40 replies to this topic

[KaptinOrk]

Hello all,


I'm continuing to explore IS medium 'mechs in MWO and after being exposed to the Blackjack BJ-1 in HBS Battletech, I've decided to make the Blackjack my next project. I've really taken a liking to the little 45 tonner, it seems like it's underappreciated in the BT community as a whole and begging for some game time.

I'm currently running a BJ-1 with a "super stock" build, it's taken some getting used to, but I'm able to hold my own most games as long as I don't completely muck up my positioning. Playing a fragile, DPS 'mech like the BJ-1 has really highlighted some of my bad player habits, I hope that over time, I'll build better habits and become a better team player for it. The one major issue I have with the build is that it doesn't feel very lethal, I can do more than my fair share of damage, rack up a bunch of assists and even a few KMDDs, but I can't land killing blows to save my life, is this normal for this sort of build?

I know the other variants offer their own unique builds and playstyles, how do you run them? Do you have any tips or tricks for playing the Blackjack or similarly fragile fire support 'mechs?


Thanks!

[CFC Conky]

Welcome to the forum KaptinOrk.

As you’ve noticed, the Blackjack is squishy, so try to avoid 1v1 fights. You have a bit of range with the AC2s so use that to your advantage. Try to keep moving.

Although some BJ variants have better ballistic quirks (at least for now), you can put a bigger gun on your mech, all the way up to a Gauss rifle, so you can experiment.

I have several. I run the -1 and -1DC with an AC10 or 20 and some lasers, the -1X with various lasers, the -2 with four MRM10s or ASRM6s, the -3 with either ER or Heavy PPCs and the Arrow pretty much stock.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 18 May 2021 - 11:45 AM.

[KaptinOrk]

CFC Conky, on 18 May 2021 - 11:36 AM, said:

Welcome to the forum KaptinOrk.

As you’ve noticed, the Blackjack is squishy, so try to avoid 1v1 fights. You have a bit of range with the AC2s so use that to your advantage. Try to keep moving.

Although some BJ variants have better ballistic quirks (at least for now), you can put a bigger gun on your mech, all the way up to a Gauss rifle, so you can experiment.

I have several. I run the -1 and -1DC with an AC10 or 20 and some lasers, the -1X with various lasers, the -2 with four MRM10s or ASRM6s, the -3 with either ER or Heavy PPCs and the Arrow pretty much stock.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Regarding the AC/2+MLas BJ-1, how would you set up your skills? I'm tempted to go full cooldown and survivability, with a side of radar derp, similar to how I run my big-ballistic hunchbacks.

The BJ-2 will probably be the next variant I go for, I have good luck with MRMs on other chassis and there is a missile damage event going on at the moment.

[Leone]

Always be flanking. You're fragile enough that you lose trades, even if you can get more damage downrange. Stationary poking gameplay very much not encouraged. Now, I'm not saying don't poke, I'm saying fire and displace. The moment a mech starts looking at you, leave and get another angle, preferable on another mech whilst using terrain to block that one.

Done well you can annoy and harass getting them to turn their flank and giving your team an edge. Just, beware the fast lights. Being a medium you're not the fastest thing out there, and whilst you can outshoot them, you gotta be hyper aware when flanking to ensure you don't get ambushed.

~Leone.

[CFC Conky]

KaptinOrk, on 18 May 2021 - 12:17 PM, said:

Regarding the AC/2+MLas BJ-1, how would you set up your skills? I'm tempted to go full cooldown and survivability, with a side of radar derp, similar to how I run my big-ballistic hunchbacks.

The BJ-2 will probably be the next variant I go for, I have good luck with MRMs on other chassis and there is a missile damage event going on at the moment.

It all depends on your preferred load out. Your AC2s already fire pretty quickly but cool down would help with the lasers. I usually go down the left side of the survivability tree to get most of the armour nodes but that's it. The saved nodes can be used for other things like mobility and/or operations. Again, it depends on your weapons. I put 60% radar derp on most of my mechs, and often one node of seismic.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 18 May 2021 - 08:29 PM.

[KaptinOrk]

Leone, on 18 May 2021 - 01:21 PM, said:

Always be flanking. You're fragile enough that you lose trades, even if you can get more damage downrange. Stationary poking gameplay very much not encouraged. Now, I'm not saying don't poke, I'm saying fire and displace. The moment a mech starts looking at you, leave and get another angle, preferable on another mech whilst using terrain to block that one.

Done well you can annoy and harass getting them to turn their flank and giving your team an edge. Just, beware the fast lights. Being a medium you're not the fastest thing out there, and whilst you can outshoot them, you gotta be hyper aware when flanking to ensure you don't get ambushed.

~Leone.

Copy that, thanks for the advice. I'll work on the classic fire and maneuver tactic and see if I can apply it while staying more or less with the team.

CFC Conky, on 18 May 2021 - 08:21 PM, said:

It all depends on your preferred load out. Your AC2s already fire pretty quickly but cool down would help with the lasers. I usually go down the left side of the survivability tree to get most of the armour nodes but that's it. The saved nodes can be used for other things like mobility and/or operations. Again, it depends on your weapons. I put 60% radar derp on most of my mechs, and often one node of seismic.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Same, I put 60% radar derp on everything, it's too nice to not have and it messes with LRMers, which is always a plus. Thanks for the input.

[ScrapIron Prime]

The 1DC is actually quirked extremely well to be a lightweight brawler. We used to run them in packs, AC/20 and 4 ML. Shield with one side, shoot with the other!

https://mech.nav-alp...0ca13f2a_BJ-1DC

KaptinOrk, on 19 May 2021 - 07:33 AM, said:

Same, I put 60% radar derp on everything, it's too nice to not have and it messes with LRMers, which is always a plus. Thanks for the input.

if you’re invested with 60%, go the extra and put in for 100% radar deprivation. Instantly vanishing off radar not only keeps the rain off of you, but it limits people from picking up on and planning for your position tactically. It really is worth the extra in terms of survival.

[Leone]

I actually try to 'R' and then 'E'nemy Spotted', mechs I'm dueling or trading with if I can, just for that extra tactical planning. Granted that's after the shots are fire, so a fully Deprivation mech'll sometimes get cover and lose the lock before I can call 'em out.

Always annoying that.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 19 May 2021 - 09:14 PM.

[KaptinOrk]

ScrapIron Prime, on 19 May 2021 - 07:51 PM, said:

The 1DC is actually quirked extremely well to be a lightweight brawler. We used to run them in packs, AC/20 and 4 ML. Shield with one side, shoot with the other!

https://mech.nav-alp...0ca13f2a_BJ-1DC



if you’re invested with 60%, go the extra and put in for 100% radar deprivation. Instantly vanishing off radar not only keeps the rain off of you, but it limits people from picking up on and planning for your position tactically. It really is worth the extra in terms of survival.

I haven't really experimented with builds for the BJ-1DC yet, though that AC/20 (Boomjack?) looks good, AC/20 + MLas is such a deadly combo for how simple it is, it just works.

60% radar derp is my minimum, I often run a full 100% if the build can spare the points, it's almost like a poor man's ECM. Here is the proposed skill tree for my BJ-1, it's very similar to what I run on my ballistic Urbanmechs and Hunchbacks. I like the higher cooldown for the increased DPS on the already fast AC/2s and the survivability is there because the Blackjack is made of side torsos. I left some points unassigned to see what needs tweaking and I will reconsider the tree after mobility and quirk passes in the next few months, it might make the mobility tree more attractive.

[TheCaptainJZ]

For the BJ-1X, it used to be one of my favorite mechs. Load up on medium lasers. It's got the highest engine cap out of the BJ family so you can go all the way up to 295 iirc. Many of the variants max out at 135 iirc. Half have jump jets and half don't. The BJ line is a pretty diverse lineup and each variant has unique characteristics.

[KaptinOrk]

TheCaptainJZ, on 20 May 2021 - 01:34 PM, said:

For the BJ-1X, it used to be one of my favorite mechs. Load up on medium lasers. It's got the highest engine cap out of the BJ family so you can go all the way up to 295 iirc. Many of the variants max out at 135 iirc. Half have jump jets and half don't. The BJ line is a pretty diverse lineup and each variant has unique characteristics.

What caused it to drop out of your favorites?

[CFC Conky]

KaptinOrk, on 24 May 2021 - 05:20 AM, said:

What caused it to drop out of your favorites?

I can’t speak for TheCaptainJZ, but the Blackjack can be challenging to run in this era of big and/or ranged alphas and better mechs have come along. On the other hand, it will teach you a lot about positioning.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[CFC Conky]

By the way, do you have the Arrow?
It may not have the best quirks, but it can do a lot of things like big ballistics, PPC pop tart, LL vomit, and more, all with that sweet 30% C-bill bonus.
Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[TheCaptainJZ]

KaptinOrk, on 24 May 2021 - 05:20 AM, said:

What caused it to drop out of your favorites?

At the time, there were only about two dozen different chassis in the game. No clan mechs. Medium lasers weren't outclassed as badly as they are today. We only had 8v8. The worse thing though was PPC+gauss poptarts which could kill you pretty quick.

[KaptinOrk]

CFC Conky, on 24 May 2021 - 02:21 PM, said:

I can’t speak for TheCaptainJZ, but the Blackjack can be challenging to run in this era of big and/or ranged alphas and better mechs have come along. On the other hand, it will teach you a lot about positioning.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

That it will. Part of the reason I decided to master the Blackjacks is because they're difficult to play, my first 6-8 games with the BJ-1 ranged from "mediocre" to "I was a waste of 45 tons". Low expectations are why I like playing off-meta mediums, no one really cares if you barely pull your weight, but it's a total surprise when you hard carry a game in a weird 45 tonner. My next project will probably be the Hellspawn for this reason.

CFC Conky, on 24 May 2021 - 04:58 PM, said:

By the way, do you have the Arrow?
It may not have the best quirks, but it can do a lot of things like big ballistics, PPC pop tart, LL vomit, and more, all with that sweet 30% C-bill bonus.
Good hunting,
CFC Conky

I do have the Arrow, I waited for the complete collection to come up for sale after I decided on Blackjacks. I saw someone running an interesting SNPPC+HMG brawler build a while back and I recently saw a LLas+LMG build that looked like a nice mid-ranged skirmisher.

TheCaptainJZ, on 24 May 2021 - 06:32 PM, said:

At the time, there were only about two dozen different chassis in the game. No clan mechs. Medium lasers weren't outclassed as badly as they are today. We only had 8v8. The worse thing though was PPC+gauss poptarts which could kill you pretty quick.

Ah, this was early in the game, that makes sense. I played for a while around 2016-2017 and left when they ditched the gigaquirks. The Blackjacks feel like the Hunchbacks in a lot of ways, they're relics from a different era of game design, everyone knows what they do and how to handle them.

Edited by KaptinOrk, 25 May 2021 - 07:17 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

I still like the BJ because I like medium and heavy mechs the most. Moving at 80 kph +/-20 just feels right to me. The BJ line is still fairly nimble really. Now if we get those JJ improvements and more mobility buffs, that should help.

[KaptinOrk]

TheCaptainJZ, on 25 May 2021 - 02:38 PM, said:

I still like the BJ because I like medium and heavy mechs the most. Moving at 80 kph +/-20 just feels right to me. The BJ line is still fairly nimble really. Now if we get those JJ improvements and more mobility buffs, that should help.

I wouldn't mind a higher engine cap on some of the variants, especially on those that can boat short ranged weapons like the BJ-2 (SRMs) and the Arrow (MGs).

[TheCaptainJZ]

KaptinOrk, on 27 May 2021 - 10:28 AM, said:

I wouldn't mind a higher engine cap on some of the variants, especially on those that can boat short ranged weapons like the BJ-2 (SRMs) and the Arrow (MGs).

True, it would be nice if it was at least 250 so you don't have to slot in an extra heatsink. Could propose it to the Cauldron.

[KaptinOrk]

TheCaptainJZ, on 27 May 2021 - 03:18 PM, said:

True, it would be nice if it was at least 250 so you don't have to slot in an extra heatsink. Could propose it to the Cauldron.

I'll consider bringing it up, where would one submit that sort of feedback to them? At the same time, I'm sure they are inundated with pleas to buff a favorite 'mech or weapon system.

[VeeOt Dragon]

the BJ-3 was actually the first mech i purchased with back 4 or so years ago when i started. most of the time it sits back in mothballs but i pull it out from time to time. right now i am running it as follows

BJ-3 (4 LPPC, 2 MLs, running an LE-230 and 6 DHS with Endo (full armor -1pt in each leg.)

i often use it to test energy weapons when they do a balance change hence the current build