82 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Dauntless Blint, on 31 May 2021 - 06:30 AM, said:

My personal view is you are the least tanky mech on the field (assaults in general) as you are near impossible to miss and can't move worth a damn. Can't even peak really.

do you think assaults need to be scaled down in size?

I think a large part of the problem with assaults is theyre way too big

its fair to assume they have the same density as light mechs so their volume doesnt really make sense for their weight. assaults should only be 3-4 times larger than a light. a direwolf should only be about 3 times bigger than a jenner or about 5 times bigger than a piranha.

but since a rescaling is unlikely the best we can probably hope for is armor buffs.

Edited by Khobai, 31 May 2021 - 10:21 AM.

[RickySpanish]

Yup Assaults are a bit big. Dire Wolf really exemplifies this - you needn't even attempt to isolate a weak torso, just aim at the middle and you will hit CT first time, every time. Still, a well played Dire Wolf is just about the most powerful 'Mech on the battlefield, so there's that.

[Lances107]

On the off chance that the op is still tracking this thread.

The direwolf can have some solid builds but its main handicap is the same as the timber wolf it has terrible hit boxes for the torsos and ct. I see a direwolf coming my way, I get a smile, because its so easy to punch out the right and left torsos. Same with the Timber wolf. In the end Keep if for nothing else to screw around with, maybe some day the devs might actually make it competitive who knows. If your looking for a full time clan assault. The Marauder IIC and the MkII are excellent choices. Though I wouldn't brawl in a Mrk II if your thinking about uping your game.

[LordNothing]

Khobai, on 30 May 2021 - 05:54 PM, said:

speed tweak is definitely not good on a direwolf

you have to give up too much out of the other trees to get speed tweak

again just play a kodiak



neither of those addresses the direwolfs biggest problem though. the problem is its too slow.

there are ways of addressing it to an extent like fixing the spawn points and fixing the maps so they dont encourage nascaring. and thats what PGI needs to do.

funny you should quote both of these things, since the former fixes the latter. you can get your dire up to 52 which is just about the threshold of usability for assault mechs. while 4kph is not a lot, especially considering the node investment required. but most of the nodes on the way are the ones you need to fight off light mechs (this is also where the low hardpoints are an advantage). you usually have enough nodes to populate the survival tree and relevant nodes in the weapons tree (for the 8xcac2 build, namely the ammo, cd, velocity and range nodes on the ballistic side of the tree). ops and heat nodes are usually not required for this build, and a couple nodes of radar derp are enough.

normal meta parlance is to select nodes that stack against a mech's quirks. and this certainly goes against the grain, but it works in practice (especially on an 8x cac2 build). stay low and avoid visual detection until you get into position, and once there you should be fine. if lights come for you, use that extra agility and low hardpoints to dispatch them. if you are forced to brawl, you have the firepower regardless of how invested you are in the weapons tree.

Edited by LordNothing, 31 May 2021 - 10:08 PM.

[PocketYoda]

Khobai, on 30 May 2021 - 05:54 PM, said:

speed tweak is definitely not good on a direwolf

you have to give up too much out of the other trees to get speed tweak

again just play a kodiak



neither of those addresses the direwolfs biggest problem though. the problem is its too slow.

there are ways of addressing it to an extent like fixing the spawn points and fixing the maps so they dont encourage nascaring. and thats what PGI needs to do.

You are wrong i gave up nothing by adding speed tweak and kodiaks are crap, they die twice as fast with their gigantic core exposed at all times..

[Mark Yore]

Gas Guzzler, on 30 May 2021 - 02:37 PM, said:

The Dire Wolf can do several builds the KDK-3 cannot, and soon will add JJs and ECM to the mix. That said, it can still be balanced through proper quirks,

I have tried running the DW with jumpjets, because getting stuck on a rock or being unable to get up any sort of incline just gets so frustrating. With two JJs the DW can leap over pebbles.

[Mark Yore]

martian, on 29 May 2021 - 03:09 AM, said:

For new players it is not so easy to just sell one 'Mech and to buy other one. Especially if we are talking about costly Clan Assault 'Mechs.

I have two Madcat IIB's (I got the freebie the week after I bought the first one). I love them both to pieces and they have just enough speed to make a difference.

[Mark Yore]

Lances107, on 31 May 2021 - 01:04 PM, said:

On the off chance that the op is still tracking this thread.

The direwolf can have some solid builds but its main handicap is the same as the timber wolf it has terrible hit boxes for the torsos and ct. I see a direwolf coming my way, I get a smile, because its so easy to punch out the right and left torsos. Same with the Timber wolf. In the end Keep if for nothing else to screw around with, maybe some day the devs might actually make it competitive who knows. If your looking for a full time clan assault. The Marauder IIC and the MkII are excellent choices. Though I wouldn't brawl in a Mrk II if your thinking about uping your game.

I have a flying laser Viper, a Flea FA and an SRM stealth Javelin that love these Assaults that can't spin fast enough. Whenever I see an Annihilator by itself I just hug it 'til it dies because it can't reach down to hit me.

The problem is the speed with the DireWolf. It ends up out of position because it can't catch up to the rest of the mechs.

And I really like my Madcat IIBs.

[Mark Yore]

Dauntless Blint, on 31 May 2021 - 06:30 AM, said:

My personal view is you are the least tanky mech on the field (assaults in general) as you are near impossible to miss and can't move worth a damn. Can't even peak really.

I've had a few matches recently on the large open maps where the LRM rain doesn't stop once they see me, and I'm too slow to find a place to hide. So it's 20 seconds of being pummelled and then you get to watch everyone else.

[Khobai]

LordNothing, on 31 May 2021 - 10:02 PM, said:

funny you should quote both of these things, since the former fixes the latter. you can get your dire up to 52 which is just about the threshold of usability for assault mechs.

52 is still way too slow for an assault. thats why im using a blood asp because it goes 64. and I dont have to commit any points to speed tweak. I can put my points where they belong on an assault: firepower, survivability, and operations. NOT MOBILITY.

the blood asp also gets endosteel unlike the direwolf so its basically like a 95 ton mech. So youre really only losing like 5 tons compared to a direwolf. But you go so much faster. Combine that with its high hardpoints and the blood asp is just a straight up better mech.

The problem is that the dire wolf is just plain bad. its straight up worse than other assaults. whether its the kodiak, bloodasp, madcat MK2, etc... because they all get endosteel while the direwolf doesnt. and they get bigger engines while the direwolf doesnt.

the direwolf needs MAJOR compensation for not having endosteel or a bigger engine. For starters it needs quirks that give it the equivalent of 4-5 extra tons of armor/heatsinks, etc... to make up for not having endosteel because thats a massive disadvantage for a clan mech. It also needs additional compensation for how slow it is because slow is bad in MWO.

I do think the direwolf can be as good as other clan assaults but PGI has to get over their irrational fear of not giving clan mechs quirks. Some clan mechs really need them badly.

Edited by Khobai, 01 June 2021 - 10:52 AM.

[Alex Morgaine]

Mark Yore, on 01 June 2021 - 07:59 AM, said:

I've had a few matches recently on the large open maps where the LRM rain doesn't stop once they see me, and I'm too slow to find a place to hide. So it's 20 seconds of being pummelled and then you get to watch everyone else.

Getting legged via nothing but missiles does suck (in the group even the pain). Not even getting to let a volley off due to range is even worse ;_;


Edit: I'm running near full leg armor, i think 2 or 4 pts off.

Edited by Alex Morgaine, 01 June 2021 - 03:31 PM.

[LordNothing]

Khobai, on 01 June 2021 - 10:38 AM, said:

52 is still way too slow for an assault. thats why im using a blood asp because it goes 64. and I dont have to commit any points to speed tweak. I can put my points where they belong on an assault: firepower, survivability, and operations. NOT MOBILITY.

the blood asp also gets endosteel unlike the direwolf so its basically like a 95 ton mech. So youre really only losing like 5 tons compared to a direwolf. But you go so much faster. Combine that with its high hardpoints and the blood asp is just a straight up better mech.

The problem is that the dire wolf is just plain bad. its straight up worse than other assaults. whether its the kodiak, bloodasp, madcat MK2, etc... because they all get endosteel while the direwolf doesnt. and they get bigger engines while the direwolf doesnt.

the direwolf needs MAJOR compensation for not having endosteel or a bigger engine. For starters it needs quirks that give it the equivalent of 4-5 extra tons of armor/heatsinks, etc... to make up for not having endosteel because thats a massive disadvantage for a clan mech. It also needs additional compensation for how slow it is because slow is bad in MWO.

I do think the direwolf can be as good as other clan assaults but PGI has to get over their irrational fear of not giving clan mechs quirks. Some clan mechs really need them badly.

idk about that, endo steel is only worth about 5 tons for 100 tonners. it is often ommited on 100 ton battlemech builds anyway to free up crit slots. if that option was available on the dire i still wouldnt use it. podspace is not this mech's problem not by a long shot. if the thing had endo you wouldn't be able to install any useful loadout because it would be eating up 7 slots. the fact that it has an xl engine makes up for the lack of endo.

most is assaults would be running an lfe or std engine and no upgrades. if this were an is mech, and there was no engine cap, id actually upgrade the engine to get my spead up to at least 60, but then that would seriously eat into my firepower budget. those nodes are equivalent to an upgrade to a cxl 325, and that in turn is worth 3.5 tons.

it all comes down to effective strategies for dealing with light mechs. the survivability nodes can only give you a big of endurance against those squirrels. they do not help you defeat the squirrel. maybe you get lucky and a team mate shoots it off of you. but more than likely your survival will be in your own hands, and in that case id rather be able to get my guns on target than to be able to soak up a few more shots. now you dont want to fight squirrels, but being able to handle them is the difference between being on the firing line, or a smoldering ruin half way between the firing line and spawn.

just remember you dont have to be the fastest mech, you just have to be faster than the slowest mech. i often feel sorry for the dire that did not get his speed tweak. it may not be a dire, there are plenty of annihilators and fafnirs and king crabs that never break 50.

Edited by LordNothing, 02 June 2021 - 05:54 AM.

[Khobai]

LordNothing, on 02 June 2021 - 05:53 AM, said:

idk about that, endo steel is only worth about 5 tons for 100 tonners. it is often ommited on 100 ton battlemech builds anyway to free up crit slots. if that option was available on the dire i still wouldnt use it. podspace is not this mech's problem not by a long shot. if the thing had endo you wouldn't be able to install any useful loadout because it would be eating up 7 slots. the fact that it has an xl engine makes up for the lack of endo.

most is assaults would be running an lfe or std engine and no upgrades. if this were an is mech, and there was no engine cap, id actually upgrade the engine to get my spead up to at least 60, but then that would seriously eat into my firepower budget. those nodes are equivalent to an upgrade to a cxl 325, and that in turn is worth 3.5 tons.

it all comes down to effective strategies for dealing with light mechs. the survivability nodes can only give you a big of endurance against those squirrels. they do not help you defeat the squirrel. maybe you get lucky and a team mate shoots it off of you. but more than likely your survival will be in your own hands, and in that case id rather be able to get my guns on target than to be able to soak up a few more shots. now you dont want to fight squirrels, but being able to handle them is the difference between being on the firing line, or a smoldering ruin half way between the firing line and spawn.

just remember you dont have to be the fastest mech, you just have to be faster than the slowest mech. i often feel sorry for the dire that did not get his speed tweak. it may not be a dire, there are plenty of annihilators and fafnirs and king crabs that never break 50.

the direwolf is a 100 tonner. its being denied 5 tons by not having endosteel.

virtually every clan assault I play uses endosteel. whether its a kodiak, madcat mk2, bloodasp, etc... because assaults typically need tonnage way more than they need crit slots

my madcat mk2 uses both endosteel and ferrofibrous. because the extra tonnage is used to up the engine rating.

so I dont see why the direwolf shouldnt get compensated for not having endosteel. its absolutely a huge disadvantage. along with not being able to increase its engine rating. the direwolf suffers all of the worst disadvantages of being an omnimech. it should absolutely get compensated for that. even moreso since its absolutely massive and has protruding CT geometry which makes its CT get hit easily.

Quote

just remember you dont have to be the fastest mech, you just have to be faster than the slowest mech. i often feel sorry for the dire that did not get his speed tweak.

im not wasting like 24 skill points to get max speed tweak just to go 4kph faster. its asanine to do that in a direwolf.

instead i just wont play a direwolf and ill play a blood asp. because its a way better mech and it goes 64kph without needing speed tweak. until the direwolf is every bit as good as a blood asp I see no point in using a direwolf.

Edited by Khobai, 02 June 2021 - 06:20 AM.

[LordNothing]

Khobai, on 02 June 2021 - 06:02 AM, said:

the direwolf is a 100 tonner. its being denied 5 tons by not having endosteel.

i dont put endo on 100 tonners if given a choice. they are always starved for slots and tonnage is practically free. law of the minimum.

Edited by LordNothing, 02 June 2021 - 06:03 AM.

[Khobai]

regardless of whether you would do it or not, the very fact the dire wolf cant choose to use endo, is worth compensation.

having the choice to use endosteel is better than not having the choice at all.

just like having the choice to use a bigger engine is better than not having the choice at all.

those are drawbacks of being an omnimech and the direwolf suffers the absolute worst of those drawbacks by being stuck with the slowest engine possible and not having endosteel.

whereas other assaults like the blood asp actually benefit way more from being an omnimech because it gets both endosteel and a much faster engine. the bloodasp is just a straight up better mech in almost every way. It gets all the best aspects of being an omnimech with few of the downsides.

the bloodasp also has much better survivability since its got way higher hardpoints and doesnt have to expose itself as much for its guns to clear terrain.

so again the direwolf needs to compare favorably to other assaults like the bloodasp. when thats been accomplished it means the direwolf is properly balanced with other assaults.

Edited by Khobai, 02 June 2021 - 06:35 AM.

[LordNothing]

still my dires perform for me better than the blood asps do. maybe im using them wrong, idk. the dire is still a beast. my best dire has 29% more brownie points than my best blood asp.

Edited by LordNothing, 02 June 2021 - 06:44 AM.

[Leone]

Have you never piloted an Urbie!? You should try the Urbie, they're hilarious.

So... you know, you don't hafta drop inna Daishi if'n you don't want to. If you like the battlemechs, take the battlemechs. Omnimechs get to choose omnipods, battlemcechs can swap engines. Both have their considerations.

~Leone.

[Khobai]

LordNothing, on 02 June 2021 - 06:38 AM, said:

still my dires perform for me better than the blood asps do. maybe im using them wrong, idk. the dire is still a beast. my best dire has 29% more brownie points than my best blood asp.

im not sure why you wouldnt want the direwolf to get buffs then.

if you do well it in it already and it gets buffed, youll do better in it.

but the way I see it the direwolf needs buffs because it lacks the favorable characteristics that other assaults like the blood asp possess.

Quote

So... you know, you don't hafta drop inna Daishi if'n you don't want to. If you like the battlemechs, take the battlemechs. Omnimechs get to choose omnipods, battlemcechs can swap engines. Both have their considerations.

absolutely. but omnimechs with bigger engines are typically way better than omnimechs with smaller engines. because speed is such a highly valued characteristic.

omnimechs with slow engines suffer the WORST downsides of being omnimechs.

Edited by Khobai, 02 June 2021 - 01:51 PM.

[LordNothing]

thing is if you can get a dire on a firing line, you can do a lot of work with it. so my builds and node allocation are chosen to enable that. getting there is the hard part.

il admit that armor nodes are essential in a trading fight, but thats not really how you use a dire. you can put so much lead down range that it tends to keep heads down. you have to use suppression to make up for its hill hump deficiencies and how hard it is to get that thing into cover.

i think my uv build still manages to get most of the armor nodes, its mostly the ops tree that takes the hit. but with how cool 8x cac2s run, you really dont need it. you can sustain suppression for a really long time, and with 16 sinks, it doesn't take much idle time to cool off.

i think when the new dire variants come out im going to convert my uv into a maximum atm build, and put the ballistic hardpoints on the ecm variant. its going to need some node reallocation, but it has so much xp on the thing that i wont blink twice.

Edited by LordNothing, 02 June 2021 - 06:09 PM.

[Zordicron]

OP,
The DWF is still in time out for being a bad boy and being massively powerful when it released during clan invasion. Tryhards cried, and cried: "Oh PGI, the big bad DWF dakka'd me and took my candy!" and so, like a few other chassis, the DWF had all it's quirks removed.
And then they Omega Nerfed mech agility in general. Then a few mechs got some back in quirks because the omega nerf had ruined the only way to keep them alive.
Not DWF though, it was still in the naughty corner.

Anyway, back when it released I loaded one(or more?) of them with 4x UAC10's. Then I put a STUPID amount of tiny lasers in the arm pods. I don;t remember if you can fit 8 of them in there... maybe it was 10. Meh. Anyway, the point of those was for the lights. Lights came knocking, so yo do the elephant dance back and forth in reverse until you are against a wall. If you are lucky, the light will mess up, and you will vaporize some or all of it with your laserfists. If you aren't, at least once you are at a wall, the lights can;t be quite so bold and maybe a team mate will come help.

In todays game, asking a team mate to be a bodyguard for your walking turret is like pulling teeth. The mood seems to be very yolo and me first. If you try a quad UAC10 loadout, just remember you aren;t trying to play peek a boo. No trades with the guy 800M down wind with his ERPPC's. you are too fat and he will shoot, and hide to cool down. No, you need to play this DWF like a Surprise Atlas. Whats a Surprise Atlas? haha, Surprise Atlas is best Atlas. You can probably find some guides about that somewhere. But this is the same, you wait until some poor fool peeks over a ridge at you and you unload double clicking fury of dakka, ghost heat etc be damned, and blow half his mech away in seconds. Then you cool down, and fall back so wise guy pop tarters or something or a light pack or like 4 UAV's don;t give you away.
Worst comes to worst, alpha strike double clicks and laserfists into the CT of whatever is in front of you before you get overwhelmed.

Sometimes you get ganked because you are fat. Sometimes, your fatness roflganks some poor ******* or three or four before the match ends. Its positioning, and a little luck. I used to pick out mediums and certain heavy mechs on the fringe of their group to suprise. Why? Because a volley of dakka like that will cripple them in one go and compromise their whole contribution for the match. Your job isn't to square off against the enemy assault lance. Not in a DWF. Your job is to insta-mangle their support.