71 replies to this topic

[Vellron2005]

PGI, please don't simply remove the Old Polar Highlands.. Instead, do what you did for Frozen City and Forest Colony.

Leave it as a "Classic" map.

Polar is the only map in the game that is really great for LRMs. There are plenty of maps that aren't, and where lurmers just know they are not gonna do very well - just like with close-range brawlers, but ONLY on Polar.

Do you think this is fair to lurmers?

Please, let us LRM aficionados have out playground.

I also suggest that instead of remaking good maps, you make NEW maps..

Edited by Vellron2005, 21 June 2021 - 10:27 AM.

[Heavy Money]

I like current Polar Highlands, but I think its better if they remove it, and then address why LRMs aren't more useful on more maps, and have such problems with skill floor and ceiling. As long as Polar is so much better for them, they cannot be rebalanced.

[martian]

My opinion is that PGI should keep both maps in rotation.

Let the players vote what map they would like to play on.

[Heavy Money]

martian, on 21 June 2021 - 10:54 AM, said:

My opinion is that PGI should keep both maps in rotation.

Let the players vote what map they would like to play on.

That'd be fine if whenever a map comes up, then you can choose what version. But its no good right now when only 4 maps come up.

[Vellron2005]

Heavy Money, on 21 June 2021 - 10:52 AM, said:

I like current Polar Highlands, but I think its better if they remove it, and then address why LRMs aren't more useful on more maps, and have such problems with skill floor and ceiling. As long as Polar is so much better for them, they cannot be rebalanced.

LRMs were super useful - but then "buy every mech for $$" SRM brawlers had their say, and suddenly LRMs were reduced to.. well.. what we have now. You used to be able to bend your LRMs around obsticles, lock easily if you didn't stand half the map away from your target, and once you locked, you could do a lot of things and still maintain your lock.. (like the aforementioned LRM bending, which I considered an art form).

If you ask me, the ONLY change for the better ever done to LRMs was the variable arc - which shoots lower (like ATMs) if you have LOS and are under cover..

Heavy Money, on 21 June 2021 - 11:07 AM, said:

That'd be fine if whenever a map comes up, then you can choose what version. But its no good right now when only 4 maps come up.

And how is that any different for a Lurmer than having to pick from 3 "classic" maps and Solaris City when only 4 maps are on offer?

And this kind of choice happens regularly.. 3 maps designed for 4vs4 and a brawl map..

Edited by Vellron2005, 21 June 2021 - 11:10 AM.

[MechNexus]

No. Original polar sucked and was painfully unfun to play on.

[Bud Crue]

I hate Polar. Not because of LRMs, but because it is 2 minutes of walk-warrior on-line from the start, just to get to the typical I-9 battle ground (and another two minutes at the end if you get incursion). Change the drop zones and that can be addressed. Once the fight starts however, I find the map to be one of the best brawling maps in the game. So if the drop zones stay as they are, my vote would be to pull the map. If they would change the drop zones so they are closer together, then I'd vote to leave it in rotation as "a classic".

[Capt Deadpool]

It's my opinion that the new Canyon is and new Polar will be straight-up upgrades to the old maps, insomuch as a greater variety of tactical and stregic options are available, and that keeping the old maps in rotation is redundant.

[FinnMcKool]

I hear you about likening a map,, and they take it away, but for LURMs sake we don't know yet how it turns out.
the LURMs may work just as well or even better, the cover in the map may make it harder, but i think its
only a nod to those who snipe, maybe Brawlers will find it easier to get close, to the other team?
really i think it will be a boon to lights using radar dep, they should be unstoppable on this map

but truth is we dont know yet

but i like the idea of having more, not less maps
but i never liked the voting (for the record)

Edited by FinnMcKool, 21 June 2021 - 11:23 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

No. Kill it with fire

[John Bronco]

Please do NOT keep old polar around.

It's awful. The whole point of fixing these maps is because they are trash and need to go.

[Gagis]

Can you imagine the voting screens? first 4 variants of frozen city and the next match 2 variants of polar vs 2 variants of canyon

No thank you.

[Vellron2005]

Lockheed_, on 21 June 2021 - 11:46 AM, said:

I just wish the OP would not have requested this under the light of wanting a maps for LURMs because that's pretty much the reason the map is hated for. (although I have experienced a huge decline in lurming recently, but this is probably also very much tier and time of day related)

I know the map is hated for being lurm paradise. Solaris, Rubellite and HPG are hated for being SRM paradise. So what? I just want the same treatment for lurmers as brawlers got with all the tiny classic maps..

Brawlers will always hate lurmers and vice versa. Nothing new there. And they will always cry against eachother. Nothing new there.

Edited by Vellron2005, 21 June 2021 - 12:43 PM.

[Vlad Ward]

Capt Deadpool, on 21 June 2021 - 11:21 AM, said:

It's my opinion that the new Canyon is and new Polar will be straight-up upgrades to the old maps, insomuch as a greater variety of tactical and stregic options are available, and that keeping the old maps in rotation is redundant.

^ This.

There is no need to continue support for Internet Explorer 7.

[MechNexus]

Vellron2005, on 21 June 2021 - 12:37 PM, said:

I know the map is hated for being lurm paradise. Solaris, Rubellite and HPG are hated for being SRM paradise. So what? I just want the same treatment for lurmers as brawlers got with all the tiny classic maps..

Brawlers will always hate lurmers and vice versa. Nothing new there. And they will always cry against eachother. Nothing new there.

Given how much PGI catered to LRM players over the past few years (to the game's detriment), I have absoloutely zero sympathy for you now that things are starting to change.

[Bud Crue]

John Bronco, on 21 June 2021 - 11:39 AM, said:

Please do NOT keep old polar around.

It's awful. The whole point of fixing these maps is because they are trash and need to go.

I suspect that there are significant differences of opinion here. I mean Canyon (old Canyon) was pretty much thee map of choice for comp was it not? I have difficulty thinking of a map that popular and that frequently voted for as trash (edt: same goes for HPG. They are planning to change that map next and that is probably the last map I would mess with). I mean, I like the changes, but I also can't deny that as predictable as old Canyon typically played out in QP, it was always very popular (nascar or not) with just about everybody. New Canyon is to my mind not really that different though so I don't see much reason to bring back the old one, but the old one wasn't to my way of thinking "trash".

In regard to Polar, I've never thought of it as trash, just one that gives ranged builds a bit of a benefit more than most maps, and one that takes a lot longer to play out than it should; It's just Alpine without the need to climb a mountain. Not trash, just time consuming. Of the new Polar, from what I have seen so far it gives me a "Frozen City with more stuff inside the giant hole" vibe than more of a "Polar with more cover" vibe, which is what I thought they were going for. This, in turn, makes me think "do we need yet another Frozen City map?" I for one don't know and don't really care, but I do like variety and New Polar looks to play VERY different than old Polar, and so if for no other reason than that potential for variety, I would keep the thing (though I sure wish they changed the spawns if they do).

Edited by Bud Crue, 21 June 2021 - 01:54 PM.

[1453 R]

Just gonna point out that I haven't seen anything in nuPolar that looks like it'd be "bad" for LRMs. Yes, Polar will no longer be the one map where absolutely god-******* awful LRM-80 assault 'Mechs with a top speed of 24kph, over twenty tons of LRM ammunition, and whose sole close-quarters/defensive armament is two small lasers and a button macro'd to spam "NEED ASSISTANCE!!!!" 34 times a second are not necessarily literally the worst 'Mech manufactured since the Daboku, but that feels more like an unwarranted loophole than anything else. Those 'Mechs are bad, their pilots should feel bad, and at no point should that sort of build ever be rewarded.

But from what I've seen of nuPolar? While the map now abounds with cover (thank ******* gods, Old Polar was a nightmare if you couldn't convince your team to stick near its spawn), it all looks mostly like low cover. With a few mountainy exceptions, all the new cover isn't much taller than the 'Mechs that're fighting in it, so cover that works against plunging LRM fire will be fairly scarce. Getting NARC'd on Polar will still likely be a one-shot death sentence unless you're quite lucky in your positioning or your team brought all the AMS in Creation, as cover sufficient to block LRM fire looks to be relatively scarce on the new map. It exists so bad LRM players will complain, but it still looks like a map highly conducive to proper LRM play.

So take the third through ninth LRM launchers off your goddamned Cyclopses, put real assault 'Mech weapons on them (which can certainly include an LRM-20 or maybe even two, but DOES NOT include "nothing but lurm tubes"), and get the engine above the 200 mark. Time to start piloting real BattleMechs again, Actively Cancerous LRM-80 Assault "Pilots". Your one saving-grace map has been taken away and I for one am thrilled to see it go.

[Leone]

Vellron2005, on 21 June 2021 - 12:37 PM, said:

Brawlers will always hate lurmers and vice versa. Nothing new there. And they will always cry against eachother. Nothing new there.

Lies. Lies and Slander! Long Range Missiles mechs make the best brawling buddies.

~Leone

[Stonefalcon]

Vellron2005, on 21 June 2021 - 10:26 AM, said:

PGI, please don't simply remove the Old Polar Highlands.. Instead, do what you did for Frozen City and Forest Colony.

Leave it as a "Classic" map.

Polar is the only map in the game that is really great for LRMs. There are plenty of maps that aren't, and where lurmers just know they are not gonna do very well - just like with close-range brawlers, but ONLY on Polar.

Do you think this is fair to lurmers?

Please, let us LRM aficionados have out playground.

I also suggest that instead of remaking good maps, you make NEW maps..

Polar Highlands was a bloody **** map. Good riddance.

[Leone]

Nonsense. It's a great map.

~Leone.