41 replies to this topic

[fattbattz]

After the agility buff to my Jade Kite i dusted it off and went out armed up with UAC 2s. I was getting jams very very often. After double checking my skill tree i went out to test them again, they seem to jam way more often if double click on the 1st shot instead of holding down the mouse button for a few seconds. I saw 4 out of 5 guns jam at the same time way to often.

[martian]

fattbattz, on 29 May 2021 - 11:07 AM, said:

After the agility buff to my Jade Kite i dusted it off and went out armed up with UAC 2s. I was getting jams very very often. After double checking my skill tree i went out to test them again, they seem to jam way more often if double click on the 1st shot instead of holding down the mouse button for a few seconds. I saw 4 out of 5 guns jam at the same time way to often.

The April MWO Patch has actually improved UAC-2 stats, jam chance included.

Read this, please:

Quote

Ultra AC2 (Clan and IS):

• Heat decreased to 0.7 (from 0.8)
  
• Jam chance decreased to 16% (from 17%) (Clan Only)
  
• Jam duration decreased to 2.75 (from 3.75) (Clan Only)

Notes: UAC2s are often a less preferable choice compared to standard AC2s, due to their inconsistent damage output, and high heat per damage. In this patch UAC2s have received a lower heat generation stats, along with lower jam chance and jam duration to improve upon the above-mentioned shortcomings.

[justcallme A S H]

UAC2s jam less... I've been using them a bit. So they are quite nice, you get a mega burst now.

While 1% doesn't sound like much it is over time a nice buff. That and the duration drop.

[Wildstreak]

Still better than the UAC5 CD bug.

[Khobai]

I feel like CUAC2s outperform CUAC5s right now IMO. And im not sure I like that.

CUAC2s do like 3.3 dps now while CUAC5s only do 3.4dps and the CUAC2s have better range, velocity, and weigh 2 tons less while not having any ghost heat!

I dont think thats balanced very well. the CUAC5 seems underwhelming at the moment. why do CUAC5s still have ghost heat? their dps is not significantly better than CUAC2s. And its not like you can boat more than 4-5 of them anyway. I feel like CUAC5s should lose their ghost heat limit and their jam duration should be lowered so the CUAC5 does reasonably more dps than the CUAC2. 6.5s jam duration is just too high for CUAC5s now that CUAC2s only have a 2.75s jam duration

I also think CUAC10s are a little underwhelming. Because you can take two CUAC2s for the same tonnage as a CUAC10. And have better dps, better range, better velocity, and better consistency. Why do CUAC10s need to have an atrocious 8s jam time though? 8s is horrendous. that needs to be lowered as well.

I am pretty happy with the UAC20 right now though.

CUAC5/10s still need further balancing though IMO. Their jam durations are both way too long.

I mean how does it make sense that the UAC5 stays jammed as long as the UAC20 now? Or that the UAC10 stays jammed even longer than the UAC20? That needs to be fixed. Smaller caliber UACs should jam for less time than the larger caliber ones.

Edited by Khobai, 30 May 2021 - 06:08 AM.

[KodiakGW]

Sounds like you have the same RNG luck that I have. Reason why I’m still hoping that they make Clan AC and LBX 2s and 5s the same number of slots as UACs. They don’t exist as separate weapons in the TRO, so they don’t need to keep to that for hardpoints.

[Khobai]

KodiakGW, on 30 May 2021 - 06:18 AM, said:

Sounds like you have the same RNG luck that I have. Reason why I’m still hoping that they make Clan AC and LBX 2s and 5s the same number of slots as UACs. They don’t exist as separate weapons in the TRO, so they don’t need to keep to that for hardpoints.

CACs should actually be LESS tonnage than CUACs. Because the ISACs are less tonnage (and sometimes less slots) than the ISUACs

if you compare the ISACs to the ISUACs then give the CACs the same tonnage/crit reductions as the ISACs you get:

CAC2s should be 1 slot and 4 tons (instead of 2 slots and 5 tons)
CAC5s should be 2 slots and 6 tons (instead of 3 lots and 7 tons)
CAC10s should be 4 slots and 9 tons (instead of 4 slots and 10 tons)
CAC20s should be 8 slots and 11 tons (instead of 8 slots and 12 tons)

Unless CACs weigh less than CUACs theres not a whole lot of incentive to use them.

Edited by Khobai, 30 May 2021 - 06:45 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Khobai, on 30 May 2021 - 05:35 AM, said:

I feel like CUAC2s outperform CUAC5s right now IMO. And im not sure I like that.

lol...

cUAC5 at 600m is insane over cUAC2s

And that is the entire purpose. cUAC5 is solid at ranges that do not quite cUAC2

Imagine cUAC2 being great at all ranges? Why pick anything else... Come on

[Khobai]

justcallme A S H, on 30 May 2021 - 09:42 AM, said:

lol...

cUAC5 at 600m is insane over cUAC2s

And that is the entire purpose. cUAC5 is solid at ranges that do not quite cUAC2

Imagine cUAC2 being great at all ranges? Why pick anything else... Come on

Once again... CUAC2s are doing very nearly the same dps as CUAC5s. 3.3 dps for CUAC2s vs 3.4 dps for CUAC5s

And the CUAC2s have better range, better velocity, weigh 2 less tons, take up less crit slots, are more consistent with not jamming, and have no ghost heat

CUAC5s are not "insane" compared to CUAC2s at 600m. not anymore. Because you can boat way more CUAC2s than CUAC5s and end up doing the same or more pinpoint damage than CUAC5s do. Since CUAC5s are ghost heat limited at 3 and CUAC2s have no ghost heat limit at all.

Again the ghost heat limit of 3 on CUAC5s needs to be removed. And CUAC5s should jam less often than CUAC20s. If you think its okay for CUAC5s to jam as long as the CUAC20 you are crazy. Lower caliber autocannons should absolutely have lower jam durations than higher caliber autocannons.

Quote

Imagine cUAC2 being great at all ranges?

I didnt say the CUAC2 was great at all ranges. I just said it was better than the CUAC5 (and arguably the CUAC10) right now. And the stats support that. but the CUAC2 isnt as good as the CUAC20 ton for ton.

its better than the CUAC5 for all the reasons stated above. Its better than the CUAC10 because the CUAC10 has an absurd 8s jam duration that makes it ridiculous. 8s? really? the CUAC20 only jams 6.5s... why does the CUAC10 jam longer than the CUAC20? again that makes no sense.

These are facts. You can look at the weapon stats yourself.

Edited by Khobai, 30 May 2021 - 11:06 AM.

[KodiakGW]

Khobai, on 30 May 2021 - 06:31 AM, said:

CAC2s should be 1 slot and 4 tons (instead of 2 slots and 5 tons)
CAC5s should be 2 slots and 6 tons (instead of 3 lots and 7 tons)
CAC10s should be 4 slots and 9 tons (instead of 4 slots and 10 tons)
CAC20s should be 8 slots and 11 tons (instead of 8 slots and 12 tons)

Exactly. But even my idea of making them equal to equivalent UACs has been soundly rejected. Even when giving the reason why they were more in the TRO was because of the ammo switching mechanism, which is logical. Not logical Clan AC2 is three slots when IS is one.

Maybe the will listen to you. I'd just like them to be equal and see what happens. Bet they will get more use without becoming OP.

Also, my comment was directed at OP.

Edit: Just read the response to your posts. Yeah, guess they won't listen to you either. Maybe I can convince one of their teammates next time I play since he accepted my friend invite. Take the idea as his own and see if it gains traction.

Edited by KodiakGW, 30 May 2021 - 11:17 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Khobai, on 30 May 2021 - 10:05 AM, said:

CUAC5s are not "insane" compared to CUAC2s at 600m. not anymore

Try them. I have.

The still absolutely dunk as they did before. cUAC5s are still strong, strong strong.

I mean run a 5 cUAC5 BASP then come tell me cUAC2s are better. Utter nonsense.


Contrarian as always.

[Khobai]

Quote

I mean run a 5 cUAC5 BASP then come tell me cUAC2s are better. Utter nonsense.

its not nonsense. 7 CUAC2s are better than 5 CUAC5s in a tonnage equivalent comparison.

if the direwolf was on par with the blood asp in every other way it would be obvious

5 CUAC5s is 40 tons and have ghost heat if you fire more than 3.

7 CUAC2s is 42 tons but youre doing way more dps, with more range, more velocity, less jamming, and less crit slots. And you can fire all 7 with no ghost heat.

I would also argue that a blood asp with x5 CUAC2s and 3 lasers in the right arm is just as good if not better than a blood asp with x5 CUAC5s and no lasers. using CUAC2s over CUAC5s frees up the tonnage to let you run 3 lasers in the right arm as well as more DHS which you failed to account for in your comparison.

so dont tell me the CUAC2s arnt better ton for ton because they absolutely are. its just the dire wolf is a terrible mech compared to the blood asp because of how slow it is. if there was a faster platform that could run 7+ CUAC2s it would be absolutely obvious how much better they are than CUAC5s.

Im not saying the CUAC5s need much of a buff. Just reduce the jam chance so its not the same as the CUAC20. And remove the ghost heat. If x8 CUAC2s have no ghost heat theres no reason 4+ CUAC5s should have ghost heat.

Edited by Khobai, 30 May 2021 - 06:44 PM.

[R Valentine]

Still better than clan UAC/10s, which jam on the first tap half the time. I took my dakka NTG out again and the first 5 trigger pulls of the match were all jams. Why even bother giving it double tap ability? I can't even make them fire twice in a row before jamming.

[Khobai]

Kiran Yagami, on 30 May 2021 - 11:45 AM, said:

Still better than clan UAC/10s, which jam on the first tap half the time. I took my dakka NTG out again and the first 5 trigger pulls of the match were all jams. Why even bother giving it double tap ability? I can't even make them fire twice in a row before jamming.

I agree.

they jam for 8s too which is ridiculous

jamming durations should at most be like:

2.75s for CUAC2
5.5s for CUAC5 (down from 6.5s) and remove the ghost heat limit of 3
6.0s for CUAC10 (down from 8s)
6.5s for CUAC20

Edited by Khobai, 30 May 2021 - 12:12 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Kiran Yagami, on 30 May 2021 - 11:45 AM, said:

Still better than clan UAC/10s, which jam on the first tap half the time. I took my dakka NTG out again and the first 5 trigger pulls of the match were all jams. Why even bother giving it double tap ability? I can't even make them fire twice in a row before jamming.

Thats odd. I was watching a baradul vid and he was running a 2x cuac10 fit and he jammed both on the double tap 5 times in a row too and it didn't get much better after that with one or the other jamming. Might be something to look into cauldron team.

[Psycho da Clown]

Meep Meep, on 30 May 2021 - 11:55 AM, said:

Thats odd. I was watching a baradul vid and he was running a 2x cuac10 fit and he jammed both on the double tap 5 times in a row too and it didn't get much better after that with one or the other jamming. Might be something to look into cauldron team.

Saw that same Baradul video - began game with double jams five times in a row on 2 x uac 10. That's why I clicked on this thread in fact.

( actually it was just four times in a row. still insane. )



"

Edited by Psycho da Clown, 30 May 2021 - 12:39 PM.

[FupDup]

Kiran Yagami, on 30 May 2021 - 11:45 AM, said:

Still better than clan UAC/10s, which jam on the first tap half the time. I took my dakka NTG out again and the first 5 trigger pulls of the match were all jams. Why even bother giving it double tap ability? I can't even make them fire twice in a row before jamming.

Side-note: I've found that having UACs bound to any button other than left click greatly reduces (maybe even eliminates) the incidents of first-click jamming. I think the reason is that sometimes your left click gets counted as two clicks instead of one (latency or something mechanical, I dunno), but right click never seems to have the double-click issue.

[s0da72]

This is one game mechanic that I wish they would change. It is so frustrating to use the clan U/ACs based on a jam RNG chance that can happen at anytime. During matches I constantly run into times where I just accidentally double tap and have it jam. I wish they would just change the mechanic to something else. Either add extra heat if your double tapping or maybe have it work like RACs where you have a bar to indicate if you're double tapping too much and it bar fills up it starts to jam.

[Moldur]

Just remember that chainfiring activates the same UAC instead of going to the next one in the chain. Any chain fired groups you have, split them into 2 non overlapping groups. It's kinda annoying.

[Khobai]

s0da72, on 30 May 2021 - 02:45 PM, said:

This is one game mechanic that I wish they would change. It is so frustrating to use the clan U/ACs based on a jam RNG chance that can happen at anytime. During matches I constantly run into times where I just accidentally double tap and have it jam. I wish they would just change the mechanic to something else. Either add extra heat if your double tapping or maybe have it work like RACs where you have a bar to indicate if you're double tapping too much and it bar fills up it starts to jam.

UACs dont even need to jam at all. Just make UACs do more dps with more heat and fire in multiple bursts (bigger UACs only). And make regular ACs have more range and velocity and fire in single bursts. Thats sufficient to differentiate the two.

Jamming isnt fun and adds nothing beneficial to the weapon other than making them beyond frustrating to use.

Edited by Khobai, 30 May 2021 - 05:44 PM.