619 replies to this topic

[ThreeStooges]

D A T A, on 17 June 2021 - 04:29 AM, said:

You just go in your mechlab, flea max skill tree, and read the armor+structure value.....you don't need 200 IQ to do that...

You don't need a 100 iq to know basic math. 23-50= -27 ct armor. You ARE DEAD FLE.

[Leone]

You also hafta account for structure. I mean, yeah I'd still trash lights with the Dual Heavy guass Fafnir, but lets remember the structure. Sadly I found that Fafnir wanting against every other mech, but I've rebuilt it and've been happily faffing about since.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 17 June 2021 - 01:11 PM.

[Michael Abt]

There is, in my opinion, a misperception in all this armor (skill) discussion. The first big hit never really matters. It is almost always the second shot you have to worry about when piloting a light.That first big PPFLD hit opens your ST/CT, and now any random laser strafe may crit your (IS XL) engine, and no amount of remaining structure will prevent that death.

Besides, good players aim and hit the legs anyway which have less armor, crippling the light.


NASCAR
The simple reason why people are doing it: fun.

But actually it is not *that* simple. Nascar is not the cause, it is the symptom. In reality it is about playstyles. From my perception the majority of players prefer brawling and mid-range engagements over static sniper style. The later favors raw weapon power over speed, while the other two styles have to balance / trade off with speed.

Utilizing speed with a cavalry charge right into the enemy firing lines does not work out, so people try to flank and outmaneuver the enemy. The way most of the maps are designed flanking is funneled and lead into a rotational effect.


If I am correct and the majority prefers mid-range and brawling they will try to find a way to do so. If the hottest meta doesn't support it at all in T1/T2, many players will just find other ways... like a new account, going back to T5/T4.

Anyhow, the weapon changes and high PPFLD made it a lot more difficult for lights. Players gravitate to the best builds / classes, in every online game, and MWO is not any different. Lights are not the most played weight class, so they are probably not OP. If they were, most people would be playing them. Instead, heavies and assaults are being played the most.

And that leads to the perception of lights OP. They are, under the right circumstances, which they are able to create due to their speed and maneuverability, able to beat a heavy or assault. Therefore the conclusion is: "They beat the strongest mechs, so they must be OP."

When a big mech is beaten by a light, that sticks out to the player. Of course he can't and doesn't know how many failed attempts that light piled up in other matches. Maybe think about all the matches you laughed / cursed about that one light who died early in the match, "suicided". Maybe, just maybe he tried to flank, took the wrong turn, and died to a big PPFLD.

Edited by Michael Abt, 17 June 2021 - 02:26 PM.

[LordNothing]

Vlad Ward, on 16 June 2021 - 06:27 AM, said:

ECM and Raderp are fully hard-countered by the Mark I Eyeball.

a ppc also helps, its my favorite way to break stealth.

[ThreeStooges]

If all the light op crowd was forced to play any is xl light for only four matches before being able to play any other weight class, they'd all rage quit the game after the first match.

[JediPanther]

D A T A, on 17 June 2021 - 04:29 AM, said:

You just go in your mechlab, flea max skill tree, and read the armor+structure value.....you don't need 200 IQ to do that...

I could have an iq of 50 and still know that there is no way any stationary fle could survive a full dual heavy guass alpha to the ct unless you are dumb enough to fire them separately which it might,just might survive the first 25 hit to its 24 ct. I'll buy you any mech in the light class if you can prove me wrong with the video evidence to the contrary.

[Gagis]

JediPanther, on 20 June 2021 - 08:04 AM, said:

I could have an iq of 50 and still know that there is no way any stationary fle could survive a full dual heavy guass alpha to the ct unless you are dumb enough to fire them separately which it might,just might survive the first 25 hit to its 24 ct. I'll buy you any mech in the light class if you can prove me wrong with the video evidence to the contrary.

I provided screenshot evidence earlier in the thread. Structure matters, and armour and structure add up to 54 total, a few of which you can even afford to put in the rear.

[JediPanther]

Gagis, on 20 June 2021 - 09:09 AM, said:

I provided screenshot evidence earlier in the thread. Structure matters, and armour and structure add up to 54 total, a few of which you can even afford to put in the rear.

Screen shots of hit being fired on,hit and not destroyed? Photoshop. Show me the video.

Edit; Having re-red a few pages I don't see you posting any screen shot but Gagis #390 did of the mech lab of the fle ct. You have shown nothing for evidence that proves without doubt in the game itself that shows a fle can survive a dual heavy guass to the ct.

Anyone who can post the video of the fle surviving shall get mc gift code from me if the video shows:

1. Build is dual heavy guass.
2. The fle is stationary.
3. The guass must be alpha fired both at the same time.
4. You didn't chain fire or single file the guass.
5. Only get the mc gift code if the fle survives.

Edited by JediPanther, 20 June 2021 - 11:38 AM.

[pattonesque]

I mean you can see by what people have posted that the armor/structure add up to 54. Dual-HG at optimal range is 50

Lots of folks won't be running max survivability. And most dual-HG builds don't just have the gauss for weapons. And oftentimes you'll have taken some CT damage before running into a slow dual-HG mech with a flea. But a fresh Flea with enough points in survivability and just one or two points of back armor can totally survive that.

[MrMadguy]

Michael Abt, on 17 June 2021 - 02:23 PM, said:

Lights are not the most played weight class, so they are probably not OP.

This is the biggest misconception. Problem is - not many players like Light playstyle and visuals. For example I don't play Lights not because they're weak against other 'Mechs, but because their playstyle is way too "trivial" for me. And because I don't like, how they look like. Part of my fun in this game - is engineering my 'Mechs. Bigger 'Mech mean more freedom in customizing my 'Mech and creating interesting builds. And Light is just pew-pew lasers/MG boat. The biggest problem here - is that Lights are made OP exactly to compensate simple fact, that they're unpopular in this game due to many other reasons and PGI want to sell them on a par with other 'Mechs.

[Michael Abt]

MrMadguy, on 20 June 2021 - 11:45 AM, said:

This is the biggest misconception. Problem is - not many players like Light playstyle and visuals. For example I don't play Lights not because they're weak against other 'Mechs, but because their playstyle is way too "trivial" for me. And because I don't like, how they look like. Part of my fun in this game - is engineering my 'Mechs. Bigger 'Mech mean more freedom in customizing my 'Mech and creating interesting builds. And Light is just pew-pew lasers/MG boat. The biggest problem here - is that Lights are made OP exactly to compensate simple fact, that they're unpopular in this game due to many other reasons and PGI want to sell them on a par with other 'Mechs.

And I strongly disagree to that statement. MWO isn't different to any other game. Whatever was FOTM, it was played. Poptarts, laser vomit, LRMgeddon, and so on. Light mechs were never picked as FOTM, except a few specific chasis, due to the simple fact that their best asset is their speed. However, whatever was meta you could do a lot lot better with heavies or assaults.

Lights were and are the least played class for a reason, and it is *not* because people prefer more customizing options. You can't reasonably and consistantly carry games in a light because neither do they have the dps nor the armor for that.

Edited by Michael Abt, 20 June 2021 - 01:27 PM.

[Gagis]

JediPanther, on 20 June 2021 - 11:27 AM, said:

Screen shots of hit being fired on,hit and not destroyed? Photoshop. Show me the video.

Edit; Having re-red a few pages I don't see you posting any screen shot but Gagis #390 did of the mech lab of the fle ct. You have shown nothing for evidence that proves without doubt in the game itself that shows a fle can survive a dual heavy guass to the ct.

Anyone who can post the video of the fle surviving shall get mc gift code from me if the video shows:

1. Build is dual heavy guass.
2. The fle is stationary.
3. The guass must be alpha fired both at the same time.
4. You didn't chain fire or single file the guass.
5. Only get the mc gift code if the fle survives.

Done:
https://youtu.be/_B3f_fKd2VQ

[1453 R]

It's really weird that the video was necessary...like, basic arithmetic shows that if something has more than 50 points of health available in a location, it'll survive a shot from two heavy goose waffles in that location if it's suffered no prior damage. It's not gonna enjoy taking that hit, and indeed that Flea's goose would'a been cooked in a regular match...but surviving that first hit was always kind of a given?

[Vxheous]

1453 R, on 20 June 2021 - 02:50 PM, said:

It's really weird that the video was necessary...like, basic arithmetic shows that if something has more than 50 points of health available in a location, it'll survive a shot from two heavy goose waffles in that location if it's suffered no prior damage. It's not gonna enjoy taking that hit, and indeed that Flea's goose would'a been cooked in a regular match...but surviving that first hit was always kind of a given?

Yes, but this is the MWO forums we're talking about, logic doesn't always prevail here. Now we can all definitively see that YES, a fully skilled flea will survive a Double Heavy Gauss CT hit. We just need confirmation from Gagis now upon receiving this MC code that was promised for providing this evidence.

Edited by Vxheous, 20 June 2021 - 03:08 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Michael Abt, on 20 June 2021 - 01:26 PM, said:

You can't reasonably and consistantly carry games in a light because neither do they have the dps nor the armor for that.

Almost. You can carry in a Light, but there is a higher minimum level of team performance needed for it than there would be if you were trying to carry in something heavier. If your team can draw some aggro and still survive for awhile, you can carry with the Light.

[Xiphias]

Gagis, on 20 June 2021 - 01:46 PM, said:

Done:
https://youtu.be/_B3f_fKd2VQ

That's some easy MC if he actually pays up. The math doesn't lie, but magical thinking abounds on these forums. It's no wonder people don't trust/understand statistics here when they won't believe even the basic arithmetic systems the game is build on.

[MechWarrior414712]

light mechs - yes nerf please... they knocked my wheelchair down and now i cant get up...

[justcallme A S H]

Gagis, on 20 June 2021 - 01:46 PM, said:

Done:
https://youtu.be/_B3f_fKd2VQ

The fact you had to even do this is frankly ridiculous.

All the information is clearly available and still people don't get it?!?!


Enjoy your MC, you definitely earnt it.

[justcallme A S H]

I guess yeah. Although something as simple as 1+1 for armour/structure values... Surely is beyond 'thst isn't enough proof'. I dunno maybe I just look at things and prefer to do my own research before saying 'nah, I still don't believe you'.


That said the past week it's been quite pleasant. Barely an untrue claim made and only a teeny bit of hyperbole.

It's lead to some good discussion for a change too rather than just blatantly misinformation clogging the pipes.

[Capt Deadpool]

The minority here really is to be pitied... The rest of us are going to need to find ways to help them cope with the forthcoming reality that small/fast mechs will, and indeed should, be doing similar damage-per-game as fatter/slower mechs after The Cauldron's armor quirkening and eventual rescale of the light class, which will ostensibly allow the average light pilot to engage more frequently without being deleted.

A rude awakening is in store for those who think lights are already OP... (Though in all honesty I don't think many really believe that nonsense at all, despite what they may be posting... they just don't like being killed by something 'small', and so resort to ego-soothing hyperbole.)