354 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

InnerSphereNews, on 16 April 2021 - 07:05 PM, said:

By the way, we'll be announcing the new Clan Booster Pack soon, and we think you're going to love it!

How soon?

[martian]

Gas Guzzler, on 26 April 2021 - 11:02 AM, said:

[/b][/b][/b][/b][/b]

How soon?

In 60-90 days?

[Martaloc]

Very good so far but need some adjustment:
LB20X AC's on both side ,on the the clans has the same speed as the LB10X version, on the IS side much more broken ,1330 velocity(lol) on the LB20X while the LB10X has 1100 velocity(?) , bring both back to the other 20 cannons,800-900 velocity max

clan ER large laser Reduce the burn time to 1,25 ; much needed help cuz IS got buffed again,

ATM's Cant we do some compromise? Remove the minimum range and in the same time forget the closequarter damage too,
So 0-600 meters 2 dmg/missile, 601-1100 meters 1dmg/missile and clans have one more fun weaponsystem

clan heatgens : buff to them 0,75 same as IS, considering the IS has almost on all mech heatquirks and this was the original value before PGI nerfed the clans into the ground, plus clans are still hotter and have zero heatquirks, yes some omnipod sets have very mediocre -2,5%- -5 % heatquirks but when you remove one setpiece you lost even that, non omnimechs have zero quirks in generall, so yeah my sad Supernova collections.................

[Cluster Fox]

I've seen a long anticipated increase in weapon variety.

Nice patch PGI and the Cauldron !

[Wid1046]

justcallme A S H, on 25 April 2021 - 07:44 PM, said:

After playing I felt strikes were a LOT better.

The fact they do not instant-delete mechs, even heavies, is a good change. You no longer win games by taking off 20-40% of the half the enemies mechs with a single mouse click.

Over time if teams/players sit in strikes it will punish them as it should for being very static. That was certainly noticeable and it will remove mechs that try to entrench themselves in a static position.

It is definitely an improvement. One of the unintended consequences though was that there is now very little downtime between the end of one artillery strike and the beginning of the next. Some groups are taking advantage of this to spam unending artillery strikes where you move out of one to have your path blocked by another. Each individual strike is better than before, but the global cooldown between strikes should be increased.

Edited by Wid1046, 27 April 2021 - 04:41 AM.

[Krasnopesky]

Wid1046, on 27 April 2021 - 04:40 AM, said:

It is definitely an improvement. One of the unintended consequences though was that there is now very little downtime between the end of one artillery strike and the beginning of the next. Some groups are taking advantage of this to spam unending artillery strikes where you move out of one to have your path blocked by another. Each individual strike is better than before, but the global cooldown between strikes should be increased.

This mechanic was intended. The Goal for Artillery Strikes is for them to be used as an area denial tool, where it is only punishing if you decide to stay in the strike(s) for the entire duration rather than getting an unlucky hit and losing 30% of your assault Mechs armour.

Overall each strike has less damage potential than they previously did despite the increased duration.

[Wid1046]

Krasnopesky, on 27 April 2021 - 07:09 AM, said:

This mechanic was intended. The Goal for Artillery Strikes is for them to be used as an area denial tool, where it is only punishing if you decide to stay in the strike(s) for the entire duration rather than getting an unlucky hit and losing 30% of your assault Mechs armour.

Overall each strike has less damage potential than they previously did despite the increased duration.

Fair enough if it is intended. It is annoying to have one path blocked and the moment it ends have the alternate path blocked, but if the goal is to break up teams, I guess that works.

Is this intended to stop nascar? I haven't seen that particular tactic happen yet, but it could work. Before we only had to wait three seconds before we could pass through an area that the enemy team was trying to deny access to, but now it can be kept up indefinitely. Or the position of the blockage can shift at the end of the first strike to prevent the rest of your team from taking the route that the first group that passed through.

The decrease in damage per second is certainly an improvement and I'd rather keep this change as is than revert back to what it was. I just wasn't sure that not having a break in the strikes was intended.

Edited by Wid1046, 27 April 2021 - 08:49 AM.

[MechB Kotare]

C337Skymaster, on 26 April 2021 - 09:02 AM, said:

Technically the weapon is supposed to run hotter for less damage (10/12 dmg/heat), so its current status is a buff, already.

As for the voting thing: bring weapons for combat at all ranges, and you'll always have something to use.

Its not about having something to use, its about having something viable to use. Also im not asking for more cerll buffs, im asking for reversing the changes to pre patch stats, and then buffing it anew, by reducing its burn time.

[C337Skymaster]

MechB Kotare, on 27 April 2021 - 08:32 AM, said:

Its not about having something to use, its about having something viable to use. Also im not asking for more cerll buffs, im asking for reversing the changes to pre patch stats, and then buffing it anew, by reducing its burn time.

There are very few 'mechs that are designed solely around the ERLL (Supernova being one). The vast majority of 'mechs that utilize the ERLL bring backup weapons for combat at shorter ranges (DWF brings MPL, Mad Cat brings ERMLs, MPL, and MG's, etc). Boating is more of a PC game thing, and is a thing to be discouraged whenever possible.

[Brauer]

C337Skymaster, on 27 April 2021 - 08:57 AM, said:

There are very few 'mechs that are designed solely around the ERLL (Supernova being one). The vast majority of 'mechs that utilize the ERLL bring backup weapons for combat at shorter ranges (DWF brings MPL, Mad Cat brings ERMLs, MPL, and MG's, etc). Boating is more of a PC game thing, and is a thing to be discouraged whenever possible.

Boating has always been the way in Mechwarrior and even in Battletech based games in general.

[C337Skymaster]

Brauer, on 27 April 2021 - 09:18 AM, said:

Boating has always been the way in Mechwarrior and even in Battletech based games in general.

Mechwarrior, yes. BT in general? Not that I've seen. TT builds are very rarely dedicated boats (not unheard of, but rare), and all of the MechCommander and Battletech games I've seen/played run mixed loadouts. Frequently, this is due to limited salvage or market availability, but it also covers any unexpected combat situations that may arise during a campaign, when you don't know what the map will be like, or what type of combat is coming up.

And whether it's "the way" or not, it's still to be discouraged. Boating generally pushes a dedicated Meta which winds up taking over the entire game. Mixed loadouts provide for much greater flexibility in battle.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 27 April 2021 - 09:35 AM.

[CrimsonEye]

Good day, I'm very confuse with your patch notes, on one end your side mention light ppcs does not have minimum range, but during the game play and in game description were showing a different thing. Mind to explain?



PS: your forums prevent me to upload image to show the proof, why such a simple function has to be so difficult for us to do? can't just upload a photo onto it?

https://ibb.co/PGFypVy
https://ibb.co/FH30GGp

Edited by CrimsonEye, 27 April 2021 - 09:46 AM.

[Brauer]

C337Skymaster, on 27 April 2021 - 09:33 AM, said:

Mechwarrior, yes. BT in general? Not that I've seen. TT builds are very rarely dedicated boats (not unheard of, but rare), and all of the MechCommander and Battletech games I've seen/played run mixed loadouts. Frequently, this is due to limited salvage or market availability, but it also covers any unexpected combat situations that may arise during a campaign, when you don't know what the map will be like, or what type of combat is coming up.

And whether it's "the way" or not, it's still to be discouraged. Boating generally pushes a dedicated Meta which winds up taking over the entire game. Mixed loadouts provide for much greater flexibility in battle.

Mixed loadouts just mean you're ineffective at any range. Boating synergistic weapons means you have a distinct playstyle that you can implement and use to your advantage. I've played MW2, both Mechcommanders, MW4, HBS BT, MWO, and MW5. In all of those boating is the way to go. Within a lance you might have mechs for specific roles in some of those, say in HBS Battletech, but having kitchen sink builds is objectively inferior.

Edited by Brauer, 27 April 2021 - 02:05 PM.

[martian]

CrimsonEye, on 27 April 2021 - 09:45 AM, said:

Good day, I'm very confuse with your patch notes, on one end your side mention light ppcs does not have minimum range, but during the game play and in game description were showing a different thing. Mind to explain?

The in-game description is obsolete. Light PPCs really have no minimum range now.

CrimsonEye, on 27 April 2021 - 09:45 AM, said:

PS: your forums prevent me to upload image to show the proof, why such a simple function has to be so difficult for us to do? can't just upload a photo onto it?

https://ibb.co/PGFypVy
https://ibb.co/FH30GGp

Like this?



Just use those links from your own web image hosting.

[MechB Kotare]

C337Skymaster, on 27 April 2021 - 08:57 AM, said:

There are very few 'mechs that are designed solely around the ERLL (Supernova being one). The vast majority of 'mechs that utilize the ERLL bring backup weapons for combat at shorter ranges (DWF brings MPL, Mad Cat brings ERMLs, MPL, and MG's, etc). Boating is more of a PC game thing, and is a thing to be discouraged whenever possible.

There are more mechs in bt that boat one weapon system, i dont know them all, but rifleman IIc is perfect example of what i am saying.

Atm fully range skilled clpl has like 650m + optimal range, does 13 damage, in 1s. It perfectly covers optimal range of cerll, performs even better imo.

Lets say i want laser vomit build. You are saying, bring more weapon systems to combine with cErll, im saying ill just combine other weapon systems with clpl ( or cHvyL). Due to mwo map designs, i have no reason to take cell over clpl orchvyl, unless i want to shoot enemy from 1500m+, which is what makes it useless harrasing weapon. i cant even use its full potential, unless i have wide open area, and even so, i have to be extremely far from main combat, hoping lights wont spot me.

Dont get me wrong, cerll should suck hard at close range, but why should it suck at its optimal long range due to long burn time. Its not cHvyL that does 18 damage.

[C337Skymaster]

Brauer, on 27 April 2021 - 11:10 AM, said:

Mixed loadouts just mean you're ineffective at any range. Boating synergistic weapons means you have a distinct playstyle that you can implement and use to your advantage. I've played MW2, both Mechcommanders, MW4, HBS BT, MWO, and MW5. In all of those boating is the way to go. Within a lance you might have mechs for specific roles I some of those, say in HBS Battletech, but having kitchen sink builds is objectively inferior.

I can't tell you how many times having a single LRM system on a brawling 'mech has allowed me to continue to participate in the game when I am unable to get within range of the rest of my weapon systems, rather than just standing around waiting for my turn to fight. That's literally THE reason the stock Atlas has a LRM system, when EVERY other weapon on the 'mech has the exact same 270m range. It allows the 'mech to continue to participate, even when out of position (usually due to its speed, or lack thereof). Even the LRM 10 on the Dire Wolf and Warhawk sees a rather high amount of use while maneuvering to position. On the DWF, the ERLL's are used at range, but once the range closes, the MPL's and UAC/5's are much better suited to close-range, high-intensity combat, where the ERLL's run too hot.

MechB Kotare, on 27 April 2021 - 12:50 PM, said:

There are more mechs in bt that boat one weapon system, i dont know them all, but rifleman IIc is perfect example of what i am saying.

Atm fully range skilled clpl has like 650m + optimal range, does 13 damage, in 1s. It perfectly covers optimal range of cerll, performs even better imo.

Lets say i want laser vomit build. You are saying, bring more weapon systems to combine with cErll, im saying ill just combine other weapon systems with clpl ( or cHvyL). Due to mwo map designs, i have no reason to take cell over clpl orchvyl, unless i want to shoot enemy from 1500m+, which is what makes it useless harrasing weapon. i cant even use its full potential, unless i have wide open area, and even so, i have to be extremely far from main combat, hoping lights wont spot me.

Dont get me wrong, cerll should suck hard at close range, but why should it suck at its optimal long range due to long burn time. Its not cHvyL that does 18 damage.

And yes, a lot of the newer BT loadouts run as boats. Supernova, Rifleman IIC, most of the Nova Cats, etc. But even with the Nova Cats, the missile boat has two backup lasers, the HLL boat has a backup LBX/10, etc. Heck, even the Rifleman IIC has a backup ERSL for anti-infantry work (not applicable in MWO, I know, but that's what that weapon would be for). A large pulse laser is severe overkill against infantry.

As for why the Clan ERLL sucks so bad at extreme range: the IS ERLL boats complained that they were getting out-traded, so now the power "balance" runs the other way: it's really hard for a Clan energy sniper to stand up to a Battlemaster or Stalker.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 27 April 2021 - 01:25 PM.

[Brauer]

C337Skymaster, on 27 April 2021 - 01:25 PM, said:

I can't tell you how many times having a single LRM system on a brawling 'mech has allowed me to continue to participate in the game when I am unable to get within range of the rest of my weapon systems, rather than just standing around waiting for my turn to fight. That's literally THE reason the stock Atlas has a LRM system, when EVERY other weapon on the 'mech has the exact same 270m range. It allows the 'mech to continue to participate, even when out of position (usually due to its speed, or lack thereof). Even the LRM 10 on the Dire Wolf and Warhawk sees a rather high amount of use while maneuvering to position. On the DWF, the ERLL's are used at range, but once the range closes, the MPL's and UAC/5's are much better suited to close-range, high-intensity combat, where the ERLL's run too hot.

I may not be able to tell you how many times you got some chip damage using a single lrm launcher on a brawler, but I can tell you that the lrm launcher made that brawler worse every single time. A true dedicated brawler would have a substantial advantage over yours. A single LRM launcher on an Atlas is also wasted tonnage and a wasted hardpoint. A single lrm10 on a DWF or WHK also makes it less efficient. The WHK Prime heatcaps, so it's much better to have more DHS to use its peeps rather than waste tonnage and heat on a negligible amount of chip damage from a lrm10. You don't have to run good builds with synergistic weapon systems, but you're just wrong about kitchen sink builds being better.

[Pz_DC]

By the way - I hope there is someone else except me who's remember that we have FLAMERS in game, and it need to be effective too. For now it's no way to be close to same weight weapons, and even more - it's need to be effective alone, coz "flamer boat"... sounds worse then "lrm boat"

[YueFei]

C337Skymaster, on 27 April 2021 - 01:25 PM, said:

I can't tell you how many times having a single LRM system on a brawling 'mech has allowed me to continue to participate in the game when I am unable to get within range of the rest of my weapon systems, rather than just standing around waiting for my turn to fight.

While having some LRMs allows you get up some shots in circumstances/positioning where you'd otherwise not have any shot at all, the better approach is to position yourself better so that you can create your own shots more often.

[Clay Endfield]

I have been testing new builds extensively, Loving pretty much every single change. Bringing back sniping, laser vomit, and brawling simultaneously has dramatically improved the fun factor; hopefully the chaos meta we're in right now persists until map changes can cement the validity of a role driven meta instead of ye old weapon driven meta.

Thus far, only two weapon types have come across as a bit lackluster in their changes: Heavy Medium Lasers & IS ER PPCs.

Heavy Medium Lasers are supposed to fulfill the role of a Alpha Strike weapon system, but at the end of the day, players choose them over MPLs and ER MLs for their low weight and HSL hardpoint caps. We pick them not because they're competitive compared to other ML options, but because they are optimal on mechs anemic for energy hardpoints/weight.

And 6 MPLs now cap out at 42 damage, pretty well relegating HMLs as obsolete in their intended role as Alpha Strike weapons on mechs that have sufficient hardpoint/tonnage to cap the MPL HSL limit. Given that MPLs have identical range and also function as DPS weapons, it is well worth the tonnage and hardpoint cost of boating MPLs over HMLs.

I think HMLs need to have +1 damage (11 total) and less heat gen to actually be considered viable options. As it stands, they're niche weapons that keep the mechs that run them suboptimal.

IS ER-PPCs: Fantastic when used with Light Gauss; terrible when used by themselves. Seriously, these things are practically the worst PPCs now. They boast the lowest DPS/Damage by heat group, and the worst Damage per heat of all PPCs. Compared to Clan ER PPCs, these are flat garbage. Mechanically, it's suggested that they're designed for a pinpoint DPS advantage over Clan ER PPCs, but they're still too hot to actually maintain sustained pinpoint DPS. Thanks to the HSL scaling and Heat changes for all other IS PPCs, these guys got nixed as viable options on lower tonnage mechs. At this rate, IS ER PPCs need even more heat gen reduction, and maybe even a range increase (880 meters base perhaps?) to stand out.

Otherwise, all other changes have been feeling brilliant, and the chaos meta is a good sign of balance; if that many variations of builds feel viable to the community, then MWO's development is on the right track.

Edited by Clay Endfield, 28 April 2021 - 12:33 PM.