25 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Spoiler

The6thMessenger, on 11 November 2020 - 02:47 PM, said:

Release the Bull Shark, much of the work is already done, it just needs to be integrated in MWO. I tried my best with the variants, to be close to lore as possible. It's basically an IS Mad-Cat MKII.

Quote

The Bull-Shark is a stolen prototype of the Clan Wolverine, turned down in favor of the Mad-Cat MK2, it is initially made with Clan-Tech but later used the more common technology of the Inner Sphere. While a formidable opponent to the Mad-Cat MKII, models are known to run quite hot.

Bull Shark A

Spoiler

The Configuraton A is the typical loadout of the Bull Shark upon mass production. It comes with 16 tons of light ferro-fibrous armor for protection. It's armaments include a pair of everything; two 10-tube Long Range Missiles linked to Artemis Fire-Control with three tons of ammunition, a pair of Particle Projector Cannons, and a pair of Ultra Autocannon 5 with four tons of ammunition. Equipped with an XL285 allows a standard 54 KPH with a total of 14 double heat-sinks keeps the 'mech cool.

QUIRKS:
> Armor (RA): +8
> Armor (RT): +16
> Armor (LA): +8
> Armor (LT): +16

Bull Shark B

Spoiler

The Configuraton B was meant to replace the aging King Crab while being able to be a formidable command-vehicle, it uses a devastating pair of Ultra Autocannon 20, a quartet of Extended Range Medium Lasers, and a pair of 15-tube Long-Range Missiles for long-range fire-support. With only a total of 11 double heat-sinks it typically runs hot.

QUIRKS:
> Armor (RA): +8
> Armor (RT): +16
> Armor (LA): +8
> Armor (LT): +16

Bull Shark C

Spoiler

The Configuration C eschews the Long Range Missiles to upgrade the Particle Cannons into the Heavy variants, and replacing the missiles are a quartet of medium pulse lasers got backup. A total of 15 double heat-sinks is enough to keep the mech cool.

QUIRKS:
> Armor (RA): +8
> Armor (RT): +16
> Armor (LA): +8
> Armor (LT): +16

Bull Shark 1

Spoiler

The Configuration 1 is a particularly popular variant through the simple use of brute-forcing fire-fights with a wall of shells. It mounts a pair of Rotary Autocannon 5s with 4 tons of ammunition, and a pair of Rotary Autocannon 2s with 3 tons of ammunition, and for backup it has a quartet of Medium Pulse Lasers. A total of 14 double heat-sinks keeps the mech cool.

QUIRKS:
> Armor (RA): +8
> Armor (RT): +16
> Armor (LA): +8
> Armor (LT): +16

Bull Shark 2

Spoiler

The Configuration 2 eschews the cannons on each arm with quartet of Large Lasers, two in each hands. Supplementing it's long-range fire-power is a pair of 15-Tube Long-Range Missiles linked to Artemis Fire-Control with three tons of ammunition, and for short-ranged defense is a pair of Streak SRM6s with two tons of ammunition. A total of fifteen double heat-sinks keeps this mech cool.

QUIRKS:
> Armor (RA): +8
> Armor (RT): +16
> Armor (LA): +8
> Armor (LT): +16

Bull Shark 3

Spoiler

The Configuration 3 is a departure from the standard chassis of the previous production as it is instead built upon an Endo-Steel Chassis. It mounts six Ultra Autocannon 2 with five tons of ammunition, able to provide long-range fire support with extreme prejudice. However it only has a pair of 6-Tubed Short-Range Missiles with two tons of amumunition. Rounding out it's protection is 18 tons of standard armor with an Anti-Missile System. With it's relatively cool armaments, it only comes with 11 single heat-sinks.

QUIRKS:
> Armor (RA): +8
> Armor (RT): +16
> Armor (LA): +8
> Armor (LT): +16

Bull Shark Castle Bravo

Spoiler

LORE:

The Castle Bravo is the first Inner Sphere prototype used by Natasha Kerenesky, featuring first iteration of future weapons that are yet to be mass-produced after a decade. It features a pair of of Heavy PPCs, an MRM40, and an Ultra Autocannon/20, a Light Engine, and a total of
12 Double Heatsinks, which aren't exactly enough for sustained fire causing the mech to easily overheat, earning the nickname "Castle Bravo" which was a prototype nuclear weapon.

QUIRKS:
> Armor (RA): +8
> Armor (RT): +16
> Armor (LA): +8
> Armor (LT): +16

Much of the work is already done by HBS.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 29 April 2021 - 06:54 AM.

[John Bronco]

So its like a mauler with even worse hitboxes?

[The6thMessenger]

John Bronco, on 28 April 2021 - 10:04 PM, said:

So its like a mauler with even worse hitboxes?

More like an IS MadCat-II

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

Why would I want a Viking with crap hitboxes?

[Der Geisterbaer]

The6thMessenger said:

Release the Bull Shark, much of the work is already done, it just needs to be integrated in MWO.

So you're asking for the release of a mech which's main optical and tactical specialty - the thumper artillery cannon (visually on the back center torso but rule wise mounted on the right torso) - would have to be left out due to the weapon itself and its hitbox ramifications?

The6thMessenger said:

I tried my best with the variants, to be close to lore as possible. It's basically an IS Mad-Cat MKII.

~hmmm~ Ditching the orginal ballistic weapons LBX-10 and UAC-5 in both arms in favor of two UAC-10 on the primary version in order to compensate for the missing thumper doesn't really strike me as a best effort attempt of staying close to the lore this mech has. I would have expected a missile hardpoint with a large LRM launcher on the right torso instead. ~shrug~

[ScrapIron Prime]

With the thumper it’s a hilarious mech. Every time I fired it in the game, I couldn’t help but say “This is bull-sh ... ark! [boom]”

Glorious.

But as an option in MWO, what’s it going to do? 7 tons for extra artillery strikes? That would get annoying fast. And without that weapon... it’s just a cool looking mech with lousy hitboxes... something the other game didn’t care about.

[The6thMessenger]

Der Geisterbaer, on 29 April 2021 - 03:32 AM, said:

So you're asking for the release of a mech which's main optical and tactical specialty - the thumper artillery cannon (visually on the back center torso but rule wise mounted on the right torso) - would have to be left out due to the weapon itself and its hitbox ramifications?

Yes. Because we don't have a damn thumper. And wiki says there's only like 1 variant.

Der Geisterbaer, on 29 April 2021 - 03:32 AM, said:

~hmmm~ Ditching the orginal ballistic weapons LBX-10 and UAC-5 in both arms in favor of two UAC-10 on the primary version in order to compensate for the missing thumper doesn't really strike me as a best effort attempt of staying close to the lore this mech has. I would have expected a missile hardpoint with a large LRM launcher on the right torso instead. ~shrug~

Fine, gimme a moment.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 29 April 2021 - 07:05 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Der Geisterbaer, on 29 April 2021 - 03:32 AM, said:

~hmmm~ Ditching the orginal ballistic weapons LBX-10 and UAC-5 in both arms in favor of two UAC-10 on the primary version in order to compensate for the missing thumper doesn't really strike me as a best effort attempt of staying close to the lore this mech has. I would have expected a missile hardpoint with a large LRM launcher on the right torso instead. ~shrug~

Fine, here you go:

Quote

The Bull-Shark is a stolen prototype of the Clan Wolverine, turned down in favor of the Mad-Cat MK2, it is initially made with Clan-Tech but later used the more common technology of the Inner Sphere. While a formidable opponent to the Mad-Cat MKII, models are known to run quite hot.

Bull Shark A

Spoiler

The Configuraton A is the typical loadout of the Bull Shark upon mass production. It comes with 16 tons of light ferro-fibrous armor for protection. It's armaments include a pair of everything; two 10-tube Long Range Missiles linked to Artemis Fire-Control with three tons of ammunition, a pair of Particle Projector Cannons, and a pair of Ultra Autocannon 5 with four tons of ammunition. Equipped with an XL285 allows a standard 54 KPH with a total of 14 double heat-sinks keeps the 'mech cool.

QUIRKS:
> Armor (RA): +8
> Armor (RT): +16
> Armor (LA): +8
> Armor (LT): +16

Bull Shark B

Spoiler

The Configuraton B was meant to replace the aging King Crab while being able to be a formidable command-vehicle, it uses a devastating pair of Ultra Autocannon 20, a quartet of Extended Range Medium Lasers, and a pair of 15-tube Long-Range Missiles for long-range fire-support. With only a total of 11 double heat-sinks it typically runs hot.

QUIRKS:
> Armor (RA): +8
> Armor (RT): +16
> Armor (LA): +8
> Armor (LT): +16

Bull Shark C

Spoiler

The Configuration C eschews the Long Range Missiles to upgrade the Particle Cannons into the Heavy variants, and replacing the missiles are a quartet of medium pulse lasers got backup. A total of 15 double heat-sinks is enough to keep the mech cool.

QUIRKS:
> Armor (RA): +8
> Armor (RT): +16
> Armor (LA): +8
> Armor (LT): +16

Bull Shark 1

Spoiler

The Configuration 1 is a particularly popular variant through the simple use of brute-forcing fire-fights with a wall of shells. It mounts a pair of Rotary Autocannon 5s with 4 tons of ammunition, and a pair of Rotary Autocannon 2s with 3 tons of ammunition, and for backup it has a quartet of Medium Pulse Lasers. A total of 14 double heat-sinks keeps the mech cool.

QUIRKS:
> Armor (RA): +8
> Armor (RT): +16
> Armor (LA): +8
> Armor (LT): +16

Bull Shark 2

Spoiler

The Configuration 2 eschews the cannons on each arm with quartet of Large Lasers, two in each hands. Supplementing it's long-range fire-power is a pair of 15-Tube Long-Range Missiles linked to Artemis Fire-Control with three tons of ammunition, and for short-ranged defense is a pair of Streak SRM6s with two tons of ammunition. A total of fifteen double heat-sinks keeps this mech cool.

QUIRKS:
> Armor (RA): +8
> Armor (RT): +16
> Armor (LA): +8
> Armor (LT): +16

Bull Shark 3

Spoiler

The Configuration 3 is a departure from the standard chassis of the previous production as it is instead built upon an Endo-Steel Chassis. It mounts six Ultra Autocannon 2 with five tons of ammunition, able to provide long-range fire support with extreme prejudice. However it only has a pair of 6-Tubed Short-Range Missiles with two tons of amumunition. Rounding out it's protection is 18 tons of standard armor with an Anti-Missile System. With it's relatively cool armaments, it only comes with 11 single heat-sinks.

QUIRKS:
> Armor (RA): +8
> Armor (RT): +16
> Armor (LA): +8
> Armor (LT): +16

Bull Shark Castle Bravo

Spoiler

LORE:

The Castle Bravo is the first Inner Sphere prototype used by Natasha Kerenesky, featuring first iteration of future weapons that are yet to be mass-produced after a decade. It features a pair of of Heavy PPCs, an MRM40, and an Ultra Autocannon/20, a Light Engine, and a total of 12 Double Heatsinks, which aren't exactly enough for sustained fire causing the mech to easily overheat, earning the nickname "Castle Bravo" which was a prototype nuclear weapon.

QUIRKS:
> Armor (RA): +8
> Armor (RT): +16
> Armor (LA): +8
> Armor (LT): +16

Edited by The6thMessenger, 29 April 2021 - 07:25 AM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

So still no (primary) variant that has (at least) 2 ballistic slots per arm, a right torso with 2 energy slots and 1 missile slot (as closest replacement for a thumper within the available spectrum that MWO currently provides) and 2 energy slots on the left torso. I guess we have vastly different understandings of "best effort attempt of staying close to the lore" ... and I'm still a bit at a loss as to why MWO would "need" that particular mech and your variants:

Its main visually and tactically distinctive feature would still be left out and just because the PGI models were reasonably well up-streamed to HBS' Battletech that doesn't by default mean that a back-port from there to MWO is just as easy.

But then again, even those variants of yours would find at least one buyer, wouldn't they?

[Anjian]

What's the cannon on the back? That design feature looks out of BT and into BoT as in Battle of Titans.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Anjian, on 29 April 2021 - 07:48 AM, said:

What's the cannon on the back? That design feature looks out of BT and into BoT as in Battle of Titans.

By the non-canon lore of that mech (HBS Battletech is only partially considered to be part of the official BT canon) it's a thumper artillery cannon. As such this weapon currently cannot be simulated in MWO because MWO simply doesn't have any of the canoncially mech mounted thumpers (or other explicitly "artillery" categorized weapons).

As for this looking "out of BT and into BoT"? I don't see that much difference there when compared to let's say the infamous "small" pulse on the Behemoth / Stone Rhino or self-created mechs that are designed in accordance to the more advanced BT design / construction rules when using stuff like the "BattleMech Turret" on the head or the shoulder (left or right torso)

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 29 April 2021 - 08:04 AM.

[pbiggz]

I'd be all for it cause its cool.

Some people lose sight of that.

[Nightbird]

Don't use LRMs and hitboxes should be fine w/o those shoulder pods, just like the MCII.

[Gas Guzzler]

Eh, I would only accept it if it didn't step on the toes of other mech releases...

AKA Hauptmann, Kingfisher, Turkina, Raptor, Blackhawk KU, Men Shen, Black Python, Dragon Fire, Shadowhawk IIC and Locust IIC.

[Anjian]

I would agree that losing the back cannon and the shoulder pads in order to reduce the hitboxes would make the mech lose its character and it won't be much different from another generic bipedal assault. It is simply designed for a different game, after all.

[Alex Morgaine]

I like to theory build. Let's see...I was able to set up An XL285, thumper with ammo, uac2x2,ac2,4mpl with endo. 18.5 tons armor, 0 slots but it is tt legal, so you just need a 3k range ac20 with pre patch velocity to simulate the artillery fire, and some way to split the cannon crits. How you plop in other weapons would be your own issue.

Just have the cannon model eject ammo at a 45 degree angle so the shells are hard to aim close up but designed to go far far far

[ScrapIron Prime]

Gas Guzzler, on 29 April 2021 - 09:09 AM, said:

Eh, I would only accept it if it didn't step on the toes of other mech releases...

AKA Hauptmann, Kingfisher, Turkina, Raptor, Blackhawk KU, Men Shen, Black Python, Dragon Fire, Shadowhawk IIC and Locust IIC.

You forgot "Crusader". Just saying.

[Valdarion Silarius]

The6thMessenger, on 29 April 2021 - 04:27 AM, said:

Yes. Because we don't have a damn thumper. And wiki says there's only like 1 variant.

PGI could do something unique with the thumper to compensate for it. Make it like an extra artillery consumable since it is basically a mortar. Not really sure how that would go over with the community but it's an idea at least.

If we are on the topic of new mechs then we are way overdue for the Firemoth. Other mechs like the Grendel would be a great asset for the clans and would be a mech I would consider shelling out money for. On the IS side of things I'd consider putting out money for the Toyama (if they did the variations right) and the Crusader.

With this whole new Cauldron thing, I'd really like to see if there are talented members of the community that could theoretically make new mechs and weapon systems and present them to PGI. Not so long ago I did remember a video of a functioning clan HAG that someone modded into MW:O.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 29 April 2021 - 12:39 PM.

[Alex Morgaine]

Hmmmm... Here's an idea I thought up to implement mortars and the artillery systems that would be unique and should work without extra programming, hopefully comparable with existing xml.
Mortars and artillery would fire at roughly 45° angles, with optimal range being where the shells land.
So 600m optimal =mortar/artillery shells lobbed hit 590 +/-10m away. Arrow IV would fire a jumbo missile the the same way, with its impact being the optimal +/-10m, but substantially more hp vs ams. This fire style would override LOS to avoid firing aoe into your own face. no locks needed, though allied locks would just help you gauge where the old or is in relation to where your missile/mortar/artillery would land.

Edited by Alex Morgaine, 29 April 2021 - 01:06 PM.

[HammerMaster]

How about we fix what we have rather than introduce ANOTHER thing that WON'T work PROPERLY PGI.