52 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

FupDup, on 30 April 2021 - 05:31 PM, said:

I definitely do not want to see triple AC/20 without Spooky Heat.

I don't see much issue though. So far it's only the Victor that could do that, and its a 42-ton investment + ammunition that runs out, on a 270m optimal range, and at 48-kph. It would be scary but it wouldn't be a complete game-changer.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 30 April 2021 - 06:36 PM.

[kapusta11]

So why take 8 damage SNPPC over 3 MPLs which deal 18 damage or LPL which deals 11 and has longer range? Splash is a poor consolation, we all know that. If AC20 + SNPPC builds are that oppressive, dunno how seeing how dual HGauss is a thing, then the fix should address only that loadout and nothing else, in other words AC20 should be linked with SNPPCs. With only one mech being able to carry 3 AC20s and that build being a meme, there's no difference between raising the cap to two or any other greater number.

[VeeOt Dragon]

honestly though i don't use Snubs (i'm more of a mid ranger honestly) i do like the idea of the splash damage for them though. it makes them have a bit of uniqueness (hell SNPPC in HBS Battletech (honestly can't remember if they are part of the main game or the mod i run) act as energy shotguns. i sort of understand the limitations you have with the current MWO game making this impossible.). i like weapons to feel like the fit their own sort of feel. though with the last patch changes i have been thinking of pulling the ERPPC out of my annoyance Urbie in exchange for two LPPCs will have to check the heat and such differences. (i just don't like how short the range on the SNPPC is, sort of why i treat MLs as backup weapons on most of my builds.)

[Vlad Ward]

Krasnopesky, on 30 April 2021 - 05:18 PM, said:

This is a solution I have looked at too, I believe it could work if spread damage fails.

With this method you can still shoot 2 AC20 + 1 Snub Nose for 50 pinpoint and you also activate the triple AC20 Victor 9A1 for 60 pinpoint with very little heat. 2 AC20 + 3 Snub Nose is obviously out of the equation though.

There are plenty of Mechs that can run triple snub AC20 that can also run double AC20 + 1 snub, so it doesn't really address the issue people have focused on most.

Very simple comparison:
2x AC20 + 1 Snub: 34 tonnes, 17 heat, 50 pinpoint
1x AC20 + 3 Snub: 32 tonnes, 26 heat, 50 pinpoint

All of these builds have an optimum range with perks of around 300m. I wonder how much of this perceived overperformance is the result of player tendency to bumrush so hard they practically (or sometimes literally) smash into the opfor.

A bog-standard midrange build (5- or 10-class ACs, PPCs, MRMs, RACs) can pick off these blap machines before they can get into range.

Edit: To be clear, I'd attest that this weapon combo is working as intended and players should be scared of running up on a 48kph Assault 'Mech.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 01 May 2021 - 06:08 AM.

[Krasnopesky]

Vlad Ward, on 01 May 2021 - 06:06 AM, said:

All of these builds have an optimum range with perks of around 300m. I wonder how much of this perceived overperformance is the result of player tendency to bumrush so hard they practically (or sometimes literally) smash into the opfor.

A bog-standard midrange build (5- or 10-class ACs, PPCs, MRMs, RACs) can pick off these blap machines before they can get into range.

Edit: To be clear, I'd attest that this weapon combo is working as intended and players should be scared of running up on a 48kph Assault 'Mech.

I agree and this is the biggest reason why I don't personally find these builds a problem. The tonnage requirement and range makes these builds both slow and short ranged, two very punishing factors when it comes to QP.

If Snub + AC20 were a midranged build (~500m optimal) then I think it would be a major problem, but as is I have not had issues dealing with such builds.

[Ignatius Audene]

Ac20+ 3 Snub is no assault load out. U can easily get this on warhammer, Orion, marauder etc with 60+ kph. 3 ac20 Viktor would be devastating in fw. These builds might not be good in qp, but in faction running 40 is no big issue.

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 01 May 2021 - 11:09 AM.

[ShiverMeRivets]

Krasnopesky, on 30 April 2021 - 02:08 PM, said:

The total damage done isn't a problem, lots of Mechs can do over 50 damage in one alpha/double tap. Feedback we have received indicates that some people have an issue with the high pinpoint frontloaded damage, so we are addressing that concern while also making the change be positive in other ways too.

A 12% reduction in pinpoint is quite a large amount. AC20 + 3x Snub will be 44 pinpoint instead of 50. For comparison in the March patch 1x AC20 + 2x Snub could alpha for 44 points of damage while saving 6 tonnes via not bringing the third Snub Nose PPC. I did not see anyone complained about that particular combo (partly because everyone was complaining about high cooldowns and cERPPC being completely OP and broken).

The issue with current snubs is that they are too low heat - this makes taking 3 of them super easy, especially combined with ballistics - because you hardly need to mount extra DHSs. On heavy/assault IS mechs the limiting factor is usually the crit slots - lasers take few crit slots but require a few DHS that do fill the available slots quickly. SNPPC take only 2 slots each and require very few DHS for this much PPFLD and no ammo slots. Putting 3 of them on your build is super easy.

[MeanMachinE]

I think this pinpoint high damage issue could be solved just by the next mobility improvement patch. More twisting saves lives You could wait after that change if there still is a need for a fix.

[FupDup]

MeanMachinE, on 02 May 2021 - 03:58 PM, said:

I think this pinpoint high damage issue could be solved just by the next mobility improvement patch. More twisting saves lives You could wait after that change if there still is a need for a fix.

Twisting doesn't do much against PPFLD, which is a big part of what makes it such an effective damage-delivery mechanism.

[MeanMachinE]

FupDup, on 02 May 2021 - 04:03 PM, said:

Twisting doesn't do much against PPFLD, which is a big part of what makes it such an effective damage-delivery mechanism.

At the moment, you dont have the option on some mechs to offer shielding arm as the target if you notice a PPFLD mech. After the next patch this might be an option

[Vincefeld]

Pinpoint is so evil only because we play 12v12. in 8V8 it woudnt be near as instagibbing.

Yes i just want my 8v8 back

[pbiggz]

Vincefeld, on 02 May 2021 - 08:08 PM, said:

Pinpoint is so evil only because we play 12v12. in 8V8 it woudnt be near as instagibbing.

Yes i just want my 8v8 back

8V8, dropdecks, respawns.

[Dogstar]

As a mediocre player with a loyalty Victor I'm running the triple AC20 build since I saw it in TheBeef's video. It's fun if you can get into range without getting hammered beforehand but you really have to hang back until there's a brawl brewing and then get stuck in which reduces your benefit to the team. That makes it quite a feast or famine type role so if your team does well and you position well it's great, but otherwise matches in it suck. You also _have_ to chain-fire the AC20s unless you want to shut down - which is usually a bad idea in a brawl...

I also run a Corsair with a dual AC20 plus dual snub, and that's basically the same role - feast or famine brawling.

I haven't tried a AC20+3xSNPPC on the Victor but I will do so for comparison to see how it fares. More on this later.

I really like the idea of adding splash to the snub as it makes it a far more interesting weapon. I'd also be happy to see a heat limit of two on snubs and AC20s - they're hot enough that you'd rarely want to fire three together except on those odd chassis that already have ppc hsl quirks.

Edited by Dogstar, 04 May 2021 - 01:50 AM.