Jump to content

Spawn Camp In Fp


54 replies to this topic

#21 katoult

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Cadet
  • 126 posts

Posted 17 April 2021 - 08:27 AM

View PostD A T A, on 17 April 2021 - 04:31 AM, said:

Atm PGI is focused on QP only unless it's a 1 button change

Well, for what might be a simply XML change:

Increase dropship time as you proposed. However, not the part where the dropships hang around after ejecting their load. But instead the time between swooping in and dropping the spawned players, preferably simply "delaying them" up there before the drop animation plays, though i would assume that's hardcoded.

As a result:
- dropships get to fire on enemies longer
- the guys stuck onboard get radar information on where below them the enemy is positioned.
- if "delayed" at the right point the guys stuck in the dropship could drop strikes on themselves too.

As justcallmeash mentions above this would however (massively) impact timing. Not just regarding narrow win/loss situations in conquest and domination that could be rectified with an XML change of increasing tickets, but also regarding Omega in Siege.

As for a "one button" change that would entice people to go to the Faction Play tab at all? That button is called Scouting Queue.

#22 justcallme A S H

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • CS 2020 Referee
  • CS 2020 Referee
  • 8,987 posts
  • LocationMelbourne, AU

Posted 17 April 2021 - 09:28 AM

View Postkatoult, on 17 April 2021 - 03:05 AM, said:

Given the respawn occurs in cycles anyway (45 seconds? something like that, never really look at the timer): If multiple players respawn in the same cycle just group those together without additional wait times and drop them in the same random spawn instead of whatever their initial spawn was.


It is 30s.

In Conquest it is not at all uncommon to have 1-2 mechs dropping every 30s on smaller maps. Reinforcements are essential.

You make that 60s+ you have lost the game. It is very simple to work out.


View PostD A T A, on 17 April 2021 - 01:20 AM, said:

And do you think it is right to let people do that?


If you are down 5-7 kills and you can make a tactical choice as a team to send fast mechs around the dropzone area (400-900m) and pick of 3-4 mechs isolated.

Absolutely it is a valid tactic to pull back a kill deficit and makes for broader gameplay.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 17 April 2021 - 09:50 AM.


#23 Nightbird

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The God of Death
  • The God of Death
  • 7,518 posts

Posted 17 April 2021 - 10:32 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 17 April 2021 - 09:28 AM, said:

If you are down 5-7 kills and you can make a tactical choice as a team to send fast mechs around the dropzone area (400-900m) and pick of 3-4 mechs isolated.

Absolutely it is a valid tactic to pull back a kill deficit and makes for broader gameplay.


It is quite common for certain units to take long range and set up at the edge of a map somewhere and refuse to move. If you don't have long range, it's impossible to push them, but if you have a few long range you can get one kill, then spawn kill that pilot and eventually the camping team learn this is a bad idea.

#24 D A T A

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Death Star
  • Death Star
  • 892 posts
  • LocationCasamassima, Bari, south Italy

Posted 17 April 2021 - 11:50 AM

View PostRJF Volkodav, on 17 April 2021 - 04:50 AM, said:

But it was quite fun Posted Image. They could bring it back for an event mb.

N O

View PostAnAnachronismAlive, on 17 April 2021 - 05:53 AM, said:

MMmh, would the addition of a tactial placement of pre-set dropzones via drop-command (some kind of a hot-drop mechanic that can place all mechs closer to the objective - even into another lane) help to make the outcome of a match a little less likely or less favourable for the defending side?

On the other hand ... manually activating pre-set drop spots on the battlegrid is likely gonna be some coding-hassle, despite placing spawn points itself not being nuclear physics I'd assume. *shrug*

In the end the maps need some overhaul and allow for more cheeky play for specialised mechs. Adressing the game modes itself is likely out of scope atm.

pgi is doing no coding and no overhaul atm in FP

longer respawn wait is pure madness, it seems futile to explain why......

#25 ccrider

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 1,466 posts

Posted 17 April 2021 - 08:54 PM

I would love to see 1 DZ for the whole team. These maps aren't so big that it makes sense to split teams up. Especially PUG teams; at least starting grouped would provide some impetus towards staying together. As it stands, if you are in a PUG drop, you are most likely doing at LEAST a 3 pronged attack. It's a good idea to at least try grouped DZ first and maybe consider other things after.

#26 Omniseed

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Kashira
  • Kashira
  • 255 posts

Posted 18 April 2021 - 12:17 AM

I saw a dropship just come hang out

#27 Rexxxxxxxxx

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • The Money Maker
  • The Money Maker
  • 69 posts

Posted 22 April 2021 - 02:35 PM

Spawn killing is a problem. Some groups use it as a strategy to wipe out one drop zone then move on to the next.
Don't have to tell you how disheartening that is to any new players caught in the carnage. Makes you not want to bother with buying that new mech pack.

Perhaps if you can make the drop ship lasers extremely powerful, to the point of vaporizing the enemy mechs. But at the same time force the friendly team members out of the drop zone if they spend too much time inside, similar to being out of bounds.

#28 justcallme A S H

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • CS 2020 Referee
  • CS 2020 Referee
  • 8,987 posts
  • LocationMelbourne, AU

Posted 22 April 2021 - 08:18 PM

New players should not be in Faction Play.

The warning screen very, very clearly stipulates this. FP should actually have been gated from the outset.

#29 slide

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,768 posts
  • LocationKersbrook South Australia

Posted 22 April 2021 - 10:25 PM

I have not played MWO for a long time (a year or more) and FP for even longer but it sounds like nothing has changed.

From my experience once one side has reached the point where they can spawn camp then the game is done and people are just farming the losing side for profit. Yes, the losing team can rally and eke out a win, but it's rare.

When it is more profitable to farm the other team, than complete the objectives it will always create a situation where the dominant side will farm the other irrespective of the preventative measures you can dream up to prevent it happening. We've seen it all before, make dropships stronger, make them weaker etc.

Maybe the actual mechanics and match scoring of the game need to be looked at instead. Changes that make people play the objectives. Ie in Siege. Count damage done to the Gens and Gun, it doesn't count though if the other team has been wiped out (other wise they'll farm first increasing profit). Similarly give the defending side a "Defender bonus" for killing or damaging mechs that are shooting the objectives. This will encourage teams to get out from under their dropships instead of waiting to be farmed.

Much of this match scoring stuff is already in the game it just needs to be looked at and balanced to make it fair and worth while doing. Ie it can't be better to just dunk the objective nor can it be better to just farm the other team.

I have literally seen players get TK'd because they were playing the objective and trying to win the game rather than farming out the other team, thus upsetting some on their own team because they were cutting into their profiteering. People will always find ways to exploit a system for maximum profit. Make profit fair and people will play the way they should.

#30 D A T A

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Death Star
  • Death Star
  • 892 posts
  • LocationCasamassima, Bari, south Italy

Posted 24 April 2021 - 06:49 AM

View Postslide, on 22 April 2021 - 10:25 PM, said:

I have not played MWO for a long time (a year or more) and FP for even longer but it sounds like nothing has changed.

From my experience once one side has reached the point where they can spawn camp then the game is done and people are just farming the losing side for profit. Yes, the losing team can rally and eke out a win, but it's rare.

When it is more profitable to farm the other team, than complete the objectives it will always create a situation where the dominant side will farm the other irrespective of the preventative measures you can dream up to prevent it happening. We've seen it all before, make dropships stronger, make them weaker etc.

Maybe the actual mechanics and match scoring of the game need to be looked at instead. Changes that make people play the objectives. Ie in Siege. Count damage done to the Gens and Gun, it doesn't count though if the other team has been wiped out (other wise they'll farm first increasing profit). Similarly give the defending side a "Defender bonus" for killing or damaging mechs that are shooting the objectives. This will encourage teams to get out from under their dropships instead of waiting to be farmed.

Much of this match scoring stuff is already in the game it just needs to be looked at and balanced to make it fair and worth while doing. Ie it can't be better to just dunk the objective nor can it be better to just farm the other team.

I have literally seen players get TK'd because they were playing the objective and trying to win the game rather than farming out the other team, thus upsetting some on their own team because they were cutting into their profiteering. People will always find ways to exploit a system for maximum profit. Make profit fair and people will play the way they should.

play the objective = PvE
this is online PvP
want to play PvE? there is MW5

#31 Spitfire 03

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • Survivor
  • 50 posts

Posted 24 April 2021 - 03:19 PM

If you don't want to get shot in your spawn, don't fight in it. Or near it. Move out. Then your next mech has time to disembark.

"Only you can prevent Spawn Camping."

~Spitfire 03

Edited by Spitfire 03, 24 April 2021 - 04:02 PM.


#32 Natural Predator

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 690 posts

Posted 26 April 2021 - 12:40 PM

Spawn camping is an unfortunate consequences of pugs vs groups. Unfortunately i was around when groups would abuse the OP drop ships to all but guarantee a win in a close match and I would hate to see that return. Its sort of a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.

Edited by Trashtier, 26 April 2021 - 12:40 PM.


#33 slide

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,768 posts
  • LocationKersbrook South Australia

Posted 26 April 2021 - 10:02 PM

View PostD A T A, on 24 April 2021 - 06:49 AM, said:

play the objective = PvE
this is online PvP
want to play PvE? there is MW5


I did play MW5. Frankly I thought it was crap and I won't be getting the expansion. So much lazy programming it wasn't funny (like mechs just magically spawning in view of the player).

If MWO and FP in particular is only about PvP then their is no point in even having objectives in the mode other than killing the other team. Is there a PvP game in existence that doesn't have a problem with spawn camping at some level? If the optimum way of winning is spawn camping then it's going to continue to happen irrespective of the conditions/protections put around the spawn point.

If you are going to continue to have objectives in the mode, then it becomes a fine line between making the objective worth doing versus farming the other team. Currently it is far more profitable to farm the other team, maybe that needs to change, but not so far as to make it just "dunk the objective" and move on.

#34 Leone

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,693 posts
  • LocationOutworlds Alliance

Posted 26 April 2021 - 10:12 PM

View PostLeone, on 09 June 2015 - 08:08 PM, said:

So, since this topic keeps popping up I'll just bring up an old response.

I play to have fun. I also enjoy brawling. I will often brawl into the enemy as far as possible before losing my mech. I have leveled my Tactics/Mech to a point where I can understand when to halt brawling and find cover, whether to cool off, reposition or wait for allies, in order to prolong the brawling I can manage with that mech, thereby getting more brawling in in one game. Sometimes I can even over come those enemies which do not retreat, and move forward to engage those that do.

Sometimes this means I end up brawling in someone else's spawn, with my closest opponent being the poor mechwarrior who just dropped into my engagement range.

I don't go into CW planning on spawn camping. I go into CW planning on brawling, and sometimes spawn camping happens.


If you make the spawns more comfy, more folk'll pitch a tent and camp in it. They need to move up and engage or they're letting thier spawns get overrun.

~Leone, Raid Leader of the Crimson Hand

Edited by Leone, 26 April 2021 - 10:15 PM.


#35 pbiggz

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Overlord
  • Overlord
  • 4,682 posts
  • LocationOutreach

Posted 05 May 2021 - 05:17 AM

I mean one solution if spawn camping is a problem is to simply *not have a spawn area to camp*.

Cordon off a large, indefensible, but also impossible to effectively attack area of both the defenders' base, and attackers dropzone. Have mechs drop one at a time from a dropship doing a long pass over the area to spread them out. The question of course would be how this would be implemented exactly.

In conventional FPS games, you typically spawn where the enemy *isnt*. Is that possible? Could the dropships strafe over an area where there are fewer enemies and drop you there, thus precluding the possibility of abusing the dropships to kill enemies AND making it impossible for the enemy team to spawn camp you?

This would of course also require the maps to be modestly embiggened.

#36 Leone

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,693 posts
  • LocationOutworlds Alliance

Posted 05 May 2021 - 08:07 AM

Which would just spread out the opfor, making it easier for a coordinated team to tear apart spread out mechs.

Seriously, 'W' for the win, 'S' for the spawn camp. Doesn't matter how you set up the map, those who choose not to engage as a team will only get hunted down individually.

The rare times I've seen a team group up and still end up camping in their spawns happened when the team grouped by their spawn.

~Leone.

#37 LordNothing

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 16,735 posts

Posted 05 May 2021 - 05:37 PM

just fill the drop ships. dropping mechs one at a time so they can be picked off by just a couple guys in the drop zone could easily be stopped just by having a full lance drop at once. it wouldnt make it go away but it would require the camping team to allocate more mechs to the job, which makes them vulnerable elsewhere.

#38 LordNothing

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 16,735 posts

Posted 05 May 2021 - 05:42 PM

View PostfeeWAIVER, on 16 April 2021 - 11:56 AM, said:

1. They need to get their new map guy on the case.
2a. They need to adjust the out of bounds rules to prevent you from entering enemy drop zones.
2b. If out of bounds is too hard, then beefing up drop ships should work.
3. They need to Long Tom people who stay in their own drop zone too long.

The goal should be to prevent spawn camping from either side. Offensively or Defensively.


ac20 turrets. that is all.

#39 Leone

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,693 posts
  • LocationOutworlds Alliance

Posted 05 May 2021 - 07:05 PM

The act of camping in their drop zone makes a team vulnerable, but dropping them in a lance at a time would give the campers a bit more of a chance. Still, I could see if backfiring if say a team split pushes and has six mechs get wiped. Then they'd only have four drop in to get overrun.

~Leone.

#40 vonJerg

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Wrath
  • Wrath
  • 329 posts

Posted 05 May 2021 - 10:31 PM

Oh, if only we could like move those that died to a safe zone to be droped, oh, wait, we already can. Never mind.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users