117 replies to this topic

[Meep Meep]

cmndctrl, on 09 April 2021 - 05:23 PM, said:

tag

Not all streak boats have an energy hardpoint.

[Meep Meep]

cmndctrl, on 09 April 2021 - 06:20 PM, said:

i've tried running missiles without tag, do not do it esp in the state of the game rn.
multiple ecm mechs drop every match.
ecm lights will eat you alive.

sure, this puts a bunch of streak boats out of reach but, here we are

It still shouldn't be a requirement to be able to engage a mech since the other locking weapons don't have that limitation since lrm and atm will still do damage if you dumbfire them. Having a nerfed spread dumbfire option so you can't double dip them as srm doesn't break anything and allows for some measure of self defense.

[Remover of Obstacles]

https://imgur.com/a/7JBI13x

Both mechs started in range and with full lock and no movement. Start at the same time and alpha away.

Since streak mechs have to maintain lock with a very tight window now, CT should always be exposed if lock is kept.

Light is not dodging, running behind the mech, using cover, running into the enemy to break lock, no radar derp, etc. Just standing potato still.

Tried one with Flea with AMS. 3 missiles shot down from very close range (less than 50 m).

Edited by Remover of Obstacles, 10 April 2021 - 03:13 AM.

[Natural Predator]

Ignatius Audene, on 07 April 2021 - 02:56 AM, said:

Hiho. Was theoriecrafting a bit with the anounched weapon changes. Then i found the new IS streak values and rly dont understand the intended result. Just plain cooldown nerv?
IS Streaks where not rly good lately, and without a range ,heat, spread... change, that is just a plain nerv. When mostly all weapons got buffed?

I dont agree with all changes, but i simply dont understand this one. Any reasons?

Lock ons Bad, Aim is everything

[GuavaPastry]

Remover of Obstacles, on 10 April 2021 - 03:12 AM, said:

Since streak mechs have to maintain lock with a very tight window now, CT should always be exposed if lock is kept.

Someone should let the clan streak boats on scouting missions know that they should be losing duels to lights.

[PocketYoda]

GuavaPastry, on 10 April 2021 - 02:51 PM, said:

Someone should let the clan streak boats on scouting missions know that they should be losing duels to lights.

That was a long time ago.

[James Hawker]

Dogstar, on 07 April 2021 - 05:37 AM, said:

What we need is a wider lock on cone for SSRMs, when they changed the LRM lock on a while ago it also applied to streaks making it much more difficult to use them. If the lock on for streaks was the same wide angle it was before the LRM changes then they'd be relatively easy to use and make a decent weapon, but right now they're dismal as you need to buy into the sensors skill tree to make them viable

Sorry if I'm necroing this, but then I'd just slap a cheap, light SSRM2 on a missileboat and bam. Insanely wide LRM locks. They need a separate locking system from LRMs entirely.

[DUMAR]

James Hawker, on 11 April 2021 - 05:40 AM, said:

Sorry if I'm necroing this, but then I'd just slap a cheap, light SSRM2 on a missileboat and bam. Insanely wide LRM locks. They need a separate locking system from LRMs entirely.

Makes sense that weapons that need line of sight would have different guidance systems from weapons that don't need line of sight. I am sure FGM-148 has a very different guidance system from MLRS rockets

[Last Of The Brunnen-G]

Normal SRMs should be able to target lock just like the streaks do with streaks just beeing better in it. Currently SRMs can't lock at all what makes no sense, in terms of tabletop rules. Regards balancing streaks in MWO are one of the worst weapons. Due to lock on changes in the past it is difficult to target the main enemy (lights). When the lights have ECM it's even worse. In close combat it's just luck if you manage to lock on a light that circles around you. The lock on times are so long that you have a lot of facetime with your enemy. LRMs can at least keep distance but with streaks you are most likely dead by the time you fired your first volley.

What streaks would need to fill their role better would be an increased lock on cone and a decreased lock on time. The changes from the gulag will make the weapon system obsolete. You can instead just delete it from the game.

[DUMAR]

MasterBurte, on 11 April 2021 - 06:37 AM, said:

Normal SRMs should be able to target lock just like the streaks do with streaks just beeing better in it. Currently SRMs can't lock at all what makes no sense, in terms of tabletop rules. Regards balancing streaks in MWO are one of the worst weapons. Due to lock on changes in the past it is difficult to target the main enemy (lights). When the lights have ECM it's even worse. In close combat it's just luck if you manage to lock on a light that circles around you. The lock on times are so long that you have a lot of facetime with your enemy. LRMs can at least keep distance but with streaks you are most likely dead by the time you fired your first volley.

What streaks would need to fill their role better would be an increased lock on cone and a decreased lock on time. The changes from the gulag will make the weapon system obsolete. You can instead just delete it from the game.

I would like to see SSRMs have the ability to be aimed with tag lasers. They still be heavier then SRMs maybe change cooldowns on SSRMs to be a bit longer then SRMs so those have the DPS advantage with SSRMs having the lock advantage

Edited by DUMAR, 11 April 2021 - 06:47 AM.

[Dogstar]

James Hawker, on 11 April 2021 - 05:40 AM, said:

Sorry if I'm necroing this, but then I'd just slap a cheap, light SSRM2 on a missileboat and bam. Insanely wide LRM locks. They need a separate locking system from LRMs entirely.

Although I didn't state it explicitly that is what I meant - SSRMs should have a separate locking mechanism

[D A T A]

Because IS streak are too strong.
300 meters are fine and their DPS is insanely stupid, clan streaks are garbage compared to IS streaks.
An assassin 23 3stk6 or a bj2 4stk6 have by far a stupidly high amount of dps, way more than a 6stk6 clan mech.

[Mal Bolge]

D A T A, on 13 April 2021 - 07:14 AM, said:

Because IS streak are too strong.
300 meters are fine and their DPS is insanely stupid, clan streaks are garbage compared to IS streaks.
An assassin 23 3stk6 or a bj2 4stk6 have by far a stupidly high amount of dps, way more than a 6stk6 clan mech.

And yet we do not see an over representation of streak boats in matches. It's hampered by way to many counters, has a long lock-on time, and a very limited range. It is very ineffective, even against lights.

Compared to ATMs, streaks (IS or clan) are not much of a problem. And it's strange that streaks are nerfed while ATMs are buffed, because ATMs are an actual problem, specially against lights.

[Nightbird]

D A T A, on 13 April 2021 - 07:14 AM, said:

Because IS streak are too strong.
300 meters are fine and their DPS is insanely stupid, clan streaks are garbage compared to IS streaks.
An assassin 23 3stk6 or a bj2 4stk6 have by far a stupidly high amount of dps, way more than a 6stk6 clan mech.

For the same tonnage invested in streaks (using 6 Clan streak 6 versus 4 IS streak 6):

Today, IS has 7% more DPS and Clan has 50% more alpha strike and 33% more range.

After Cauldron patch, Clan has 19% more DPS, 13% more alpha strike, 33% more range

It's the kind of change that goes beyond dumb into trauma land. Who got owned so hard by IS streaks? I'm primarily a light pilot and I didn't even ask for nerfs to clan or IS lol.

Edited by Nightbird, 13 April 2021 - 10:36 AM.

[D A T A]

Nightbird, on 13 April 2021 - 10:35 AM, said:

For the same tonnage invested in streaks (using 6 Clan streak 6 versus 4 IS streak 6):

Today, IS has 7% more DPS and Clan has 50% more alpha strike and 33% more range.

After Cauldron patch, Clan has 19% more DPS, 13% more alpha strike, 33% more range

It's the kind of change that goes beyond dumb into trauma land. Who got owned so hard by IS streaks? I'm primarily a light pilot and I didn't even ask for nerfs to clan or IS lol.

your calculations are wrong, and spreading false informations

1) you are not taking into account IS better cooldown tree
2) you are not taking into account that most IS mechs that are good as STK boats have cooldown quirks (assassin 23, black jack 2 and kintaro 18 just to mention some of them, could add wolverine 7k)
3) you are not taking into account that clan streaks have less velocity, thus get farmed more by AMS, and post patch it will be super easy to run 1ams+ 0.5 tons of ammo on any light mech, in fact making vain to shoot stks at 400 meters
4) you are not taking into account that Damage per Heat on clan streaks has gone down BY A LOT, in fact reducing their potential to spam DPS, while IS mechs usually have some good heat quirks on top of the fact that IS stk 6 will have more damage per heat
In fact, if the amount of DHS contained into a mech remains the same, but the damage per heat goes down, the long term DPS potential is nerfed
I hope this helps

Edited by D A T A, 13 April 2021 - 10:58 AM.

[D A T A]

the problem is generated by the fact that we could not do a massive requirk together with this weapon pass.
i can see the streak values getting rebalanced after some quirks on the IS side are halfed

[Nightbird]

D A T A, on 13 April 2021 - 10:53 AM, said:

your calculations are wrong

1) you are not taking into account IS better cooldown tree
2) you are not taking into account that most IS mechs that are good as STK boats have cooldown quirks (assassin 23, black jack 2 and kintaro 18 just to mention some of them, could add wolverine 7k)
3) you are not taking into account that clan streaks have less velocity, thus get farmed more by AMS, and post patch it will be super easy to run 1ams+ 0.5 tons of ammo on any light mech, in fact making vain to shoot stks at 400 meters
4) you are not taking into account that Damage per Heat on clan streaks has gone down BY A LOT, in fact reducing their potential to spam DPS, while IS mechs usually have some good heat quirks on top of the fact that IS stk 6 will have more damage per heat
In fact, if the amount of DHS contained into a mech remains the same, but the damage per heat goes down, the long term DPS potential is nerfed
I hope this helps

Sighz... sure let's play calculations?
1. skill tree only adds 3.5% DPS at most, nothing next to 19% baseline weapon dps/ton difference
2. the cauldron themselves has repeatedly said quirk pass + weapon balance, so we shouldn't consider it right? Unless you want to add in the cost of Clan XL, smaller C-DHS as well?
3. Clan missiles are less vulnerable to AMS. They are 7% slower, but each missile is only 1.5 damage but the same HP, so AMS will have to shoot down 33% more missiles to stop the same amount of Clan damage than IS damage
4. 9% less DPS over time with the same number of DHS but both Clan and IS streak mechs are still able to pump out >200 damage before heat cap, not exactly much of a help versus lights. Nerfing Clan dps over time only hurts it against larger mechs, making feast or famine worse?

Edited by Nightbird, 13 April 2021 - 11:25 AM.

[Nightbird]

I'm surprised with these changes. ATMs were strong, and got nerfed, sure. Streaks are weak, almost never used, useless against everything except lights (some lights can actually 1v1 6c-streak6 mechs and win with focused DPS). When you put the Cauldron's weapon change statement against these streak changes, I can only be amused.

[D A T A]

clan streaks are not nerfed at all: they lose alpha, they lose long term DPS and they gain short term burst dps

IS streak are nerfed because they are OP as **** and can demolish with auto aim pretty much everything.....i ahve been running a lot a cyclops with 7 streak 6 fast xl......the amount of free aimbot damage you do is simply stupid.

Edited by D A T A, 13 April 2021 - 11:36 AM.

[Nightbird]

D A T A, on 13 April 2021 - 11:29 AM, said:

clan streaks are not nerfed at all: they lose alpha, they lose long term DPS and they gain short term burst dps

IS streak are nerfed because they are OP as **** and can demolish with auto aim pretty much everything.....i ahve been running a lot a cyclops with 9 streak 6 fast xl......the amount of free aimbot damage you do is simply stupid.

Sighz... it's 7 and not 9, and it's at best a troll build and not viable at all unless you have a good team to carry you.