619 replies to this topic

[MechNexus]

To bring this sliiiightly more on topic:

If lights were so OP and ezmode, then they wouldn't consistently be the lowest pop class when I hover over that quickplay button.

[MisterSomaru]

pattonesque, on 04 July 2021 - 02:45 AM, said:

Eider just shoot the light dude. Some lights (very few!) have big, devastating alphas at *very short range* like the Pirahna or Jenner-IIC but they are also incredibly fragile if you just shoot them. I shoot light mechs all the time and aside from the aforementioned Commando there’s really not much going on in terms of lag or hitbox weirdness. I think you’re just missing them or not firing. People get very stressed out over light mechs!

even LBX is good at sending lights to brazil.

[MechNexus]

btw, I still don't think we got an answer for which lights can allegedly carry as much firepower as an assault [redacted]. Anyone gonna back up this claim?

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 05 July 2021 - 05:53 AM.

[Storming Angel]

MechNexus, on 04 July 2021 - 04:38 AM, said:

btw, I still don't think we got an answer for which lights can allegedly carry as much firepower as an assault [redacted]. Anyone gonna back up this claim?

Let me pull up my book of 500 tonne light mechs for a second.

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 05 July 2021 - 05:53 AM.
quote cleanup

[SafeScanner]

congrats we got over 30 pages of this can we go for 60 pages

i am confused how does a 20t mech carry more alpha vomit than a assault that can use AC/10,20

fleas,locusts can carry mediums lasers,pulse ect yes but we have to sacrifice so much for that XL engine, armor hard earned cbills just to squeeeeeeeese that 0.1T off that mech for better weapons

here is an idea for the jumpjet rework for the spider reduce the weight of jumpjets to 0.2/0.3 t giving the spider a little more leg room and other lights that use jumpjets

jarls list
https://leaderboard....h?u=SafeScanner think i am doing good for using 91% light

Edited by SafeScanner, 04 July 2021 - 05:50 AM.

[Khobai]

SafeScanner, on 04 July 2021 - 05:46 AM, said:

congrats we got over 30 pages of this can we go for 60 pages

i am confused how does a 20t mech carry more alpha vomit than a assault that can use AC/10,20

fleas,locusts can carry mediums lasers,pulse ect yes but we have to sacrifice so much for that XL engine, armor hard earned cbills just to squeeeeeeeese that 0.1T off that mech for better weapons

here is an idea for the jumpjet rework for the spider reduce the weight of jumpjets to 0.2/0.3 t giving the spider a little more leg room and other lights that use jumpjets

jarls list
https://leaderboard....h?u=SafeScanner think i am doing good for using 91% light

they mean dps not alpha size

lights like the piranha definitely have similar dps to some assaults but not nearly the same size alphas

[SafeScanner]

Khobai, on 04 July 2021 - 05:55 AM, said:

they mean dps not alpha size

lights like the piranha definitely have similar dps to some assaults but not nearly the same size alphas

then that opens another kettle of fish.
granted the pirana is an outlier its a specilised mech (high damage low survivability) but for others

Mech builds (both sides)
Distance to target (Damage dropoff)
Exposure (How long was it standing still what parts can be seen)
Heat (the heat buildup to maintain said dps)
Reaction time (how long till target notices hey i am being shot)
Skill/Experience (using said mech/overall game time with MWO)

the DPS is subjective if use for example
Locust PB using x4 Small Pulse thats 135M 16 Dmg Per shot (Distance)
Exposure will be entire rear/front depending on engagment
Heat buildup (1.55H) non stealth/ecm 43 shots (633 dmg) shots before shutdown Stealth/ecm 11 shots (167 dmg) before shutdown
(Did this in training room in forest colony map zero weapon, operation skills this does not take into account the cooldown per shot)
Reaction time people are not gonna let you shoot them and will move and flail about spreading out the damage
skill/experience difference with the person panic or will make an angry fist and splat poor locust

Need to work out Dps is the formular 4 / 2.1 =?
if so
43 shots = 301.42
11 shots = 79.52

Edited by SafeScanner, 04 July 2021 - 06:36 AM.

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

Using the Piranhas as something to base how effective lights are as damage dealing mechs is kind of dumb because they represent the ultimate glass cannon. Yes the PIR-1 has a very high DPS because it can boat so many machine guns, however it has no armour and will evaporate as soon as someone starts to shoot it. Yes the PIR-2 can boat enough lasers to get a +50 alpha strike but its heat effeciency is poor and it too has no armour as well as losing a ST basically killing you.

They require skill to leverage their powerful weapon loads because otherwise they will just get deleted, I'm sure we've all seen the overly cocky Piranha pilot who runs straight at you to hug your leg and just gets instagibbed because of it.

[Vladokapuh]

"like piranha" just means piranha.
there is nothing else doing what that specific mech does.

[Captain Caveman DE]

Vladokapuh, on 04 July 2021 - 07:38 AM, said:

"like piranha" just means piranha.
there is nothing else doing what that specific mech does.

yeah, light instill the fear in everybody with a bazillion weapons, then dying to a well placed wet towel slap.
if the PIR is so OP, then why isn't QP full of them, but full of assaults & lurmers?

Edited by Captain Caveman DE, 04 July 2021 - 07:58 AM.

[Vladokapuh]

Captain Caveman DE, on 04 July 2021 - 07:53 AM, said:

yeah, light instill the fear in everybody with a bazillion weapons, then dying to a well placed wet towel.
if the PIR is so OP, then why isn't QP full of them, but full of assaults & lurmers?

Because lights are OP only when other people play them, when they try, the lights suddenly stop being OP.
Peculiar isnt it?

[Captain Caveman DE]

yup. the grass is always greener

[JediPanther]

MechNexus, on 04 July 2021 - 04:38 AM, said:

btw, I still don't think we got an answer for which lights can allegedly carry as much firepower as an assault before Eider devolved into being a transphobe and insulting everyone. Anyone gonna back up this claim?

I already stated the three lights which can do an assult's 40-60 alpha. Two of which were clan,not the pirs btw, and one IS light. you can go through all 126 lights and find out which ones can also hit that alpha range. The vast majority are clan not IS. that is alpha only. Dps is a different thing. There's a lot people here better at math than me who will happily bring out the pages and pages of formulas doing the dps break downs of clan vs IS with and without fire power tree/mech ops tree with max nodes. also don't forget the cool shot variables.

I'm sure some spreadsheet warrior keeps track of it all so if you want the most dps out of any mech they have it all for weapon and skill tree usage.

As for light vs light; as a retired light pilot my experience was also going off these variables of which one is more likely to win:
1. Damage state of both lights at start of engagement.
2. Range of weapons.
3. Dps of weapons.
4. Heat management.
5. Fire support if any from team mates.

Often the one with less damage,better heat management, better dps and fire support will win.

[Catra Lanis]

Monke-, on 04 July 2021 - 12:33 AM, said:

The real strength of lights is their typically higher skill ceiling allowing better players to perform very well in them and clutch matches, while bigger mechs can still clutch simply being able to avoid damage through superior mobility will most of the time be better than migitating damage through twisting and spreading the damage.

So what's the issue? Why is it a problem that lights allow for more skilled play?

I'm not sure that's true. As I wrote I leveled some lights not long ago and in that thread pointed out that I'm not a light specialist but someone pointed out that the stats were decent. If I can deliver those numberes then most people can and then it's the mech. Lights are very forgiving. Sure, now and then you get gaussed but that's no problem. In most matches you can literally let your dog hammer the keyboard and it's a good chance you'll get out alive from a short slashing attack if you're in a PIR or CMD. The latter is tanky as hell but the pathetic firepower makes it tolerable. In an assault or heavy you can't get out of trouble. No, far from all lights but some of them need to be toned down just a bit, they should absolutely get no buffs at least.

Edited by Catra Lanis, 04 July 2021 - 08:06 AM.

[MechNexus]

JediPanther, on 04 July 2021 - 08:01 AM, said:

I already stated the three lights which can do an assult's 40-60 alpha. Two of which were clan,not the pirs btw, and one IS light. you can go through all 126 lights and find out which ones can also hit that alpha range. The vast majority are clan not IS. that is alpha only. Dps is a different thing. There's a lot people here better at math than me who will happily bring out the pages and pages of formulas doing the dps break downs of clan vs IS with and without fire power tree/mech ops tree with max nodes. also don't forget the cool shot variables.

I'm sure some spreadsheet warrior keeps track of it all so if you want the most dps out of any mech they have it all for weapon and skill tree usage.

As for light vs light; as a retired light pilot my experience was also going off these variables of which one is more likely to win:
1. Damage state of both lights at start of engagement.
2. Range of weapons.
3. Dps of weapons.
4. Heat management.
5. Fire support if any from team mates.

Often the one with less damage,better heat management, better dps and fire support will win.

https://mech.nav-alpha.com/

Put the builds together and back up your claim.

[pattonesque]

MechNexus, on 04 July 2021 - 08:07 AM, said:

https://mech.nav-alpha.com/

Put the builds together and back up your claim.

Well, you can do a 40-point alpha in this:

https://mech.nav-alp...#0eb22759_ADR-B

But the disadvantages are extreme: all of those are low mounts, the LBX is on a wide-slung arm that catches everything, the mech is relatively slow and the hitboxes are atrocious

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

Catra Lanis, on 04 July 2021 - 08:03 AM, said:

I'm not sure that's true. As I wrote I leveled some lights not long ago and in that thread pointed out that I'm not a light specialist but someone pointed out that the stats were decent. If I can deliver those numberes then most people can and then it's the mech. Lights are very forgiving. Sure, now and then you get gaussed but that's no problem. In most matches you can literally let your dog hammer the keyboard and it's a good chance you'll get out alive from a short slashing attack if you're in a PIR or CMD. The latter is tanky as hell but the pathetic firepower makes it tolerable. In an assault or heavy you can't get out of trouble. No, far from all lights but some of them need to be toned down just a bit, they should absolutely get no buffs at least.

Not to try and shame you but looking at your stats on Jarls to try gauge what tier you're in and I'd probably guess you were lower tier where even a mediocre light pilot is going to have very good matches, I'm in T1 and if I see a light just run through my team I will see them get punished, they typically don't get away without taking a good bit of damage.

[MyriadDigits]

JediPanther, on 04 July 2021 - 08:01 AM, said:

I already stated the three lights which can do an assult's 40-60 alpha. Two of which were clan,not the pirs btw, and one IS light. you can go through all 126 lights and find out which ones can also hit that alpha range. The vast majority are clan not IS. that is alpha only. Dps is a different thing. There's a lot people here better at math than me who will happily bring out the pages and pages of formulas doing the dps break downs of clan vs IS with and without fire power tree/mech ops tree with max nodes. also don't forget the cool shot variables.

I'm sure some spreadsheet warrior keeps track of it all so if you want the most dps out of any mech they have it all for weapon and skill tree usage.

As for light vs light; as a retired light pilot my experience was also going off these variables of which one is more likely to win:
1. Damage state of both lights at start of engagement.
2. Range of weapons.
3. Dps of weapons.
4. Heat management.
5. Fire support if any from team mates.

Often the one with less damage,better heat management, better dps and fire support will win.

Firepower =/= raw alpha, regardless of what the in-game mechlab says about it. Just because some light mech can get a fatty alpha doesn't mean its got the same fighting power as a mech who's weapon loadout weighs more than literally any light mech, and its disingenuous to act like it is equivalent.

[Khobai]

MyriadDigits, on 04 July 2021 - 08:41 AM, said:

Firepower =/= raw alpha, regardless of what the in-game mechlab says about it. Just because some light mech can get a fatty alpha doesn't mean its got the same fighting power as a mech who's weapon loadout weighs more than literally any light mech, and its disingenuous to act like it is equivalent.

Lights are more likely to be able to shoot mechs in the back though.

You need to factor that in.

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

Khobai, on 04 July 2021 - 09:04 AM, said:

Lights are more likely to be able to shoot mechs in the back though.

You need to factor that in.

And? Yes lights can exploit openings to get backstabs easier but if they get spotted before they can dive then they're far more likely to die without getting to do much damage, there is a trade off for that mobility gives you options.

Edited by Monke-, 04 July 2021 - 09:22 AM.