354 replies to this topic

[C337Skymaster]

Mal Nilsum, on 24 April 2021 - 01:06 PM, said:

Ok, so here's the big question: Using your own example, if streaks were superior weapons, they would be used by everyone. Now since they are not used by everyone, and in fact they are rarely seen at all, we can draw the conclusion that they are inferior weapons. And since they are inferior weapons, given that they are not used by everyone, as per your example, why then make them out to be superior weapons that needs to be toned down?

To clarify: when it is claimed that streaks insta-gib lights and mediums, that they delete mechs, I take that to mean that they are superior. Personally I have never been able to insta-gib a light with streaks, and I have tried to replicate those claims both in live matches, and in the testing grounds. I even used a small laser to strip off all armor of the jenner, so that only structure remained. And even then, I needed 3 volleys of 3xSSRM6 on an assassin to kill it. Now I can only take your word that it is possible to insta-kill a light in one salvo, but so far I haven't been able to do it.

Well, as much as we're on the same side regarding Streak performance and how uncommon they are to see, I would suggest you redo your test with either a Stormcrow with 5xSSRM6's, or a Huntsman with 6xSSRM6's. (Stormcrow can take the small laser in the head, Huntsman can take it in one of the side torsos alongside a streak launcher). I don't believe the IS Streaks suffered a damage decrease, only a cooldown increase. Clan Streaks (which can be boated in much larger numbers) suffered the damage decrease with a corresponding cooldown decrease to try and increase the overall DPS at the expense of the up-front Alpha). My beef with the change is that DPS often doesn't matter, because you only get one shot to begin with. Also, it irks me on an OCD level when the damage and heat values deviate from the record sheets.

[Mal Bolge]

Y E O N N E, on 24 April 2021 - 01:23 PM, said:

Insta-gib has always been convenient hyperbole that is only somewhat true for Locusts, Fleas, and Piranhas, but they are effective enough that they will take most Lights out of a fight either through deterrence or crippling. Clan Streaks were good enough at this task to see use in competitive circles consistently and to the point where they were banned from use in certain formats. If you don't kill them, you are certainly removing limbs and the speed/firepower that go with them. Even Mediums like the Blackjack or Arctic Wolf get quickly gimped by Streaks to the arms.

Ok, that's fair. That basically answers my question. I don't really mind the nerf, it was just the reasoning behind it that didn't make sense to me.

[SockSlayer]

ER Micro Laser (Clan):

• Heat penalty is removed

Now I would loved to see that done with flamers, because they already have exponential heat generation, players have to either quit firing anyway or risk shutdown.

Edited by SockSlayer, 25 April 2021 - 12:58 PM.

[Big-G]

I approve this patch... much better than the stupid March one...

[ManicWK9]

nice patch so far.. it seems it should be possible to combine 2 Snubnose PPCs and a Heavy Gauss Rifle and shoot them together without ghost heat.. especially on the King Crab Kaiju.. because with the quirks they are perfect matching cooldown, velocity and range..

[Voice of Kerensky]

I played for a while over the weekend.
In general, since the introduction of this patch, I have had about one and a half dozen battles in the Tourmaline Desert. And I'm pretty sure the spawning points on this map are not fixed.

Artillery strike is now almost useless.

[Arkhangel]

Voice of Kerensky, on 25 April 2021 - 05:45 PM, said:

I played for a while over the weekend.
In general, since the introduction of this patch, I have had about one and a half dozen battles in the Tourmaline Desert. And I'm pretty sure the spawning points on this map are not fixed.

Artillery strike is now almost useless.

No, it just means you actually have to wait for the opportune moment, rather than just bombing someone's spawn point. Don't claim something's useless just because your opponents are smarter than you.

[C337Skymaster]

Arkhangel, on 25 April 2021 - 06:17 PM, said:

No, it just means you actually have to wait for the opportune moment, rather than just bombing someone's spawn point. Don't claim something's useless just because your opponents are smarter than you.

Eh, I already found strikes to be hard to aim and very feast-or-famine as far as efficacy. Air Strikes were nerfed when they were reduced from 10 bombs to 6. Artillery has been nerfed now that it's been reduced from 150 damage over 10 shells to 100 damage over 20 shells. (Though to be honest, I always thought it did more than that).

EDIT: Unless the "more" is splash damage?

Edited by C337Skymaster, 25 April 2021 - 06:46 PM.

[Voice of Kerensky]

Arkhangel, on 25 April 2021 - 06:17 PM, said:

No, it just means you actually have to wait for the opportune moment, rather than just bombing someone's spawn point. Don't claim something's useless just because your opponents are smarter than you.

Of course. I am far from seasoned masters. In five years of playing, I never learned how to drop artillery, and I don't understand anything about it.

[justcallme A S H]

After playing I felt strikes were a LOT better.

The fact they do not instant-delete mechs, even heavies, is a good change. You no longer win games by taking off 20-40% of the half the enemies mechs with a single mouse click.

Over time if teams/players sit in strikes it will punish them as it should for being very static. That was certainly noticeable and it will remove mechs that try to entrench themselves in a static position.

[Thornhold]

justcallme A S H, on 25 April 2021 - 07:44 PM, said:

After playing I felt strikes were a LOT better.

The fact they do not instant-delete mechs, even heavies, is a good change. You no longer win games by taking off 20-40% of the half the enemies mechs with a single mouse click.

Over time if teams/players sit in strikes it will punish them as it should for being very static. That was certainly noticeable and it will remove mechs that try to entrench themselves in a static position.

Agreed. Strikes are no more effective if you drop them on 1-3 mechs like me & the other potatoes used to do LOL

But they got more effective than before if you drop them on a group of 5+ mechs. Which is they're actually supposed to be used for

[Ruediger Steiner]

Voice of Kerensky, on 25 April 2021 - 05:45 PM, said:

Artillery strike is now almost useless.

And let us all thank Daeron, Matt and Cauldron for this.
It´s called Mechwarrior Online, not Artillery Online.
In my opinion Artillery can be completly removed. Or just be used by light mechs with a special equipment.

[Bowelhacker]

Y E O N N E, on 24 April 2021 - 07:54 AM, said:

Level of effort matters. If Weapon A requires more and more practiced skills to wield than Weapon B with the same efficacy, why would anybody bother to play with Weapon A except to be contrarian?

Sounds like you're describing half of the players in the game...

Edited by Bowelhacker, 25 April 2021 - 10:32 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Y E O N N E, on 24 April 2021 - 12:52 PM, said:

Maybe, but the level of effort required to kill a Light with a PPC or similar is still higher or Streaks would not have become the de facto anti-Light weapon.

I think it's an issue of lights' reliance of evasion. The skill of pilot vs skill of shooter, but realistically it's the shooter's shortcoming in the pug than the pilot's ability to evade. The paper-thin armor of lights inevitably mean that all weapons are basically anti-light, Streaks simply rise up because they can deliver their damage better.

Maybe it would be better solved if the light mechs are just generally larger and compensate with armor and structure quirks, the Urbanmech treatment. But I digress.

[C337Skymaster]

Wishmast3r, on 25 April 2021 - 10:28 PM, said:

And let us all thank Daeron, Matt and Cauldron for this.
It´s called Mechwarrior Online, not Artillery Online.
In my opinion Artillery can be completly removed. Or just be used by light mechs with a special equipment.

You mean like Target Acquisition Gear?

[Wid1046]

Wishmast3r, on 25 April 2021 - 10:28 PM, said:

And let us all thank Daeron, Matt and Cauldron for this.
It´s called Mechwarrior Online, not Artillery Online.
In my opinion Artillery can be completly removed. Or just be used by light mechs with a special equipment.

I think that making them exclusive to lights with special equipment would be a great way of balancing them. Currently there is no downside to picking up free unskilled damage (no critical slots or tonnage required).

I also think that coolant shots should be replaced with coolant pods: https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Coolant_Pod. This would also also make it so that there is a cost to the burst of cooling: it will cost you weight and a slot. (The one ton requirement would likely be better to drop to 0.5 tons however).

Edited by Wid1046, 26 April 2021 - 06:08 AM.

[MechB Kotare]

The patch is good, thanks for all the efforts, I really do appreciate it. Feels a lot more balanced, it opens up more options, thats for sure.

Havent played all the weapons, but those i have played were good and fun to use. Except cErll. While i do understand the motives behind, i wish its ridiculous and utterly useless extreme long range got nerfed for the sake of 0.15s beam duration decrease. I wouldn't even mind heat increase/damage decrease in return. The weapon is still useless (imo) at short to medium range, which makes it very situational weapon system. Especially when you dont know what map gets picked up by voting players.

[Ruediger Steiner]

C337Skymaster, on 26 April 2021 - 05:05 AM, said:

You mean like Target Acquisition Gear?

[C337Skymaster]

MechB Kotare, on 26 April 2021 - 06:52 AM, said:

The patch is good, thanks for all the efforts, I really do appreciate it. Feels a lot more balanced, it opens up more options, thats for sure.

Havent played all the weapons, but those i have played were good and fun to use. Except cErll. While i do understand the motives behind, i wish its ridiculous and utterly useless extreme long range got nerfed for the sake of 0.15s beam duration decrease. I wouldn't even mind heat increase/damage decrease in return. The weapon is still useless (imo) at short to medium range, which makes it very situational weapon system. Especially when you dont know what map gets picked up by voting players.

Technically the weapon is supposed to run hotter for less damage (10/12 dmg/heat), so its current status is a buff, already.

As for the voting thing: bring weapons for combat at all ranges, and you'll always have something to use.

[MarsThunder]

Wid1046, on 26 April 2021 - 06:05 AM, said:

I think that making them exclusive to lights with special equipment would be a great way of balancing them.

Just to repeat myself: may be the right way is to directly implement warfield role (brawler, scouts, etc) and give the special positive and negative quirks to every role?