259 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Tarteso, on 11 May 2021 - 10:42 AM, said:

With heat penalty removed, both micro lasers and micro pulse lasers are overperforming in the pyr-2 (mostly the only mech taking advantage of this change): 14 microl +1 micropl grant 6 alphas before shutdown and it can kill or leg any mech easily and keep running, a bit too much IMO

I've heard people say this but can honestly say I have not one time noticed a Piranha that has caused any huge problem. They seem incredibly easy to disarm or at least persuaded to break off their attack.

That being said, Micro pulses are getting adjusted

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 11 May 2021 - 11:02 AM.

[Tarteso]

Good to know, but ghost heat penalty should be put back for both microlaser systems, which should not be an issue for any other mech than this one. But it is a massive enhancement for the pyr-2.

Edited by Tarteso, 11 May 2021 - 11:43 AM.

[x Deathstrike x]

Tarteso, on 11 May 2021 - 11:43 AM, said:

Good to know, but ghost heat penalty should be put back for both microlaser systems, which should not be an issue for any other mech than this one. But it is a massive enhancement for the pyr-2.

Sorry but its not the PIR-2 that is overperforming because of the micro pulse, its the PIR-3.
PIR-3 just has one less energy slot but better agility and some structure quirks especially on the legs.
Nobody with a min-maxing goal would take a PIR-2 over a PIR-3

Edited by x Deathstrike x, 11 May 2021 - 01:52 PM.

[dario03]

Pir 2 or 3 aren't really the issue, they are still Piranhas and thus die easily. Issue is with the micro pulse over performing vs the heavy small which is the same weight and similar use case.

Edited by dario03, 11 May 2021 - 08:03 PM.

[Brauer]

The Piranha is made of wet tissue paper and can be one shot by literally anything in the game. It's hardly overperforming.

[MrTBSC]

pbiggz, on 10 May 2021 - 07:59 AM, said:

every argument made here against respawns was a "im scared of change" argument; not substantially different from "you cant change weapon balance because then there would be a meta".


Do you really enjoy waiting 10-15 minutes for a match, playing for 3 minutes, having your team throw the match for you, and then waiting 10-15 minutes to get 3-5 more minutes of gameplay in? Also, why? When faction play first dropped it was easily the most popular game mode, the dumbing down of faction play is widely accepted as one of the main drivers of the population crash. Why not take some of the best parts of faction play and incorporate them into quick play? The games already have a 15 minute timer, it just never gets hit because we play 4 different flavours of skirmish.

i don´t have wait time issues, but i´m not intrested in one game lasting 25 minutes to not gain anything out of it
if i want 20 to 25 minutegames i play factionplay ...
there is no need for Respawns in QP when there is factionplay for that ..

i get 5 to 6 QP games an hour no problem, i take short matches over long matches

instead of changing QP FP needs to be fixed, QP doesn´t need changes aside from matchscore and the levels themselves ..
just because there is a 15 min timer for QP it doesn´t need to be run down every match ..

[pbiggz]

MrTBSC, on 12 May 2021 - 03:05 AM, said:

i don´t have wait time issues, but i´m not intrested in one game lasting 25 minutes to not gain anything out of it
if i want 20 to 25 minutegames i play factionplay ...
there is no need for Respawns in QP when there is factionplay for that ..

i get 5 to 6 QP games an hour no problem, i take short matches over long matches

instead of changing QP FP needs to be fixed, QP doesn´t need changes aside from matchscore and the levels themselves ..
just because there is a 15 min timer for QP it doesn´t need to be run down every match ..

Politely, what the actual ****?

QP matches literally can't last longer than 15 minutes. What the **** are you going on about 25 minute matches for? It's completely irrelevant. And very good for you getting "short" queues. Everyone else takes ages to get into a match, so the problem not really effecting you personally is not a justification for not fixing it.

You guys seriously can't ***** about QP matches being too short, then do a 180, say you actually like them short, and ***** about potential fixes to them being too short.

Edited by pbiggz, 12 May 2021 - 05:04 AM.

[OmgKllL]

pbiggz, on 12 May 2021 - 04:56 AM, said:

Everyone else takes ages to get into a match, so the problem not really effecting you personally is not a justification for not fixing it.

that's the real game cancer, I quitted playing this game once just for that reason.

For QP you can't wait eons, it must be fixed for everyone.

[MrTBSC]

pbiggz, on 12 May 2021 - 04:56 AM, said:

Politely, what the actual ****?

QP matches literally can't last longer than 15 minutes. What the **** are you going on about 25 minute matches for? It's completely irrelevant. And very good for you getting "short" queues. Everyone else takes ages to get into a match, so the problem not really effecting you personally is not a justification for not fixing it.

You guys seriously can't ***** about QP matches being too short, then do a 180, say you actually like them short, and ***** about potential fixes to them being too short.

who is "you"? ...

again the waiting times i get are short enough like on average my waittimes between matches barely scratch 5 minutes if at all, and yes i don´t mind short matches .. i am only speaking for myself ..
and i don´t want respawns in QP ... done, can´t be that hard to understand

... "QP can´t last longer" ... no S***** Sherlock ... maybe, i mean MAYBE i was talking about FP there because FP DOES last longer than QP on avarage ... ... like COME ON think a bit yourself .. i have LITTERALY WRITTEN IT THERE!

also putting respawns into QP won´t solve the problem of queuetime, THAT is a matter of the matchmaker being flexible enough to quickly put 16 to 24 players with the varrious weightclasses together ..


"the problem not really effecting you personally is not a justification for not fixing it."

B*******, as in ABSOLUTE B******, the moment you put respawn in you not only change the avarage playtime but also how the game is played in general ... i play QP BECAUSE of the one life/spawn rule

weither you put in respawn with dropdecks of 2 to 4 or respawning with the same mech it drastically changes how your average player will go into a match something that very well might be rather detrimental to that mode imo ..
heck even if you turn QP into something like a best of 3 you will run into the issue of players that died early having to wait for the duration of the round to finish until they can begin the new round ..

Edited by MrTBSC, 13 May 2021 - 01:41 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

MrTBSC, on 09 May 2021 - 09:18 PM, said:

no, quickplay should stay as is, if you want respawns you HAVE faction warfare for that..

quick play is meant for quick matches, one life, go in to kill and survive or die and be out of the match, done ...

Problem with this system is that killing mechs become top priority, people barely and I would argue nobody play for the objective. Skirmish is murder everyone, Assault is murder everyone with optional capture, Domination is murder everyone in a point -- see the pattern there?

I think they should just either remove all modes but skirmish, or all modes but conquest -- it's still murdering, but a lot more strategy at play and breaks up the murderball.

[MrTBSC]

The6thMessenger, on 13 May 2021 - 02:00 AM, said:

Problem with this system is that killing mechs become top priority, people barely and I would argue nobody play for the objective. Skirmish is murder everyone, Assault is murder everyone with optional capture, Domination is murder everyone in a point -- see the pattern there?

I think they should just either remove all modes but skirmish, or all modes but conquest -- it's still murdering, but a lot more strategy at play and breaks up the murderball.

yea funny thing ... imho they should remove skirmish ... because every other mode technicaly has a comeback option

low on mechs? try enemy cap on base for clutchwin in assault

conquest: oh you hunted mechs well enough but your enemy more went for caps on a map like polar, jokes on you ..

yea domination pretty much is "get to center satdish and brawl it out" fair enough ..

incursion imo could be made more intresting aside from just "do a bit damage to the enemy base when there are no mechs left" but i don´t know ...

but i have to disagree in conquest people DO go for the objective obvoiusly in early and endgame but also through mid, in assault i saw plenty people go for clutchwin caps or early cheese caps...

domination is a no brainer because if nobody of your team is close to the Satdish you lose automaticaly


incursion is were people do not care at all, as such it´s barely chosen anyway

escort: i may have played that mode litteraly just once .... and i imagine people generaly do not like that it is a asymmetrical gamemode similarly to Siege for FW ..






otherwise look at the other way: lets say we change FW to have infinite respawns or say battlefieldesque with tickets ...
first thing i´m gonna tell you: if it´s not conquest you can forget ever playing lights as they just become foddertier for the average player using them ..

if you put infinite spawns in skirmish it becomes "get the most fraggs" ... which you can again forget with lights unless MAYBE wolfpacking, but good luck with that ...
and here is the thing remember 8v8 in MW4? (aside from that game´s balance being busted) how many people do you see willingly take lights there? now imagine that for 12v12 QP were the player is stuck with his chosen mech for the duration of the match ... ... why would you torment yourself that much as an avarage player?


FW at the moment with dropdeck is "use all 4 drops" which basicaly means you more or less go through all weightclasses from heaviest to lightest to when the avarage atritionwar happens were both sides grind through their dropdecks lights pretty much end up just being fast gruntunits ..... as ultimately the goal is to deal as much damage as possible with every drop ..
if you don´t use all drops in the dropdeck that means your mechdestruction potentionaly is that much more damaging to your team ...

you get what i´m about? (i may not be good at exactly explaining it) ... the fact that QP, even if the primary goal is "kill mechs", is still only one live means you better know what mech you are chosing and the role you want to play with it .. QP one live rule imho has a much more intresting meta than FW provides ... i very much think that bringing any sort of respawn will be detrimental to low end medium and light mech play ..


some people say hey FW should be like MW:LL ... yea problem with that is again the snowball and rich get richer problem because MW:LL is about powercreep while conquest ... everyone may start with weak mechs, were those who play well get to run stronger mechs while those that don´t still keep the weaker mechs and stay as fodder ..



as already mentioned i do enjoy QP because of the shorter playtime (i rather play many matches with different results than playing one long match with a clear negative result) and the fact that its one life ..
imo the one life rule makes lights and mechs that aren´t just mechdestroyers matter more in that mode than in FW, of course it would be great if the matchscoresystem would be adjusted so it doesn´t reward just damage and kills ...

Edited by MrTBSC, 13 May 2021 - 08:37 AM.

[pbiggz]

MrTBSC, on 13 May 2021 - 01:34 AM, said:

who is "you"? ...

again the waiting times i get are short enough like on average my waittimes between matches barely scratch 5 minutes if at all, and yes i don´t mind short matches .. i am only speaking for myself ..
and i don´t want respawns in QP ... done, can´t be that hard to understand

... "QP can´t last longer" ... no S***** Sherlock ... maybe, i mean MAYBE i was talking about FP there because FP DOES last longer than QP on avarage ... ... like COME ON think a bit yourself .. i have LITTERALY WRITTEN IT THERE!

Ok, so you said you don't like long faction play matches, and you're using it...

to justify not putting respawns in a different game mode that couldn't be as long as faction play even if respawns were in today?

Sorry, trash argument. Your justification is completely irrelevant. It's like saying you think apples taste bad because you don't like the taste of cheddar cheese. Both of these things are your opinion, and they have nothing to do with one another, so why are you trying to justify one opinion with another opinion.

MrTBSC, on 13 May 2021 - 01:34 AM, said:

also putting respawns into QP won´t solve the problem of queuetime, THAT is a matter of the matchmaker being flexible enough to quickly put 16 to 24 players with the varrious weightclasses together ..

Queue times come from a few different areas. First, the match maker wants to balance by weight. Often it can't, which is why its the first release valve to go. With dropdecks, matchmakers wouldn't balance by weight anymore, because every player brings roughly the same tonnage to each match. Eliminating one of the release valves altogether would shorten queues, though I can't say exactly how much, as PGI does not release that info.

MrTBSC, on 13 May 2021 - 01:34 AM, said:

"the problem not really effecting you personally is not a justification for not fixing it."

B*******, as in ABSOLUTE B******, the moment you put respawn in you not only change the avarage playtime but also how the game is played in general ... i play QP BECAUSE of the one life/spawn rule

So then you admit, you're opposed to this proposal because the complaints people are leveling against QP don't really effect you and you don't care to change how you play because of it.

Sounds like you're just selfish.

MrTBSC, on 13 May 2021 - 01:34 AM, said:

weither you put in respawn with dropdecks of 2 to 4 or respawning with the same mech it drastically changes how your average player will go into a match something that very well might be rather detrimental to that mode imo ..
heck even if you turn QP into something like a best of 3 you will run into the issue of players that died early having to wait for the duration of the round to finish until they can begin the new round ..

You can change your dropdecks before matches. Additionally, no matchmaker or lobby system will ever save you from the fact that half of this game is played in the mechlab, and there are people who play it that are better at clicking heads than you or I will ever be. Respawns will enhance the length and quality of matches, it won't magically make you or me or anyone else never lose and always have beautiful matches. Sometimes your team will just suck. Maybe the direwolf pilot is running on 3 hours of sleep and he charges in and insta dies, maybe the piranha pilot's mouse dies in the middle of the match. Maybe the LURM archer doesn't know how to aim. No matchmaker will save you from those externalities, so using the potential that you might lose as justification for not making changes at all is incoherent.

QP needs drastic changes. It doesn't really matter if you think it doesn't, it just means you haven't thought particularly hard about it, or you lack the imagination to think about it and you're ok with 4 different flavours of skirmish.

You problem, not me problem.

I think the game could be better, and lots of people here dare to imagine what it might look like if it was.

MrTBSC, on 13 May 2021 - 05:36 AM, said:

yea funny thing ... imho they should remove skirmish ... because every other mode technicaly has a comeback option

low on mechs? try enemy cap on base for clutchwin in assault

conquest: oh you hunted mechs well enough but your enemy more went for caps on a map like polar, jokes on you ..

yea domination pretty much is "get to center satdish and brawl it out" fair enough ..

incursion imo could be made more intresting aside from just "do a bit damage to the enemy base when there are no mechs left" but i don´t know ...

but i have to disagree in conquest people DO go for the objective obvoiusly in early and endgame but also through mid, in assault i saw plenty people go for clutchwin caps or early cheese caps...

domination is a no brainer because if nobody of your team is close to the Satdish you lose automaticaly

incursion is were people do not care at all, as such it´s barely chosen anyway

escort: i may have played that mode litteraly just once .... and i imagine people generaly do not like that it is a asymmetrical gamemode similarly to Siege for FW ..

Alternatively, literally just get good at shooting mechs, and kill them, because its always faster than playing the meaningless objectives.

I don't care that you think you can win by objectives, or that you think it being possible in theory matters. I care about how people actually play the game, and nobody plays objectives, unless they have no other choice. Every gamemode is just skirmish with extra steps. What an absolute waste.

MrTBSC, on 13 May 2021 - 05:36 AM, said:

otherwise look at the other way: lets say we change FW to have infinite respawns or say battlefieldesque with tickets ...
first thing i´m gonna tell you: if it´s not conquest you can forget ever playing lights as they just become foddertier for the average player using them ..

if you put infinite spawns in skirmish it becomes "get the most fraggs" ... which you can again forget with lights unless MAYBE wolfpacking, but good luck with that ...
and here is the thing remember 8v8 in MW4? (aside from that game´s balance being busted) how many people do you see willingly take lights there? now imagine that for 12v12 QP were the player is stuck with his chosen mech for the duration of the match ... ... why would you torment yourself that much as an avarage player?


FW at the moment with dropdeck is "use all 4 drops" which basicaly means you more or less go through all weightclasses from heaviest to lightest to when the avarage atritionwar happens were both sides grind through their dropdecks lights pretty much end up just being fast gruntunits ..... as ultimately the goal is to deal as much damage as possible with every drop ..
if you don´t use all drops in the dropdeck that means your mechdestruction potentionaly is that much more damaging to your team ...

you get what i´m about? (i may not be good at exactly explaining it) ... the fact that QP, even if the primary goal is "kill mechs", is still only one live means you better know what mech you are chosing and the role you want to play with it .. QP one live rule imho has a much more intresting meta than FW provides ... i very much think that bringing any sort of respawn will be detrimental to low end medium and light mech play ..


some people say hey FW should be like MW:LL ... yea problem with that is again the snowbawl and rich get richer problem because MW:LL is about powercreep while conquest ... everyone may start with weak mechs, were those who play well get to run stronger mechs while those that don´t still keep the weaker mechs and stay as fodder ..

Dude what? The primary objective in quickplay is supposed to be to play the objectives, not every game mode should be skirmish. That's pathetic.

MrTBSC, on 13 May 2021 - 05:36 AM, said:

as already mentioned i do enjoy QP because of the shorter playtime (i rather play many matches with different results than playing one long match with a clear negative result) and the fact that its one live ..
imo the one life rule makes lights and mechs that aren´t just mechdestroyers matter more in that mode than in FW, of course it would be great if the matchscoresystem would be adjusted so it doesn´t reward just damage and kills ...

Your one overarching critique seems to be that you don't want the matches to last long, and to quote the immortal paul inouye, "you're on an island". Even if that were a real concern, its NOT A REAL CONCERN BECAUSE THE MATCHES ARE LOCKED TO 15 MINUTES.

Your boogieman doesn't exist. He's a figment of your own imagination. You're writing entire paragraphs railing against a reckoning that's never going to arrive. Stop wasting your own time.

Edited by pbiggz, 13 May 2021 - 05:52 AM.

[MrTBSC]

pbiggz, on 13 May 2021 - 05:49 AM, said:

Ok, so you said you don't like long faction play matches, and you're using it...

not gonna even read the rest, [Redcated]
if you fail to understand what i am saying or simply delibaretly twist my words around there is no point in discussing this with you, moving on

Edited by GM Patience, 13 May 2021 - 12:08 PM.

[pbiggz]

MrTBSC, on 13 May 2021 - 07:50 AM, said:

not gonna even read the rest, [Redacted] if you fail to understand what i am saying there is no point in discussing this with you, moving on

The things you're scared of don't exist, and you failed to produce a single bit of justification for not putting respawns in. Nobody's trying to insult you, but its clear you aren't interested in changing your mind at all, so yes, lets move on.

[Leone]

I disagree with the idea of adding dropdecks to quickplay because we have them in Community Warfare, and almost no one plays that mode anymore and I'm afraid the inclusion in quickplay would traumatize all our quickplay pugs and kill the game. Also, picking a good dropdeck loadout takes a modicum of effort, which is the opposite of how quickplay is supposed to be the low effort 'drop now for laughs.'

~Leone.

[MrTBSC]

pbiggz, on 13 May 2021 - 07:56 AM, said:

The things you're scared of don't exist, and you failed to produce a single bit of justification for not putting respawns in. Nobody's trying to insult you, but its clear you aren't interested in changing your mind at all, so yes, lets move on.

no, you are just biased that you already dismiss any arguement against your proposition beforehand ... no, point in raising arguements against a brickwall ..

[pbiggz]

Leone, on 13 May 2021 - 08:20 AM, said:

I disagree with the idea of adding dropdecks to quickplay because we have them in Community Warfare, and almost no one plays that mode anymore and I'm afraid the inclusion in quickplay would traumatize all our quickplay pugs and kill the game. Also, picking a good dropdeck loadout takes a modicum of effort, which is the opposite of how quickplay is supposed to be the low effort 'drop now for laughs.'

~Leone.

The assertion that dropdecks and respawns are the reason Faction Play is not popular, rather than NEEDING full 12 mans, and changes that all but eliminated faction/company interplays is totally misleading.

Our players aren't that fragile. They can handle a dropdeck, and with 15 minute timers on matches, those matches will still be quick, and even easier with respawns.

Even with respawns, these would be by all standards, very short, very simple games.

[Leone]

pbiggz, on 13 May 2021 - 09:28 AM, said:

Our players aren't that fragile. They can handle a dropdeck, and with 15 minute timers on matches, those matches will still be quick, and even easier with respawns.

Even with respawns, these would be by all standards, very short, very simple games.

You say that, and yet we currently have threads all about how big a problem nascaring is and how often stomps are happening in quickplay. Adding dropdecks will exasperate the problem. If a team is losing hard, the ability to throw more mechs at the problem isn't gonna suddenly make the match more even.

Now granted, I could see a mode where we've an unlimited mech supply and I can charge into the fray in mech after glorious trainwreck of a mech, dropping in my sixth whilst the spawn campers are finally getting to their second. But I still don't see that playing out any different than the current CW matches save that I don't hafta switch to my alt to requeue halfway through the match because only two other teammates thought it'd be a good idea to keep the enemy from advancing into our spawn to deal with the campers. So yeah, I'd get to play the whole match. But the outcome'd already've been determined.

~Leone

Edited by Leone, 13 May 2021 - 11:00 AM.

[pbiggz]

Leone, on 13 May 2021 - 11:00 AM, said:

You say that, and yet we currently have threads all about how big a problem nascaring is and how often stomps are happening in quickplay. Adding dropdecks will exasperate the problem. If a team is losing hard, the ability to throw more mechs at the problem isn't gonna suddenly make the match more even.

Now granted, I could see a mode where we've an unlimited mech supply and I can charge into the fray in mech after glorious trainwreck of a mech, dropping in my sixth whilst the spawn campers are finally getting to their second. But I still don't see that playing out any different than the current CW matches save that I don't hafta switch to my alt to requeue halfway through the match because only two other teammates thought it'd be a good idea to keep the enemy from advancing into our spawn to deal with the campers. So yeah, I'd get to play the whole match. But the outcome'd already've been determined.

~Leone

I don't agree with that fear. Many matches already end in stomps, and those that don't can sometimes still feel like stomps, especially if you die in the first few minutes because you made a mistake. Giving people more time to shoot is a good thing, not a bad thing. Other games do it. They do it all the time. This isn't magical experimental tech, its just a nice thing we've never had in MWO.

You guys are scared of how things *might change* and simultaneously dissatisfied (and rightly so) with how things are now. This is not substantially different from people opposing weapon and mech changes because they're scared something might break, while simultaneously hating whatever current meta is in place. We need to get over that fear.

[Surefoot]

Like i said before, having a single 'mech drop choice before QP match may be an idea, but a full respawn drop deck is not, for starters beginners will be really at a disadvantage, moreover respawn means having some proper tactics for reinforcements, and as we know "tactics" and "QP" do not go well together at all...

Edited by Surefoot, 13 May 2021 - 11:54 PM.