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My Most Lop-Sided Match Maker Game, Ever


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#21 grim spider

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Posted 03 June 2021 - 08:51 AM

View PostBud Crue, on 03 June 2021 - 03:32 AM, said:


Tonnage is not the issue with the match maker it’s the distribution of skilled players on the teams. I’m too lazy to do the Jarl’s List break down, but I suspect that the performance % of the players on each team in this case is probably pretty close here on average. It is those occasions when the MM puts a preponderance of high % players all on one team, while building the other of Cadets and middling % players on the other, that I take issue with the MM. I too will whine about a tonnage disparity after being on the losing end of a stomp, especially when my team has multiple players that just didn’t perform well, but honestly I find that the tonnage disparity is largely irrelevant most of the time.


Skill should not decide the outcome of a match. The lore is essential and must be considered as well.

#22 Bud Crue

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Posted 03 June 2021 - 11:40 AM

___ said:

1622739073[/url]' post='6408539']

Skill should not decide the outcome of a match. The lore is essential and must be considered as well.


Plot armor consumable?

Edited by Bud Crue, 03 June 2021 - 11:43 AM.


#23 1453 R

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Posted 03 June 2021 - 11:46 AM

Naw - just whoever can beat everybody else to all the 1337-est LoreWarrior names. If you don't have a name from the books, you're a nobody grunt and it's your job to get mowed down by whoever managed to snag a lore name.

If you're lucky, Piranha institutes a Bloodname-esque system that allows nameless grunts to forcibly take a Lore Name from the previous holder through victory in combat, but that'd require people to dip their toes in Filthy Clannerism, so prolly not. You're just lucky enough to get a lore name before anybody else does, really.

#24 Vlad Ward

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Posted 03 June 2021 - 11:46 AM

I vote that all players with canon lore usernames be given immediate 'Plot Armor' quirks on all 'Mechs associated, in lore, with those pilots.

As the canonical pilot of the TBR-WAR, I demand double hardpoint quirks, quadrupled armor, HSL immunity, +100% heat capacity, +100% heat dissipation, and a custom melee animation which involves the use of the chicken-toes to claw out an opponent's cockpit. This is undodgeable and locks the opposing player in place when used, of course.

#25 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 03 June 2021 - 01:06 PM

I fully support any effort that results in more canonical pilot names. Its a vital part of my MWO drinking game!

Look... another Kerensky! Drink!

(Please lurm responsibly.)

#26 Brauer

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Posted 04 June 2021 - 08:50 AM

View Postw0qj, on 02 June 2021 - 07:52 PM, said:

5 Assaults vs ZERO (0) Assaults!!

Already sent this email/feedback/complaint to technical@mwomercs.com

Our QP game summary as below URL:
http://www.dropbox.c...12115932130.png

I suspect that MWO QP match-maker prioritized a 4-man Team vs a 3-man Team, and all else did not matter to the match-maker. Which needs to be improved.

To be fair, this is by far the worst match-making game I've seen, ever.
Usually it's 4 Assaults vs 1 Assault for "bad" MWO QP match-making game.

================
Dear MWO Technical Support, technical@mwomercs.com

Re: Bug Report: Match Maker for MechWarrior Online

0. MechWarrior Online Quick Play game date June 2nd 2021, Match ID#270112115932130

1. Please address this very serious flaw in MWO Quick Play matchmaker program decision making, details as below. This game was the most lop-sided EVER!
Please address this.

2. Our game opponent side had FIVE (5) Assaults, and against our side had FIVE (5) Lights!
All else being equal for Heavy/Medium mechs.

Opponent side:
5 Assault**
5 Heavy
2 Medium
0 Light** (ie: NO Light mechs)

Our side:
0 Assault** (ie: NO Assault mechs)
5 Heavy
2 Medium
5 Light**


3. Details of our Opponent's side (please refer to our attached ScreenShot):
Assault: DWF-W, BLR-3M, HGN-733, KGB-000B, DWF-UW
Heavy: SNS-Prime, SNS-C, EBJ-B, MAD-BH2, CPLT-K2
Medium: ACW-1, NVA-S
Light: None/Nil

4. Details of our own side (please refer to our attached ScreenShot):
Assault: None/Nil
Heavy: MDD-Prime, TBR-C, WHM-6D, MDD-RV, WHM-BW
Medium: TBT-7M, HBK-4G
Light: PIR-2, FLE-7, RVN-3L, ACH-E, PIR-A


Conclusion: Please address this very serious flaw in MWO Quick Play matchmaker program decision making; this game was the most lop-sided EVER!
Please address this.

B.rgds / w0qj
2-June-2021
User: w0qj


OP it looks like your team didn't click on mechs often enough or well enough.

Notice the Piranha did decent damage and got a couple of kills despite the tonnage imbalance and despite what I must assume were a number of misplays from players on your team considering some of the low damage totals.

#27 FinnMcKool

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Posted 04 June 2021 - 02:26 PM

my worst was when i was on the other team.

#28 Khobai

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Posted 05 June 2021 - 12:41 AM

View PostMonke-, on 02 June 2021 - 08:17 PM, said:

This isn't the result of the MM doing a poor job of creating teams, this is entirely on the group on your side not making effective use of their tonnage while the enemy group did. Yes there would have still been a tonnage disparity but not to the same level as the screenshot and it would have been within previous possible tonnage disparity.


thats definitely a matchmaker issue.

if a team is low on tonnage the matchmaker should make up for the lack of tonnage by picking solos in heavier mechs.

matchmaker doesnt even attempt to balance tonnage. all it cares about is tier level. thats why it doesnt work most of the time


matchmaker should balance both teams by tonnage. And every mech in the game should have a modified tonnage value with +/- a modifier based on how good or bad it is for its tonnage.

so for example a mech thats 65 tons and good for its tonnage might get a modified tonnage value of 70. while a mech thats 65 tons and bad for its tonnage might get a modified tonnage value of 60.

that would allow PGI to balance the mechs on both teams much better. because not only would it account for tonnage but also the differences between mechs within the same tonnage.


then they just need to get the groups out of solo queue and go back to two separate queues.

Edited by Khobai, 05 June 2021 - 12:57 AM.


#29 Castigatus

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Posted 05 June 2021 - 01:35 AM

You know I'm getting really tired of being told people like me are literally satan ruining the innocent solo players game, I just want to shoot robots with my friends.

And regardless of issues with the matchmaker the simple fact is even now the game does not have the population to support the separation of queues. If I had to queue 25-30 minutes for a pickup game, as was the case with the old group queue, I wouldn't be thinking 'wow, I'm sure glad those solo guys might have a slightly better time of it now',. No, I simply wouldn't be playing the game because the only alternative to that is about as enjoyable as having teeth pulled and the waits there are even longer.

I'm genuinely sick of people trying to drive players who want to do as I do out of the game for the sake of some nebulous and unproven improvement of the 'solo experience'.

#30 MrMadguy

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Posted 05 June 2021 - 03:22 AM

View Postw0qj, on 02 June 2021 - 07:52 PM, said:

5 Assaults vs ZERO (0) Assaults!!

Already sent this email/feedback/complaint to technical@mwomercs.com

Our QP game summary as below URL:
http://www.dropbox.c...12115932130.png

I suspect that MWO QP match-maker prioritized a 4-man Team vs a 3-man Team, and all else did not matter to the match-maker. Which needs to be improved.

To be fair, this is by far the worst match-making game I've seen, ever.
Usually it's 4 Assaults vs 1 Assault for "bad" MWO QP match-making game.

================
Dear MWO Technical Support, technical@mwomercs.com

Re: Bug Report: Match Maker for MechWarrior Online

0. MechWarrior Online Quick Play game date June 2nd 2021, Match ID#270112115932130

1. Please address this very serious flaw in MWO Quick Play matchmaker program decision making, details as below. This game was the most lop-sided EVER!
Please address this.

2. Our game opponent side had FIVE (5) Assaults, and against our side had FIVE (5) Lights!
All else being equal for Heavy/Medium mechs.

Opponent side:
5 Assault**
5 Heavy
2 Medium
0 Light** (ie: NO Light mechs)

Our side:
0 Assault** (ie: NO Assault mechs)
5 Heavy
2 Medium
5 Light**


3. Details of our Opponent's side (please refer to our attached ScreenShot):
Assault: DWF-W, BLR-3M, HGN-733, KGB-000B, DWF-UW
Heavy: SNS-Prime, SNS-C, EBJ-B, MAD-BH2, CPLT-K2
Medium: ACW-1, NVA-S
Light: None/Nil

4. Details of our own side (please refer to our attached ScreenShot):
Assault: None/Nil
Heavy: MDD-Prime, TBR-C, WHM-6D, MDD-RV, WHM-BW
Medium: TBT-7M, HBK-4G
Light: PIR-2, FLE-7, RVN-3L, ACH-E, PIR-A


Conclusion: Please address this very serious flaw in MWO Quick Play matchmaker program decision making; this game was the most lop-sided EVER!
Please address this.

B.rgds / w0qj
2-June-2021
User: w0qj

Tonnage doesn't matter - skill does. For example I do better in Heavies, than in Assaults.

#31 Khobai

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Posted 05 June 2021 - 04:44 AM

View PostMrMadguy, on 05 June 2021 - 03:22 AM, said:

Tonnage doesn't matter - skill does. For example I do better in Heavies, than in Assaults.


tonnage absolutely does matter upto a point

skill being equal, a heavy should always outperform a medium.

most assaults suck though. heavies are the best weight class in the game by a huge margin. they always have been.

the issue with assaults is that fast heavies **** all over them and make them look like a joke in comparison. clan fast heavies run around at 82kph doing 75+ damage alphas and PGI somehow thinks thats okay for the game. CXL is still unbalanced.

matchmaker should not only match tonnage but it should match the quality of mechs too. so even if you have a 100 ton assault, if its a particularly bad assault, matchmaker should take that into account. every mech should have a modified tonnage value based on how good or bad it is for its tonnage. So for example if a 100 ton mech is particular bad it might only count as a 90 ton mech instead for purposes of matchmaking.

Edited by Khobai, 05 June 2021 - 04:58 AM.


#32 PocketYoda

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Posted 05 June 2021 - 05:57 AM

w0qj you are wasting your time sending reports mate, the matchmaker is obsolete and unless PGI ever step up to fix it nothing will change..

The real issue is the lights and mediums are too hard for lower tier players or just garbage for everyone.. So people only play Heavies and Assaults unless they are veterans.. Everyone jumping into Assaults because Assault get the big damage because all this game rewards is damage..

Assault last the longest in poor players hands because they are the most sturdy. Heavies by and large die almost as fast as mediums in lower tier players hands..

Edited by MechaGnome, 05 June 2021 - 06:00 AM.


#33 FinnMcKool

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Posted 05 June 2021 - 10:31 AM

https://vimeo.com/133251938


Edited by FinnMcKool, 05 June 2021 - 10:32 AM.


#34 martian

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Posted 07 June 2021 - 08:40 AM

View PostMechaGnome, on 05 June 2021 - 05:57 AM, said:

Assault last the longest in poor players hands because they are the most sturdy.

This is not so simple. Assault 'Mechs are the sturdiest, but they also attract extraordinary amount of enemy fire.

#35 Zigmund Freud

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Posted 07 June 2021 - 09:29 AM

And yet the match ended with 12:8. If anything, I'd say matchmaker did its job remarkably well. If it had to make two teams with unbalanced tonnage for the sake of somewhat balanced chances of winning and shortish waiting time - I'd say it's ok.

#36 1453 R

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Posted 07 June 2021 - 09:38 AM

View PostCastigatus, on 05 June 2021 - 01:35 AM, said:

You know I'm getting really tired of being told people like me are literally satan ruining the innocent solo players game, I just want to shoot robots with my friends.

And regardless of issues with the matchmaker the simple fact is even now the game does not have the population to support the separation of queues. If I had to queue 25-30 minutes for a pickup game, as was the case with the old group queue, I wouldn't be thinking 'wow, I'm sure glad those solo guys might have a slightly better time of it now',. No, I simply wouldn't be playing the game because the only alternative to that is about as enjoyable as having teeth pulled and the waits there are even longer.

I'm genuinely sick of people trying to drive players who want to do as I do out of the game for the sake of some nebulous and unproven improvement of the 'solo experience'.


Quoting this for emphasis.

i came back specifically because some of my buddies picked up the game again and I started dropping with them. We all just run whatever stupid **** we feel like playing, and since we're already on comms anyways via Discord, we've gotten better about calling information out to the team as a whole, as well. We're certainly not going out of our way to maliciously farm solos, and half the time we get rolled up and put in the garbage disposal right alongside the rest of our incompetent team.

This constant screeching about how all group players are The Very Definition of E.V.I.L. and we should all just quit the game entirely and stop Ruining it Forever(C) for solo players is just...do you really want that ****? My little group in particular has introduced three new cadets to the game in just the last month - would you rather we not get new people playing the game? Would you really, truly rather just lose every player out there who isn't a dedicated solo from the game's population?

And don't give me any of that "just play in your own group-based queue!" ********, either. You KNOW that garbage didn't work for **** even when the game theoretically had the population to support it. Group queue times were awful and the numbers restrictions required to get people to play perfect little Tetyris-piece sized groups meant that most of the time you had to tell multiple friends to go away because you didn't have room. even now, the four-man size limit means our entire team can't play at once, so somebody has to go off and do something else. Hint: the "something else" is very rarely "continue playing MechWarrior Onlione, just solo instead."

I've said it the entire time I've played this game, both before and after the timeskip - your poor match performance has nothing to do with "The Matchmaker" screwing you. it has nothing to do with Evil Cheating Baby-Eating Group-Player Murder Commandos screwing you. It has nothing to do with being out-tonnaged and enemy assault 'Mechs screwing you.

Your poor match performance has to do with you sucking. You, and all the yaybos around you that actively go out of their way to avoid developing the tactical knowledge and skills required for MWO in favor of over-emphasizing sheer reflexive twitch gunnery skills. Virtually everybody in this game sucks - you and me included - and that means wild inconsistencies in match experience based on who manages to suck harder in a given match. There's very little Piranha can do about it, so stop blaming them. There's so many other things one can correctly blame Piranha for, but matchmaking IS. NOT. ONE OF THEM.

#37 Vlad Ward

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Posted 07 June 2021 - 09:43 AM

Complaints about groups are at least 5% legitimate grievances over poor game design choices or unimplemented features (eg what's the point of giving Groups access to the streamlined Select 'Mech interface but not including it in the Pre-Game Lobby?).

Edited by Vlad Ward, 07 June 2021 - 09:44 AM.


#38 Khobai

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Posted 07 June 2021 - 01:08 PM

View PostVlad Ward, on 07 June 2021 - 09:43 AM, said:

Complaints about groups are at least 5% legitimate grievances over poor game design choices or unimplemented features (eg what's the point of giving Groups access to the streamlined Select 'Mech interface but not including it in the Pre-Game Lobby?).


and groups should not be in solo queue as long as those poor design choices subsist and features remain unimplemented.

again dont put the cart before the horse.

you cant have mixed queue without a working matchmaker in place first.

#39 1453 R

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Posted 07 June 2021 - 01:52 PM

Yes, actually. You totally can do that, Khobai. Piranha even went and dun did it. It's called "letting people play your game when they want to play your game."

The portion Vlad edited out of his post was "and the other 95% is 'I lost and I don't like it'. He retracted those words - I'll speak them again myself. All the players kvetching about groups in the solo queue are simply using people dropping with their buddies as an excuse to cover up their own losses. it's 5% actual system woes and 95% sore losers trying to blame everything but their own failures for their own failures.

The matchmaker is not responsible for anybody's sucking. The matchmaker cannot be responsible for anybody's sucking. The best matchmaking algorithm in the world would choke on this game with 833 playable 'characters', each of which can be wildly customized in an endless variety of ways to do entirely different things, none of which the player is guaranteed to be any good with. No possible matchmaker system could do what everybody wants this game's matchmaker to do, especially since what they want the matchmaker to do isn't "give me fair matches!", it's "make sure I never lose!"

People need to stop demanding everyone with friends stop playing MWO. They need to stop demanding Piranha spend every waking hour of their every dev day trying to create the impossible. They need to accept their own suck and the fact that this game is fundamentally one of snowballs and avalanches. You will get rolled, because that's what happens in a game with no respawns where numbers are so critical. Tonnage has very little to do with it. Groups or No Groups has nothing to do with it.

Accept. Your Own. Suck. The game becomes ever so much more fun when you stop treating it like a life-and-death battle for 'Mech Validation and just play it to have some stompy robot fun with your buddies.

#40 Khobai

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Posted 07 June 2021 - 01:54 PM

View Post1453 R, on 07 June 2021 - 01:52 PM, said:

Yes, actually. You totally can do that, Khobai. Piranha even went and dun did it. It's called "letting people play your game when they want to play your game."


yeah and it will fail. just like it failed last time they did it.

they just got lucky with the influx of new players from covid. when that ends players will leave in droves.

View Post1453 R, on 07 June 2021 - 01:52 PM, said:

People need to stop demanding everyone with friends stop playing MWO.


Nobody is demanding that.

All thats being demanded is that people who play with their friends dont play against people who are playing solo.

Thats why we need two separate queues. One for people with friends. And one for solos.

Edited by Khobai, 07 June 2021 - 03:13 PM.






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