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Patch Notes - 1.4.242.0 - 22-June-2021


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#201 Rizzi Kell

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Posted 28 June 2021 - 02:26 AM

View PostArkhangel, on 28 June 2021 - 12:22 AM, said:

I do find it funny someone was basing IS Omnis, when in reality most of them are actually pretty solid mechs.

Course, most of those idiots are freaking out about their hardwired XLs, and forget that IS Omnis in general tends to be pretty damn well armored AND mobile, I.E. the Avatar or Sunder.

Not to mention most of them are incredibly well armed for their size too. Mean, hell, look at the aforementioned Raptor. How many 25 tonners do you know that can run over 110kph, carry a pair of large lasers and have no overheating problems due to firing them constantly?

Also, Rizzi?

There's a massive difference between Theoretical DPS on paper, and actually causing damage on the field.

I love IS mechs, but Clans outperform us DPS wise simply for the fact their Damage APPLICATION is better than ours, which is why any halfways competent IS pilot learns to use the Terrain to mitigate their range advantage, so you can force them into your own effective range.

Only a complete moron tries to trade with Clanners at range. Unless they're doing it as a feint to keep their attention while teammates close in on the flanks, or head in low on maps with verticality.

I mean, I'd love to always get River City or Crimson Strait, which heavily favor IS mechs thanks to all the buildings around, but I learned to adapt.

Hi there big thanks for this comment, it is not the theoretical part here, i have seen the theoretical to much in factionplay, and yes i tried the IS side although, i like to see what the other side can bring against me and how it works in practice( yes i´m a bad IS Pilot) that is why i´m telling the actual balancing is not going well, for sure some mechs feel better now, but the difference between Clan and IS side is too big, and getting worser (this is my Opinion, no need to blame my Clanmembers). For sure i´m a Clanfanboy(from Tabletop, TCG and every Mechwarriorgame including Mechcomander and the Books for sure). Yes you found me mostly in CW, but i try out new builds in QP too, some of the theoreticle builds won´t get out of Testinggrounds because not my playstyle. I have seen and played theese builds, and i can prof that i do alot more dmg in IS mechs as in Clanmechs (eaven that i´m a bad IS pilot)

#202 Detoxication

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Posted 28 June 2021 - 04:36 AM

hello.

i wonder when the server pick button will work properly.

#203 C337Skymaster

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Posted 01 July 2021 - 03:24 AM

View PostNavid A1, on 22 June 2021 - 01:04 AM, said:


It helps it by giving some of its lost punch back... your calculation falls apart the moment you lift your finger off the trigger. In a realistic case, you are not holding down trigger, for 40 seconds with no delay, loss of lock and/or any other interruptions. Due to that any dps-based advantage just goes away as simple as that.


Exactly what streak-users tried to warn when the original nerf was first proposed. They're not capable of being DPS weapons for all the reasons you just described (unless you get a 1000% missile cooldown, as in theb33f's PTS video from a few years ago).

#204 C337Skymaster

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Posted 01 July 2021 - 03:30 AM

View PostGrus, on 22 June 2021 - 06:07 AM, said:

I'm more excited about the yaw angles.. my Dire can look left and right now? And can use corners even better?

YES!


Yeah, that's my favorite part of the patch, too. For Dires, and for my Kodiaks, last patch. 60 degrees just completely obliterates any ability to duel, and forces the 'mech into a range-trader.

#205 C337Skymaster

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Posted 01 July 2021 - 03:50 AM

View PostY E O N N E, on 23 June 2021 - 04:47 PM, said:


we're going to try giving PPCs an additional boon to offset the extra ton and hardpoint they consume over HPPCs and see if this makes them palatable.



So traditional PPCs already have a boon to offset the extra ton and hardpoint: their cooldown aligns with the audio cue. I can't get the hang of Heavy PPCs because when the audio cue finishes and I pop out to shoot again, they're still on cooldown for another second or so, and nothing happens. Meanwhile I'm exposed to return fire for no reason, and my target has realized they're a target and moved out of the way.

#206 C337Skymaster

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Posted 01 July 2021 - 03:55 AM

View PostQuandoo, on 23 June 2021 - 09:43 AM, said:

All vs all mode Posted Image


So that's what the community generally thought Solaris mode was going to be, when we asked for it repeatedly for years on end. That's why Solaris is completely dead, as-implemented. Turns out what PGI gave us is a lot closer to the lore, but the folks asking for it were asking for the MW4 Solaris, not the lore-book Solaris. Supposedly there's some limitation within Cryengine that it can't allow more than two teams (theoretically a 24 'mech free-for-all would be 24 teams), so they can't (or won't) give us the Solaris we wanted. :(

#207 C337Skymaster

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Posted 01 July 2021 - 04:24 AM

View PostY E O N N E, on 23 June 2021 - 10:48 PM, said:

I don't think that's a useful way of looking at things unless the two weapons are extremely similar. For example, 8 tons of Medium Pulse Lasers dunk on a single 14-ton AC/20 and 6 tons of ER Medium Lasers generally dunk on 15 tons of Large Lasers.


So the main issue here is pinpoint. No, 8 tons of MPLs are NOT supposed to dunk on an AC/20, but the balance is supposed to be that the 4 MPL's hit four different components, while the AC/20 punches through a single spot, not that the AC/20 does oodles and oodles of damage at gatling gun speeds. Same thing with the mediums and larges: there are 6 weapons vs 3, so the damage is spread out more, even with the possibility of one of the meds missing while the other five hit, etc.

Pinpoint is one of the biggest problems we have in any PvP shooter. If we can get rid of it, we can go a long way towards improving game balance and enjoyment.

#208 C337Skymaster

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Posted 01 July 2021 - 04:41 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 24 June 2021 - 02:28 PM, said:


MWO isn't a simulator.



And that's exactly what's wrong with MWO. That fact needs to change. Believe me: it'll vastly improve the game if it does.

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 24 June 2021 - 02:28 PM, said:

As for trends - lets remember the mechs twisted the same speed as current from Birth until Mid-2017. They became dumptrucks for the following 3 years.

Back in 2017 the population was much higher.


That wouldn't be about the time Engine Desync was implemented, would it? Let's stop and think about that for a minute. Hmm....

#209 C337Skymaster

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Posted 01 July 2021 - 04:49 AM

View PostY E O N N E, on 24 June 2021 - 08:31 PM, said:


I will confess that I don't really know what it is you are seeking, since torso-twisting is and has always been a key part of MechWarrior PvP gameplay.

If we slow the 'Mech agility down, then the ratio between health and damage has to change to skew more to health, with the net result being that everything is just a passive damage sponge. Damage sponges have their place, but they aren't particularly engaging to play since that approach doesn't require any pilot input to take advantage of weaker damage vs. armor. Every engagement will also have a dramatically increased proclivity for turning into a brawl because 'Mechs are still going to run at the same speeds they always have (or faster) but, because we've nerfed damage relative to health, nothing will be able to put down a target before it can close. And once you are actually in brawl range, the brawl range weapons always win over the longer-range weapons. It would require some pretty extreme nerfs to staple brawl-range equipment like SRMs and SPLs to give the trade-range lasers a fighting chance, but they'd still always be fighting at brawl range.


I mean... already happens? Sure, long range weapons have the range to put down a target before it gets within brawl range, but apart from Boreal Vault, and maybe Alpine Peaks, maps don't have the line of sight to take advantage of that. Polar used to, until a week ago, but those maps are never popular. There's enough cover that a good pilot can stay completely out of sight until they're within 400 meters, at which point most brawl weapons can start doing fairly significant damage, or can close the rest of the distance without taking more than a single shot from the long range weapons. Literally the only time that works out for the sniper is when there's three or four snipers and a single brawler turns the corner. If there are two or three more brawlers right behind the first that can take advantage of the sniper cooldown, the snipers are done.

#210 C337Skymaster

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Posted 01 July 2021 - 05:13 AM

View PostRizzi Kell, on 25 June 2021 - 09:07 AM, said:

where is the counterability against Stealth on clanside?


View PostdenAirwalkerrr, on 25 June 2021 - 01:50 PM, said:

PSA: you counter stealth armor by using eyes, from what I know both sides have access to them


So the Mk 1 eyeball is Mk 1 for a reason. Depending on the lighting conditions of the map, stealth-armored 'mechs can be damn-near impossible to see, even using alternate vision modes.

HOWEVER, the Clan counter to stealth armor is the ERPPC. Honestly, the IS counter to Stealth armor is also any form of PPC that can hit at whatever range is needed. You hit stealth armor with a PPC, you short out the ECM that it's relying on for 5 seconds, and the 'mech is visible for all to see until their stealth armor cools down.

#211 Kuaron

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Posted 01 July 2021 - 05:59 AM

View PostY E O N N E, on 24 June 2021 - 08:31 PM, said:


I will confess that I don't really know what it is you are seeking, since torso-twisting is and has always been a key part of MechWarrior PvP gameplay.

If we slow the 'Mech agility down, then the ratio between health and damage has to change to skew more to health, with the net result being that everything is just a passive damage sponge. Damage sponges have their place, but they aren't particularly engaging to play since that approach doesn't require any pilot input to take advantage of weaker damage vs. armor. Every engagement will also have a dramatically increased proclivity for turning into a brawl because 'Mechs are still going to run at the same speeds they always have (or faster) but, because we've nerfed damage relative to health, nothing will be able to put down a target before it can close. And once you are actually in brawl range, the brawl range weapons always win over the longer-range weapons. It would require some pretty extreme nerfs to staple brawl-range equipment like SRMs and SPLs to give the trade-range lasers a fighting chance, but they'd still always be fighting at brawl range.


Thx for the explanation.
But do I see it right, that you first painted long range as the threat scenario for why heavier feeling mechs supposedly couldn’t work, and now short range for about the same argument?

#212 DAEDALOS513

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Posted 01 July 2021 - 09:59 AM

View PostC337Skymaster, on 01 July 2021 - 04:49 AM, said:

I mean... already happens? Sure, long range weapons have the range to put down a target before it gets within brawl range, but apart from Boreal Vault, and maybe Alpine Peaks, maps don't have the line of sight to take advantage of that. Polar used to, until a week ago, but those maps are never popular. There's enough cover that a good pilot can stay completely out of sight until they're within 400 meters, at which point most brawl weapons can start doing fairly significant damage, or can close the rest of the distance without taking more than a single shot from the long range weapons. Literally the only time that works out for the sniper is when there's three or four snipers and a single brawler turns the corner. If there are two or three more brawlers right behind the first that can take advantage of the sniper cooldown, the snipers are done.

Agreed.. snipe is feast or famine.. not a real threat.. the real threat now is the insanely high pinpoint alpha's this game is plagued with.. it's truly disgusting.

#213 C337Skymaster

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Posted 01 July 2021 - 10:33 AM

View PostDAEDALOS513, on 01 July 2021 - 09:59 AM, said:

Agreed.. snipe is feast or famine.. not a real threat.. the real threat now is the insanely high pinpoint alpha's this game is plagued with.. it's truly disgusting.


That's been the threat since day 1, or at least since PGI made pinpoint instantaneous. Hit location is technically supposed to be RNG, but I'm okay with bypassing RNG and just making everything shoot straight. Wide 'mechs will have to shoot left/right and adjust their aim as they go. Narrow 'mechs still won't be narrow enough to dunk everything on a single component. And from there, we can get rid of ghost heat, entirely, and maybe reset all the weapon values to TT just to baseline them for balancing against the new no-convergence mechanic.

I wouldn't mind, too, setting DPS to match TT, and adjusting damage/cooldown to have faster firing weapons that do less damage that match up with the overall DPS of their TT counterparts (kinda like how MG's operate). So an AC/20 might do 10 damage every 5 seconds, instead of 20 with a 10s cooldown, etc. Same thing with PPCs, lasers, missiles, what have you. As long as it's all consistent and logical.

#214 C337Skymaster

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Posted 05 July 2021 - 03:50 PM

View PostKuaron, on 24 June 2021 - 05:14 AM, said:

Has lower agility/handling but higher maximal speed been considered? This should at least help against the long range dominance. Time to kill and FLPPD dominance might be not the best arguments considering damage overall has been buffed in May (not so much FLPPD, admittedly, but still). I’d had wished to see attempts to optimize the gameplay towards something more, let’s say, simulationistic and less torso-twisting, which sadly already seems to be the main skill attribute of this game.


So technically, we already have higher maximum speed. When's the last time you ran a Panther, Blackjack, Centurion, Hunchback, Thunderbolt, Rifleman, Archer, Grasshopper, Warhammer, Marauder, or Orion at 64.8 kph? Or any of the other 'mechs that all are supposed to move that speed per their TT "stock" config? With speed tweak, even Clan Omnimechs with fixed engines move faster than they're "supposed" to. Faster forward speed with lower maneuverability is exactly what we've had since Engine Desync, when PGI pegged maneuverability stats to the worst possible option for a given tonnage, and let only the straight-ahead speed vary with engine size.

#215 YoBrainOnSlugz

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Posted 07 July 2021 - 11:49 PM

Hey what happened to the super low res textures and/or object detail? I just jumped back into MWO, and one of the last two updates really compromised my performance in 4K. Seems some of the lowest graphics settings have been enhanced or chopped out completely to accommodate the new maps, idk, but I can hardly stand it. It just can't keep up with the 60hz anymore at 4k, too much tearing. Posted Image

#216 martian

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Posted 08 July 2021 - 12:46 AM

View PostYoBrainOnSlugz, on 07 July 2021 - 11:49 PM, said:

Hey what happened to the super low res textures and/or object detail? I just jumped back into MWO, and one of the last two updates really compromised my performance in 4K. Seems some of the lowest graphics settings have been enhanced or chopped out completely to accommodate the new maps, idk, but I can hardly stand it. It just can't keep up with the 60hz anymore at 4k, too much tearing. Posted Image

Use this e-mail to ask the MWO Tech Support service for help:
technical@mwomercs.com


#217 YoBrainOnSlugs

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Posted 08 July 2021 - 07:05 AM

View Postmartian, on 08 July 2021 - 12:46 AM, said:

Use this e-mail to ask the MWO Tech Support service for help:
technical@mwomercs.com



WTF. I could not even post a follow up reply from that account to you. Ugh. Well, I've already gone through and tried a number of things with no luck. From verifying game files to removing the "save games" folder and starting fresh. Still unable to achieve the max performance with all settings low as before, and it's obvious the game is running with higher res textures and object detail now. I already gave up lol. Bye MWO.

#218 martian

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Posted 08 July 2021 - 08:01 AM

View PostYoBrainOnSlugs, on 08 July 2021 - 07:05 AM, said:

WTF. I could not even post a follow up reply from that account to you. Ugh. Well, I've already gone through and tried a number of things with no luck. From verifying game files to removing the "save games" folder and starting fresh. Still unable to achieve the max performance with all settings low as before, and it's obvious the game is running with higher res textures and object detail now. I already gave up lol. Bye MWO.

That's sad.

Can I have your stuff?

#219 YoBrainOnSlugs

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Posted 08 July 2021 - 08:19 AM

View Postmartian, on 08 July 2021 - 08:01 AM, said:

That's sad.

Can I have your stuff?


I might be back if they get their **** together. It won't be the first time I took a break (for years even) to avoid the cancer of updates to this game lol

#220 martian

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Posted 08 July 2021 - 08:44 AM

View PostYoBrainOnSlugs, on 08 July 2021 - 08:19 AM, said:

I might be back if they get their **** together. It won't be the first time I took a break (for years even) to avoid the cancer of updates to this game lol

PGI does not plan to change textures for the rest of the year.





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