259 replies to this topic

[justcallme A S H]

NEWS HOT FROM THE BUBBLING CAULDRON OF TOIL AND TROUBLE

Although it is basically us locking Navid A1 in your mums basement and poaching him 24hrs a day... lol....

We are now a few days into the gameplay since once of the larger balance patches in MWO history. Feedback so far has been 99% positive. An amazing achievement in no uncertain terms and hopefully the player base appreciates it as well.

I am probably going to get into trouble with the Cauldron for what proceeds here but you know, AUSSIE YOLO. Just kidding.

The Cauldron has been carefully watching streams and all the various mediums - I am not even joking when I say I have watched some 20hrs of gameplay on Twitch already and many others in the Cauldron have done the same and also played a collective 300hrs - easily, probably 600 cause we all nerds.

Enough waffle lets get to the point shall we!

We are looking at the following weapons that have already become clear candidates for adjustments as they are over-performing in various ways:

• HPPC
  
• SNPPC
  
• uPL (cMicro Pulse)
  
• Light Gauss

We are also discussing / looking at:

• ERL (in lieu of quirk pass, more info later)
  
• cSSRM

So the questions are these:

• Are there any comments about the above weapons? The "discussing" part we are still working on ideas so hold out there please - we are aware of various proposals and issues.
  
• Are there any comments about weapons not mentioned?
  
• How do you feel about everything so far? Ideally please have played at least 20 games for a bit of a sample space.

Please post useful feedback and evidence of any sizeable claims or statements. It helps the Cauldron to make informed decisions. A bunch of "omg PPC META is stupid" does not help the discussion and is essentially nonsense.

Remember also consider in your comments the patches forthcoming:

• MAY - Mobility.
  
• JUNE - Quirks. (you will all lose your minds, trust thy Cauldron)
  
• Late 2021 - Rescale

Happy discussion.



Cheeeeeeeeers all.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 24 April 2021 - 07:15 AM.

[x Deathstrike x]

ASH, do you have links for the latest proposals?
How stable is the mobility list from here already:
https://docs.google....#gid=1964566595

What would quirks look like?

Aside from that I can only comment that I see a lot of IS PPCs.
Wouldnt particularly say they are overpowered but really half the team (both sides) uses them.
Also Snubnose in combination with AC20 on e.g. a Warhammer 6R has a 50 PPFLD now.
Yes its very close range but still pretty powerful.

Edited by x Deathstrike x, 24 April 2021 - 06:18 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

x Deathstrike x, on 24 April 2021 - 06:10 AM, said:

ASH, do you have links for the latest proposals?

In short - no.

• Mobility is still in discussion.
  
• Quirks are easily 3-4 weeks away.

That link I think is valid. But again I must stress it is not final.

It is not our intend to be secretive -

x Deathstrike x, on 24 April 2021 - 06:10 AM, said:

What would quirks look like?

Aside from that I can only comment that I see a lot of IS PPCs.
Wouldnt particularly say they are overpowered but really half the team (both sides) uses them.
Also Snubnose in combination with AC20 on e.g. a Warhammer 6R has a 50 PPFLD now.
Yes its very close range but still pretty powerful.

A good question and quirks - it is a hard one.

We have to consider

• Current values (weps, quirk, mobilty)
  
• Forecast what we think (weps, quirk, mobilty)
  
• Then throw Rescale late 2021

Quirks overall will be more 'fun'. That is our aim and will always be our aim. Competitive play is truthfully never discussed as a point of balance as High Level players will make the META, so to speak and I hope people can understand this point.


I have used the example for over 6 months for quirks - Locust 1V - single IS LPL Mega Quirk. It wasn't great as a build yet the quirk and the mech could be infuriating levels of annoying but it was fun. That is where we are heading with all quirks and considerations.

I hope that answers in as much detail as we can give. Admittedly we have more info from PGI however it has been requested we don't go public with various things and we can fully appreciate and respect that as we have what can be classed as nothing more than an amazing working relationship and no-one in the Cauldron wants to hurt that as it would hurt the overall playerbase.

If I can shout out to Matt/Daeron/Mark/Nico and the suave Francois - those guys are busting their a$-$ behind the scenes. It's amazing what is going on - just trust the trusted members of the community - it's all happening.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 24 April 2021 - 07:42 AM.

[pattonesque]

mentioned this elsewhere but: Micropulses seem extremely powerful but only a few chassis can use them in large enough numbers to achieve that, and those have weaknesses (Piranha is extremely fragile, Gargoyle has trouble getting close enough, and so on). I think potentially taking a look at either their cooldown or burn time might be valuable—they put out a huge amount of damage very quickly and the burn time is so low that it’s practically pinpoint

[IanDresarie]

couple things I've noticed:
- ATMs are really noticeably nerfed. I can feel that damage reduction very clearly at the end-of-game screen. Given How strong AMS is still, I think they should be tuned back up slightly.
- LPPCs are being used as supreme brawling weapons. I've faced quite a few LPPC Panthers, Commandos etc. using LPPCs in a way I thought Snubs should be used. I'm surprised they don't show up on your list as candidates for further adjustment.
- Fair bit of RAC5s out there. Can't judge if they're working as designed now, just an observation.

and now for the ranty bit:
- Laser vomit is cancer that has apparently returned. Here's the thing: a balanced weapon should be a) fun to play and not overwhelmingly frustrating to play against. Right now laser vomit is incredibly frustrating. Being cored out with salvo or two by a semi-patient player with decent aim is frustrating. the short laser durations in combination with good dps/dph and the basic aim-and-click makes it incredibly hard to play around, given that the enemy only needs a splitsecond to dump their damage so twisting doesn't really save you. I'd highly encourage you to take another look at the recently buffed laser weapons.

[lazorbeamz]

I think ATM nerfs were really uncalled for.
.

[byter75]

Regarding data gathering, a trouble I am having is that my games and most streamers are tier 1, so the sample I have to work with is biased. This compounds with the issue that there's always period of time after a patch where people are experimenting and it takes some time for people to settle in on the new meta (i.e. input lag).

For the most part I don't feel like there's been any one build that has clearly delineated itself as being heads and shoulders better than the rest from this patch. So whilst before the patch there were a few mechs you would see quite frequently (e.g. ppc veagle, mkII B, Blood Asp), in these first ~4 days we've not had any mech/build really dominate and push experimentation down into the gutter (yet). Whilst I would attribute this to it being the early days of the patch, matches thus far have been quite top heavy (only ~22-33% are lights & mediums) and ontop of that missile play has dropped significantly.

Personally I am currently quite fine with the snub, lgauss and micro changes. I am a bit worried about things like cLPL, hppcs & rac5 but I think we need a lot more time to really tell how this swathe of changes will change the game (particularly since agility, quirks and rescale are on the table).

Lastly I would like to see missile balance either left alone or properly addressed (in the long run). The arms race with ams worsens matchmaker rng and typically punishes smaller missile mech play more. Missile systems getting nerfs due to big missile boats hurts smaller missile mechs (should use tools better suited to addressing boating like ghost heat). Big homing alphas are very punishing when used against smaller mechs.
Or to put it another way. We have seen a huge amount of experimentation with heavier mechs using (hithertoo unused) direct fire (sniper) weapons and that's great/fine. However smaller mechs and missiles have key issues with consistentcy due to how easily both can be countered, ideally in the long run I'd like to see lockons and ams get a proper balance pass (though... a "proper" balance pass would probably require an engineer, rather than just xml changes).

Edited by byter75, 24 April 2021 - 07:29 AM.

[Composite Armour]

Shouldn't balance adjustments for weapons wait until after the full mobility and quirk pass happen too? We're missing pieces of the puzzle on live. Would also give time for the new meta to settle.

[Pvt Scooter]

I think now that people are using all the different types of PPCs it would be nice if they had different hues so it's easier to tell what type of PPC is being shot at you. Like probably not as stark as the differences in lasers, but enough that you can differentiate them even if someone is twin firing different types.

[SCRAPMETAL99]

stay away from the light guass stop listening to the cry baabys they are in a good position rihgt now any tampering will kill them once again

[FupDup]

How do you consider the Light Gauss to be overpowered? I hope you're just referring to its ability to combine with PPCs. If people think it's overperforming without PPCs used alongside it then that's kinda sad.

[Verilligo]

I think it might be helpful to get a direction to take balance suggestions in with regards to how the Cauldron wants to balance weapons. By that I mean, is the Cauldron aiming to balance weapons such that they require more skill to use effectively, but extremely rewarding when done so, or is the aim to make weapons generally easier to use at the cost of decreased performance? As an example, you could easily build a type of balance for something like the HPPC by dropping the velocity while making it extremely deadly when it hits, but that builds in a skill requirement that makes it more difficult to approach for the general player base. Based on the recent balance pass changes, that would seem to be the opposite direction that the Cauldron is trying to head in, and confirming that (at least to some extent) might make suggestions easier to cultivate.

[DANGEROUS]

There is a huge question that has been in the back of my head for a while now...

With all the proposed future changes - ie mobility and quirks...

Has there been any discussion on improving jump jets? The reason I ask- is that if Jump Jets improve- that will directly impact game play styles...

The reason I ask this here is:
If there is any plans to increase jump nets, if yes, then we might want to hold off on any future weapon adjustments to PPFLD weapons until after.

Outside of that, is it possible to remove the charge up timer on Light Gauss (and off-set this by adding cooldown timer equal to what the charge up timer would have added?). This will give further weapon diversity to the gauss family. Maybe possibly also lowering max range?
Example:
Light Gauss: no charge up mechanic
Gauss: charge up mechanic- but has long range
Heavy Gauss: charge up mechanic and screen shake- and close range

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 24 April 2021 - 08:06 AM, said:

How do you consider the Light Gauss to be overpowered? I hope you're just referring to its ability to combine with PPCs. If people think it's overperforming without PPCs used alongside it then that's kinda sad.

It's the range, and more specifically the range in combination with the quirks. There isn't a lot that can counter a 2LGR+2ERPPC sniper in its role with similar efficacy. Beyond reducing/removing the quirks, there are several options being examined to fix this such as LGR damage reduction (10 > 9), ERLL range buffs, etc.

[FupDup]

DANGEROUS, on 24 April 2021 - 08:15 AM, said:

Outside of that, is it possible to remove the charge up timer on Light Gauss (and off-set this by adding cooldown timer equal to what the charge up timer would have added?). This will give further weapon diversity to the gauss family. Maybe possibly also lowering max range?
Example:
Light Gauss: no charge up mechanic
Gauss: charge up mechanic- but has long range

Removing charge-up from LGR makes it feel like a gimped AC/10 rather than something unique.

Reducing its max range just makes it nearly useless because one of its primary attributes is supposed to be out-ranging the normal Gauss Rifle.

Y E O N N E, on 24 April 2021 - 08:18 AM, said:

It's the range, and more specifically the range in combination with the quirks. There isn't a lot that can counter a 2LGR+2ERPPC sniper in its role with similar efficacy. Beyond reducing/removing the quirks, there are several options being examined to fix this such as LGR damage reduction (10 > 9), ERLL range buffs, etc.

It barely has any extra range over the normal Gauss as it is. Is Cauldron seriously going to range match them? That just reinforces my fear that the LGR will ONLY be good when combined with PPCs and not worth using with any other weapons.

Hot take: I would rather sacrifice the ability to combine with PPCs.

[Lucky Noob]

i played now many Matches in the Lower Tier Bracket, and its refreshing to see the broader Diversity the Patch has brought in General.


I see more different types of PPC then before but not so much that it woud be a Problem.
They play well and feel dangerous, so all good here.

What i recognize is that alot fewer ATMs are played now, I am not a fan of that Weapon myself but i feel many ATM Lovers are absent atm.

[SCRAPMETAL99]

these people bitching about light gauss pronbbs never use them

[Krasnopesky]

FupDup, on 24 April 2021 - 08:20 AM, said:

Hot take: I would rather sacrifice the ability to combine with PPCs.

How would you make them viable if they couldn't combine with PPCs?

[FupDup]

Krasnopesky, on 24 April 2021 - 08:24 AM, said:

How would you make them viable if they couldn't combine with PPCs?

Reduce range on regular Gauss a bit (between current and old values) so that the LGR can have the niche of being the furthest-reaching sniper available. Maybe some more velocity to go along with that (current velocity difference between the two is fairly small).

Edited by FupDup, 24 April 2021 - 08:28 AM.

[Spheroid]

How about a mild(but not excessive) ghostheat penalty for linking LGR and ERPPC? Similar to the mild ghostheat on triple I.S. peeps?