34 replies to this topic

[Volraththefallen]

Hats off to finally addressing an old old old map that people voted way too much for in QP. After exploring the map in Testing Grounds and playing a few matches on the new Canyon Network, I am very impressed. New spawn points encourage more tactical gameplay from players, and there is no center object brain dead nascar players can rotate around anymore.

Thank you new level designer, now the old Canyon can finally die in a fire and never come back. Anyone that likes the old map with the old spawn points can go pound sand.

The horrific stale gameplay is finally put to rest! LETS CELEBRATE BY ALL DROPPING IN TIMBERWOLVES HAHAHAHA!!!

GOOD JOB PGI!

[Wildstreak]

Don't have time to try myself but I am interested in hearing how the new design affects LRMs.

[lsp]

Lonewolf71, on 18 May 2021 - 01:16 PM, said:

Hats off to finally addressing an old old old map that people voted way too much for in QP. After exploring the map in Testing Grounds and playing a few matches on the new Canyon Network, I am very impressed. New spawn points encourage more tactical gameplay from players, and there is no center object brain dead nascar players can rotate around anymore.

Thank you new level designer, now the old Canyon can finally die in a fire and never come back. Anyone that likes the old map with the old spawn points can go pound sand.

The horrific stale gameplay is finally put to rest! LETS CELEBRATE BY ALL DROPPING IN TIMBERWOLVES HAHAHAHA!!!

GOOD JOB PGI!

I never liked the old version and I still don't like the new one either. It's a bit better, but it's still canyon. I played back when canyon was one of the few maps available and I've just played on it too much to ever like it. I don't know why people always vote to play on it in qp. It's one of the worst maps in my opinion.

Edited by lsp, 18 May 2021 - 07:54 PM.

[w0qj]

1. At least there are a lot more access ramps to the higher levels of the map... so Jump Jets plays less of a role than before...

2. Did they change the spawn points for this "New" Canyon Network?

[Ch_R0me]

Lockheed_, on 18 May 2021 - 10:24 PM, said:

I disagree. As much as I want maps to be designed to stop nascar, we have been nascaring just around different locations on map and no one wanted to be in the center because you get LURMed to death.
The maps is not superior to the old one. Or people are too stubborn to be herded into no nascar stratgies with map design

And this is why I'll opt to add mines in MwO. Just for that occasion.

Also - ECM needs to be fixed as well. Or at least add Mech Mortars and make AMS actually good against LRM.

[Meep Meep]

Wildstreak, on 18 May 2021 - 04:22 PM, said:

Don't have time to try myself but I am interested in hearing how the new design affects LRMs.

About the same as before. The biggest changes were adding in ramps and bridges not new hard cover.

[Heavy Money]

I've only had a couple matches on it, but my impression was good. Lots of ability to peak, duck into trenches to reposition or flank, etc. I was worried LRMs would be an issue, but there's lots of rocks, many of which are vertical enough to hide behind, and many more of which are enough to quickly break locks if you've got some Radar Deprivation.

[FinnMcKool]

i wont lie its a nice map
,,,,,,,,,but
the old one was one of my favorites
not just mine it was one most picked
maps in the rotation


I hope it doesn't just disappear

[Elizander]

More ramps is good. Too many parts of the map were timewasters because you had to spend minutes walking around to get back up.

[Meep Meep]

After some more play time this is a good change and has moved the fights around a bit. You still get some nascar but thats because its a natural tactic to try to get behind your enemy and if both sides are doing it then it always devolves down to a circle jerk. The only way to stop one is to get your team to stop and turn around to form a firing line.

[Saved By The Bell]

Its just another nascar map, our brains not changed.

Thats why I like Terra, Mines, Solyaris and HPG.

Canion needs BIG objects, unable to nascar (you can nascar in Solyaris and HPG, but you can hide there from movement).

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 21 May 2021 - 02:32 AM.

[Wildstreak]

w0qj, on 18 May 2021 - 10:15 PM, said:

1. At least there are a lot more access ramps to the higher levels of the map... so Jump Jets plays less of a role than before...

2. Did they change the spawn points for this "New" Canyon Network?

1 - Still one area no ramps were really added.

2 - Yes sorta.

Saved By The Bell, on 21 May 2021 - 02:28 AM, said:

Canion needs BIG objects, unable to nascar (you can nascar in Solyaris and HPG, but you can hide there from movement).

You could put big honking signs on maps saying, "IF YOU NASCAR YOU WILL LOSE PSR!" and even make changes like that to penalize people.
People will still find a way to Nascar.

Edited by Wildstreak, 21 May 2021 - 05:32 AM.

[kapusta11]

My take after playing for a while is that spawns need to be changed. Low iq people are the majority and they keep rotating clockwise except one team ends up in the death valley and the other takes D5 corner, arguably the best spot to form a firing line. Suggestions about overwatching from the dumpster or, heavens forbid, rotating left are met with "Negative" response.

Edited by kapusta11, 30 May 2021 - 09:09 AM.

[martian]

kapusta11, on 30 May 2021 - 09:09 AM, said:

...
Suggestions about overwatching from the dumpster or, heavens forbid, rotating left are met with "Negative" response.

You do not have to even try ...

[Bobby Bang]

New version is lame compared to the orig. Also, what's the deal with removing all the small slivers of edge area up on the surrounding lip that were not out of bounds? so boring so vanilla. Hope the new guy does a better job on the next map, this first try lowered the quality of the game experience.

[R Valentine]

Meep Meep, on 21 May 2021 - 02:07 AM, said:

After some more play time this is a good change and has moved the fights around a bit. You still get some nascar but thats because its a natural tactic to try to get behind your enemy and if both sides are doing it then it always devolves down to a circle jerk. The only way to stop one is to get your team to stop and turn around to form a firing line.

There's nothing "natural" about it. It's just idiots running in circles with no goal or plan in mind. They do it simply because they don't know how to do anything else. You'll never see a comp match devolve into nascar.

[PocketYoda]

I dunno i haven't had a chance to try it... Every time it pops now everyone votes for the other maps.. That in itself imo counts as a failure in an update to me.

Wiping the top clear and turning it into another polar map was a massive mistake imo. But hey as i've not had chance to try it what do i know.

[Meep Meep]

Kiran Yagami, on 30 May 2021 - 02:16 PM, said:

There's nothing "natural" about it. It's just idiots running in circles with no goal or plan in mind. They do it simply because they don't know how to do anything else. You'll never see a comp match devolve into nascar.

Because a competitive match is filled with people specifically used to working as a team and there will be a caller using voip to direct the action. In quick play there is no organization, no caller, no teamwork. All you have are 24 randoms all trying to get into the rear or flank of the other team and that 'naturally' devolves into a nascar. When I feel arsed to try I will use voip or chat to say hey guys lets not nascar this time or lets nascar to the left and meet them head on. That sometimes works but mostly they just ignore me and do what they always do. I've never understood how people keep thinking organized comp play is in any way the same as the brownian motion in quick play.

[Nightbird]

Kiran Yagami, on 30 May 2021 - 02:16 PM, said:

There's nothing "natural" about it. It's just idiots running in circles with no goal or plan in mind. They do it simply because they don't know how to do anything else. You'll never see a comp match devolve into nascar.

Well, soldiers have been rotating counter-clockwise for thousands of years.

https://hetairoi.de/...assical-hoplite

Quote

Since most armies tended to place their best troops on the right side of their formation, the formations were often rotating counter-clockwise during the battle.

[Surefoot]

Nightbird, on 30 May 2021 - 10:43 PM, said:

Well, soldiers have been rotating counter-clockwise for thousands of years.

https://hetairoi.de/...assical-hoplite

They did rotate as a group though. Not the caterpillar-of-stupid that leaves the heaviest part of your team die a painful death in the rear as they are doomed to either turn and fight a losing battle, or try and run but get shot in the back. Nascar in QP is specifically people going as fast as they can creating this conga line you see in most losing matches.
New canyon is not as egregious in that way as say, Caustic, but people still do laps around the map on the side canyons, or in some cases engage into that d4 ramp and find out there's no cover near the exit (as opposed to the old version) and get killed in there by opposing team that takes the high ground.

Edited by Surefoot, 30 May 2021 - 11:23 PM.