354 replies to this topic

[C337Skymaster]

Streak missile heat typo: Heat is listed as "per missile". If cSSRM4's are really going to have 2.4 heat "per missile", that's 9.6 heat per launcher, a more than 3x increase over their previous heat output.

[C337Skymaster]

Clay Endfield, on 17 April 2021 - 11:36 AM, said:

Snub Nose PPCs; You can fire off 3 Snubs for 30 Pinpoint damage now, and they can be used in conjunction with AC-20s for 50 Pinpoint Damage. This'll net you 50 pinpoint damage @ 270 meters every 4 seconds for 21 points of heat. Compare that to HGR, which scores 50 pinpoint damage @ 220 meters every 5 seconds (not including charge up time) for 4 points of heat. Then consider tonnage, slot consumption, and required hardpoints; you'll find that a lot more mechs can run an AC-20 and 3x S-PPCs than 2x HGR.

To top it all off, AC-20 and S-PPCs are pinpoint weapons; C-AC-20 are burst fire and therefore not considered pinpoint. It also only deals 40 damage as opposed to 50. So to reiterate former statements on this kerfuffle, AC-20 can be comboed with S-PPCs; if you were able to combo 2x AC-20s with 3x S-PPCs, you would be able to hit for 70 pinpoint damage, which is complete and utter BS. So to keep it balanced, AC-20 HSL +1 is off the table. Anyways, more mechs can run an AC-20 and 3x S-PPCs than the mechs that can run 2x AC-20s, so I'd rather have the AC-20 and 3x S-PPCs than the 2x AC-20s.

Easy: AC20/SNPPC linked Heat Scale Group. Firing more than 3 of the combined weapons will generate a heat spike higher than normal. I feel like the KGC shouldn't be penalized for running its stock loadout, but agree that a 70 dmg pinpoint alpha is ridiculous, and the KGC is exactly the 'mech that would be capable of that, negating a 'mech-specific quirk instead of a general ghost heat reduction.

That said, perhaps the Ghost Heat should remain for 'mechs such as the boom Jaeger? I dunno what kind of alpha you can get on that, now, without ghost heat, and at what heat generation rates, but it's a heck of a lot more maneuverable and accurate than a King Crab, or than any 'mech capable of carrying dual HGR, etc. Alpha size should always be balanced by how easy it is to deliver that alpha on target...

[C337Skymaster]

Clay Endfield, on 17 April 2021 - 02:51 PM, said:

...Stealth Armor not having disadvantages (it does have disadvantages, by the way, it's called fixed slot consumption, neutered sensor range, no access to shared targeting data, and passive heat build up; if it didn't have so many disadvantages, every single ECM capable mech would be running Stealth),

So the "removed disadvantage" he's talking about is that passive heat buildup. That's how Stealth Armor is supposed to work, and how it did work on heat neutral and hot maps when released, but PGI changed the heat dissipation rates, so you can dissipate heat under Stealth even on Terra Therma, now. It's just at a MUCH reduced rate from deactivated (feels like you have a solitary single heat sink, instead of ten or more doubles). Everything else is still accurate.

[Krasnopesky]

chaosshade2638, on 17 April 2021 - 04:41 PM, said:

Things that SHOULD have been added:
- removal of massive, blinding fireballs from RAC2/5 - make this happen, please? It's really really obnoxious!

Wid1046, on 17 April 2021 - 05:40 PM, said:

I fully agree regarding the need to greatly reduce the blinding fireballs from RAC2/5 (even though I love my BushRACer, Marauder, etc.), however I disagree on most of your other points.

We (The Cauldron) can't reduce/remove the fireballs from RACs, PGI would have to do that.

We did however reduce the screen shake those weapons cause!

[Antares102]

chaosshade2638, on 17 April 2021 - 04:41 PM, said:

- IS Gauss Cooldown 4.5 (from 5.0) This is unnecessary, this gives them higher DPS than Clan equivalent.

It's 4.75 not 4.5 in this patch even though 4.5 was considered.
The slighlty higher DPS is warranted considering IS Gauss is 3 more tons and one more slot than the Clan Version.

Edited by Antares102, 17 April 2021 - 10:27 PM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

C337Skymaster, on 17 April 2021 - 07:46 PM, said:

So the "removed disadvantage" he's talking about is that passive heat buildup. That's how Stealth Armor is supposed to work, and how it did work on heat neutral and hot maps when released, but PGI changed the heat dissipation rates, so you can dissipate heat under Stealth even on Terra Therma, now. It's just at a MUCH reduced rate from deactivated (feels like you have a solitary single heat sink, instead of ten or more doubles). Everything else is still accurate.

To be fair, in table top, Stealth armor is heat neutral with 10 standard heatsinks. There isn't a mech that can't sustain stealth armor indefinitely in standard play unless it's engine's been damaged. With 10 doubles, it would be accurate if your mech acted like it had 5 doubles.

[Clay Endfield]

C337Skymaster, on 17 April 2021 - 07:35 PM, said:

Easy: AC20/SNPPC linked Heat Scale Group. Firing more than 3 of the combined weapons will generate a heat spike higher than normal. I feel like the KGC shouldn't be penalized for running its stock loadout, but agree that a 70 dmg pinpoint alpha is ridiculous, and the KGC is exactly the 'mech that would be capable of that, negating a 'mech-specific quirk instead of a general ghost heat reduction.

That said, perhaps the Ghost Heat should remain for 'mechs such as the boom Jaeger? I dunno what kind of alpha you can get on that, now, without ghost heat, and at what heat generation rates, but it's a heck of a lot more maneuverable and accurate than a King Crab, or than any 'mech capable of carrying dual HGR, etc. Alpha size should always be balanced by how easy it is to deliver that alpha on target...

I kinda belong to the camp that thinks the KGC should just have a AC-20 HSL +1 quirk, and that would be that. At the same time, I'm opposed to dissimilar weapon systems sharing HSL groups, like Gauss and PPCs. I suppose a point to our favor is the fact that AC-20s are seeing a whole 1 point heat reduction, which will reduce the Ghost Heat penalty. The one thing I'd add is reduced ghost heat generation (similar to what IS ER PPCs got this update). You'd still generate ghost heat, but significantly less of it with a lower base heat and a lower ghost heat multiplier.

[PocketYoda]

Y E O N N E, on 16 April 2021 - 09:38 PM, said:

Lower, not higher. Higher = longer, lower = shorter.

Sure with all these weapons having higher damage, lower cool downs and lighter tonnage with less ghost heat.. Sure you keep telling yourself the TTK will be lower haha.

Higher = faster Lower = slower.. to me, how to push new customers away even faster..

justcallme A S H, on 16 April 2021 - 09:48 PM, said:

IS took a huge number of buffs. The TDR is going to be quite strong indeed. A poptart, ECM TDR is almost impossible to be bad especially when at a baseline TDRs are already strong.

Lights wont be overpowered at all. IS MPL is the benchmark weapon and boated constantly. All that is happen is other super super bad weapons will now be viable and a number of mechs like Kitfox, Adder and other slow lights will have a multitude of weapon options now.

TDRs get cored in seconds as they are so wide.. Maybe for tiers 1 and 2 not tiers 4 and 5. th standard light weapons in those tiers are small/micro lasers and machine guns..

Lucky Noob, on 17 April 2021 - 08:46 AM, said:

i realy love this idea

Laser colors should not change it just confuses everyone and no one know who is firing what..

Monkey Lover, on 17 April 2021 - 02:06 PM, said:

Patch made by light pilots for light pilots

Goodluck everyone else.

100% this.

Edited by MechaGnome, 18 April 2021 - 02:53 AM.

[cougurt]

MechaGnome, on 18 April 2021 - 02:36 AM, said:

Sure with all these weapons having higher damage, lower cool downs and lighter tonnage with less ghost heat.. Sure you keep telling yourself the TTK will be lower haha.

Higher = faster Lower = slower..

you're misunderstanding the term; the person you're replying to was simply correcting someone with the same misunderstanding.

TTK = time to kill, or the amount of time it takes to kill a mech. therefore a higher time to kill would mean it takes longer.

[Lucky Noob]

MechaGnome, on 18 April 2021 - 02:36 AM, said:

Laser colors should not change it just confuses everyone and no one know who is firing what..

it was about HUD Color and different HUDs and Sound Paks, not color of Lasers

[C337Skymaster]

MechaGnome, on 18 April 2021 - 02:36 AM, said:

Sure with all these weapons having higher damage, lower cool downs and lighter tonnage with less ghost heat.. Sure you keep telling yourself the TTK will be lower haha.

Higher = faster Lower = slower.. to me, how to push new customers away even faster..

TTK = Time To Kill. 1 second is lower than 2 seconds, which is lower than 3 seconds, which is lower than 5 minutes, etc.

MechaGnome, on 18 April 2021 - 02:36 AM, said:

Laser colors should not change it just confuses everyone and no one know who is firing what..

This has already been clarified: there are currently sound packs available which change the sounds in-game. However, such packs only work on YOUR version of the game (only you can hear any of it). Someone standing next to you in their own 'mech hears your weapons the same as everyone else's. Same goes for weapon or HUD colors. You want everything to be bright purple? Fine. You see EVERYONE'S weapons as bright purple. Everyone sees YOUR weapons as their standard colors, and are completely unaware of whether you've purchased a mod pack or not. Same goes when spectating you: they see everything in your 'mech the way they see their own. Only you can see your mods.

[C337Skymaster]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 17 April 2021 - 11:40 PM, said:

To be fair, in table top, Stealth armor is heat neutral with 10 standard heatsinks. There isn't a mech that can't sustain stealth armor indefinitely in standard play unless it's engine's been damaged. With 10 doubles, it would be accurate if your mech acted like it had 5 doubles.

Really? Oh, I guess I didn't know that. I'm taking a Mass Effect approach to the mechanic, where you're "hidden" by not releasing any heat from your 'mech (although seeing it in practice, it does make sense that it's important to release just as much heat as the background, or else you stand out as too cold instead of too hot ).

EDIT: speaking of "seeing it in practice", that IS how PGI coded it to appear in heat vision: Stealth 'mechs are black-cold, no matter the environment, making them relatively easy to see and shoot on Terra or Caustic.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 18 April 2021 - 05:41 AM.

[pattonesque]

MechaGnome, on 18 April 2021 - 02:36 AM, said:

Sure with all these weapons having higher damage, lower cool downs and lighter tonnage with less ghost heat.. Sure you keep telling yourself the TTK will be lower haha.

Higher = faster Lower = slower.. to me, how to push new customers away even faster..

you're misunderstanding the term, but also you know for a fact that the weapon pass is going to be followed by mobility, quirks, and rescale, all of which are designed to increase TTK. So why pretend this is happening in isolation?

[denAirwalkerrr]

pattonesque, on 18 April 2021 - 05:27 AM, said:

you're misunderstanding the term, but also you know for a fact that the weapon pass is going to be followed by mobility, quirks, and rescale, all of which are designed to increase TTK. So why pretend this is happening in isolation?

Because it fits his narrative when he doesn't even know what higher/lower TTK means.

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 18 April 2021 - 05:55 AM.

[C337Skymaster]

Clay Endfield, on 18 April 2021 - 12:02 AM, said:

I kinda belong to the camp that thinks the KGC should just have a AC-20 HSL +1 quirk, and that would be that. At the same time, I'm opposed to dissimilar weapon systems sharing HSL groups, like Gauss and PPCs. I suppose a point to our favor is the fact that AC-20s are seeing a whole 1 point heat reduction, which will reduce the Ghost Heat penalty. The one thing I'd add is reduced ghost heat generation (similar to what IS ER PPCs got this update). You'd still generate ghost heat, but significantly less of it with a lower base heat and a lower ghost heat multiplier.

Honestly, even with the current ghost heat, a King Crab can fire two AC20's at the same time and pretty much get away with it. They just have a hard time adding anything else to the salvo. I'm in a similar boat: I want a HSL quirk for the King Crab because Dual AC20's is literally "its thing", and whether it can absorb the ghost heat or not is beside the point, for me. But at the same time, I'll acknowledge the above point of how that can be abused, and I'd like some way of granting the KGC its stock build while simultaneously discouraging that sort of OP boating (which the KGC will be the prime candidate for, to be sure).

To be honest, I'm even a bit crazier: I looked at the IS Gauss lineup limit being 2, 2, and 2, and thought it should really be 1, 2, and 3 for Heavy, Standard, and Light respectively. That gives you an Alpha of 25, 30, and 24, and you can tweak DPS from there. It'd give all those Cataphracts a reason for being, again. HGR was even supposed to knock a Fafnir on its butt from the recoil if it shot both at once, and that 'mech was specifically designed around the weapon.

On top of that, I look at the inherent inaccuracy of 'mechs and weapon systems in the books and on TT, and it makes me want to remove convergence to simulate it. No artificial "cone of fire", or anything dependent on RNG which is hard to predict (even though that would be even more accurate to the Lore). Deleting Convergence makes every weapon follow a predictable path that can be learned, while at the same time dramatically reducing pinpoint damage capability. Additional benefits to this are when you're leading a target against variable-distance terrain, your weapon path will remain consistent, and won't be wobbling back and forth based on the convergence point under the reticle. The last benefit is mostly in response to the prevalence of invisible walls in cities: when you're corner-peeking through an invisible wall, convergence will make your weapons shoot sideways to hit the point 10m in front of you. Without convergence, that same weapon would travel straight downrange, towards the target you were trying to aim at. I know it kinda goes backwards on "King Crabs can fire both AC/20's at once", but if they do fire both at a wide target, or into a crowd of 'mechs, or if the pilot is good at twisting quickly to fire one, then the other, it won't suffer a heat penalty for exercising that level of skill. (Honestly, removing convergence should allow for the removal of Ghost Heat as a mechanic, entirely, except maybe on Streaks and LRMs, which can otherwise have their spreads increased accordingly).

Edited by C337Skymaster, 18 April 2021 - 07:37 PM.

[GaelicWolf]

One aspect of these changes that I am concerned about, is after the patch has had time to adjust, and data has been compiled, will we go through another patch of weapon changes, then another, then another. I mean when will you guys call it quits? There will always be SOMETHING that needs tweeking, its the nature of the game.

As stated before, you can never make everyone happy.

But how long are we going to have to wait for the second set of proposed changes(scale and mobility)?

[SPNKRGrenth]

"It is worth noting that the changes in this patch are based on values and stats of weapons and equipment prior to the March 2021 patch."

How are so many grown people missing this part? Does it need to be in all caps? Bolded and underlined? Posted as its own standalone sentence At the top, middle, and bottom of the patch notes?

The weapon balance part of the March patch is being fully reverted, reversed, undone, removed, deleted, ect ect. Whatever you want to call it.

So those of you thinking that the PPC and Guass damage buffs and cooldown nerfs from last month are being kept, no they aren't.

Damage and cooldown numbers will be:

Light PPC: 5 damage. 3 second cooldown
PPC: 10 damage. 4 second cooldown
Snubnose PPC:10 damage. 4 second cooldown
ER PPC: 10 damage. 4 second cooldown
Heavy PPC: 15 damage. 5 second cooldown

Clan ER PPC: 10 damage + 5 splash damage. 5 second cooldown

Light Guass: 10 damage. 3.5 second cooldown
Guass: 15 damage. 4.75 second cooldown
Heavy Guass: 25 damage. 5 second cooldown

Clan Guass: 15 damage. 5 second cooldown


Any questions on that?

Edited by SPNKRGrenth, 18 April 2021 - 07:18 AM.

[denAirwalkerrr]

GaelicWolf, on 18 April 2021 - 06:34 AM, said:

One aspect of these changes that I am concerned about, is after the patch has had time to adjust, and data has been compiled, will we go through another patch of weapon changes, then another, then another. I mean when will you guys call it quits? There will always be SOMETHING that needs tweeking, its the nature of the game.

As stated before, you can never make everyone happy.

But how long are we going to have to wait for the second set of proposed changes(scale and mobility)?

They will be trying to do as much as possible each month. They are already working on mobility numbers.

[Y E O N N E]

MechaGnome, on 18 April 2021 - 02:36 AM, said:

Sure with all these weapons having higher damage, lower cool downs and lighter tonnage with less ghost heat.. Sure you keep telling yourself the TTK will be lower haha.

Higher = faster Lower = slower.. to me, how to push new customers away even faster..

I'm not commenting on what the TTK will be like in the game after the patch, I'm commenting on how you have the term assignments reversed in your head and are flatly wrong in how you are using them.

Higher TTK means Longer TTK. Look at the words: Time To Kill. How the actual heck can High = short? High Time = Long Time. LowTime = short time.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

MechWarrior2150582, on 17 April 2021 - 09:37 AM, said:

10000% Agreed!!! No reason to come back and waste your money. There is early and mid game, but no end-game. End-game is about collecting new colors and new cockpit items... it is so lame...

What is more, what could be improved:

• Pilot skill rating needs to be redesigned, we need more levels just to see the goal for in game endless grinding, and see perks for having higher skill rating (match making is not enough),
  
• Lack of end game achievements and other goals that would benefit end-game and grinding players time spent in the game,
  
• Skill tree (91/91) - lack of unique skills that would benefit having high “pilot skill raring” or allow to have unique builds. Skill tree – 90% of players have the same set of skills. When applaying skill there there is no wondering and sacrifice related to planning/builds etc.
  
• Mech lab – customizing the mech could be improved in an easy way, such as:

1. armor plates (equivalent to heatsinks) - slots and weight dependent but adds armor,

2. not used tonnage dependent bonuses like higher mech speed, better cooling etc.
3. new weapons (thunder bolt missile, long tom cannon, heavy flamer, add new weapons variants with slighty different stats to already existing weapons like GR(clan), GR1(clan), GR2(clan) - each with different stats to better customize your mech).

Do not touch existing weapons, just add new weapons and/or add already existing weapons "new variants" !! By doing that you will not destroy the game existing ballance but still you will allow for more builds and customization ! Easy and not controversial Right now what you have done to GR(clan) is just a joke.... I AM NOT GOING BACK TO PLAY THIS GAME. I have played for many years and spent tons of USD... but no more

You’re saying you’d rather pass on low hanging fruit and would rather have things that require significant devtime from PGI. Well duh, and I want a Lambo. PGI’s MWO team is still a skeleton crew at this point.

And for the record, this patch is not controversial. Pissing off a small minority of people doesn’t make something controversial. This patch has more community approval, in-fact, than any patch I’ve ever seen PGI do. For gods sake I can’t for the life of me understand why you’d rather so many weapons just continue to suck and waste away while just adding more junk to the pile.