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Patch Notes - 1.4.242.0 - 22-June-2021


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#161 Daidachi

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Posted 24 June 2021 - 11:10 AM

View PostDaneel Hazen, on 24 June 2021 - 08:07 AM, said:


It's the speed. It's worth mentioning that even before this patch this game had a fast torso twist relative to MW5 that is out right now and other games in the past. I see on streams that a lot of upper tier players jerk to the site immediately after firing so I understand why they would want that to be maxed out.. any pilot would. It just needs to be balanced and somewhat realistic to feeling you are in a giant machine's cockpit rather than simply wearing a suit of armor. So the answer as to why would be to make it more authentic. Certainly any test pilot warrior would demand from engineering as agile of a mech as possible, but generally speaking MWO was already very fast. This is not to say it isn't fun by any means, because it is. It's just I'm not sure I want to press on with this trend. If anything I would walk it back to something like MW5. Or maybe in the future we could even have sim mode and arcade mode. You know, when we grow the player base by 100k, right?

Edit: or rather classic and alpha strike mode ha


One thing to bear in mind is that whilst we all want something that conveys big stompy robots, we also want to reward players who don't stare, and actively work to try and survive for as long as possible by making the most of the damage transfer mechanics. It's a key factor in making deadside builds useful, as well as allowing players to survive as long as possible during a match.

In short it increases TTK by rewarding smart play, without penalizing weapon systems to the point where you feel like your only hope to kill an opponent is by giving the player an epileptic seizure via tag lasers on chainfire. Mistakes should be painful but not immediately fatal, and this is a good means to achieve that.

#162 Poseidolon

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Posted 24 June 2021 - 11:54 AM

View PostLeone, on 24 June 2021 - 10:48 AM, said:


You do know that the people suggesting mobility changes, and the person rebuilding maps are different, right?

~Leone.


But Francois is basing much of his changes on what those people are saying, is he not? I believe he mentioned that in a video.

#163 Daneel Hazen

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Posted 24 June 2021 - 01:53 PM

View PostDaidachi, on 24 June 2021 - 11:10 AM, said:

In short it increases TTK by rewarding smart play, without penalizing weapon systems to the point where you feel like your only hope to kill an opponent is by giving the player an epileptic seizure via tag lasers on chainfire. Mistakes should be painful but not immediately fatal, and this is a good means to achieve that.


I can appreciate that, and I could be mistaken but I believe the prevailing wisdom of the time from the original slow down tweaks years ago was to increase time to kill.I hope you're right though!

#164 Kuaron

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Posted 24 June 2021 - 01:55 PM

View PostDaidachi, on 24 June 2021 - 11:10 AM, said:

In short it increases TTK by rewarding smart play, without penalizing weapon systems


I’d rather penalize weapon systems if needed. At least I’d not be buffing them. To create some, so to call, skill sink for more depth in using your giant multi-ton war machine, allow something like fixing the torso location and move the arms separately (solving the problem of unpopular arm mounts compared to torso mounts at the same time) instead encouraging the pre-buff already borderline silly torso twisting even more.

#165 DAEDALOS513

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Posted 24 June 2021 - 02:15 PM

View PostDaneel Hazen, on 24 June 2021 - 01:53 PM, said:

I can appreciate that, and I could be mistaken but I believe the prevailing wisdom of the time from the original slow down tweaks years ago was to increase time to kill.I hope you're right though!

View PostKuaron, on 24 June 2021 - 01:55 PM, said:


I’d rather penalize weapon systems if needed. At least I’d not be buffing them. To create some, so to call, skill sink for more depth in using your giant multi-ton war machine, allow something like fixing the torso location and move the arms separately (solving the problem of unpopular arm mounts compared to torso mounts at the same time) instead encouraging the pre-buff already borderline silly torso twisting even more.

I understand your worry guys. I also would rather penalize a few weapons than buff most of them. All these mass buffs upon buffs on weapons run counter to decreasing TTK. Those on high have a strange and deep-rooted prejudice against nerfing the few outlier weapons that are too strong and so are instead buffing all the rest to bring them up to par with those outliers.

Who ever said ERL's needed more range? Heavy lasers are hot? They're SUPPOSED to be, that's the trade off for high damage and light weight..

It's a 'stronger is better' mentality.. when in reality it's all relative. If you go the nerf route by lowering damage and giving weapons more splash damage instead of pinpoint (for example), then yes you have 'supposed weak' weapons, but guess what, so will your opponent.. only diff is, TTK will go up, more players will feel they are contributing to a match because half the team won't be dead 3 minutes into a match; battles will feel like actual battles and match times will start to last more than 5 minutes.

They say agility will help with survivability but in reality all these agility buffs are being countered by the weapon buffs. We are seeing higher and higher pinpoint damage alphas coupled with more and more duration buffs. Assaults got mobility? Great.. but so did all the lights and mediums that swarm them and they'll be able to grossly out maneuver that assault just as before if not more. Also, an assaults team will run away from that assault just as quick as before because everyone got agility buffs. You give a mech agility (turn rate, accel, etc) and they are more likely to zip away). We're chasing our tail here.. when will this silly cycle end? (nascar comes to mind with all these buffs and counter buffs).

They say mech resize will also help increase TTK but as we learned from the previous resize, it took something like a year to implement, and now with many more mechs and bolt-ons to deal with, not to mention a skeleton crew running the show.. I find it highly unlikely we'll ever see a resize. If anything it will be doled a hand-full of mechs at a time over years.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 24 June 2021 - 03:26 PM.


#166 justcallme A S H

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Posted 24 June 2021 - 02:28 PM

View PostDaneel Hazen, on 24 June 2021 - 08:07 AM, said:

somewhat realistic to feeling you are in a giant machine's cockpit rather than simply wearing a suit of armor.

So the answer as to why would be to make it more authentic. Certainly any test pilot warrior would demand from engineering as agile of a mech as possible,

It's just I'm not sure I want to press on with this trend.


Just some things to consider Posted Image

MWO isn't a simulator. It is a online PvP FPS.
MW5 is the PvE more 'stompy'.

MW3 for example while stompy was quite fast like MWO.

As for trends - lets remember the mechs twisted the same speed as current from Birth until Mid-2017. They became dumptrucks for the following 3 years.

Back in 2017 the population was much higher. The balance passes that are taking place lately are taking the game back to those times. As can be seen population is rising for 10 months straight with almost 180% increase.

It would seem that having the game play closer to how it did a few years ago is bringing more and more people back to the game which is a trend that anyone would sit back and say needs to continue.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 24 June 2021 - 02:35 PM.


#167 Daneel Hazen

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Posted 24 June 2021 - 03:01 PM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 24 June 2021 - 02:28 PM, said:


It would seem that having the game play closer to how it did a few years ago is bringing more and more people back to the game which is a trend that anyone would sit back and say needs to continue.


I would think that MW5, new owners and media would have a lot more to do with that... but who knows. We'll see what happens I guess

#168 justcallme A S H

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Posted 24 June 2021 - 03:21 PM

MW5 has been out for a year. It is just DLC and Steam Launch that came in May.

I don't think the prior 10 months can be attibuted to something that happened last month.

#169 drachnien

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Posted 24 June 2021 - 05:25 PM

booted up MWO for the first time in a year and noticed some of the mechs really feeling different so came here. I dont know enough to offer any constructive feedback but I just wanted to say I LOVE to see the passion and dedication being put in by this Cauldron team your work is definitly appreciated by this filthy casual.

#170 Y E O N N E

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Posted 24 June 2021 - 08:31 PM

View PostKuaron, on 24 June 2021 - 05:14 AM, said:


What @GaelicWolf was saying fits my first thoughts on the changes, too.

Has lower agility/handling but higher maximal speed been considered? This should at least help against the long range dominance. Time to kill and FLPPD dominance might be not the best arguments considering damage overall has been buffed in May (not so much FLPPD, admittedly, but still). I’d had wished to see attempts to optimize the gameplay towards something more, let’s say, simulationistic and less torso-twisting, which sadly already seems to be the main skill attribute of this game.


I will confess that I don't really know what it is you are seeking, since torso-twisting is and has always been a key part of MechWarrior PvP gameplay.

If we slow the 'Mech agility down, then the ratio between health and damage has to change to skew more to health, with the net result being that everything is just a passive damage sponge. Damage sponges have their place, but they aren't particularly engaging to play since that approach doesn't require any pilot input to take advantage of weaker damage vs. armor. Every engagement will also have a dramatically increased proclivity for turning into a brawl because 'Mechs are still going to run at the same speeds they always have (or faster) but, because we've nerfed damage relative to health, nothing will be able to put down a target before it can close. And once you are actually in brawl range, the brawl range weapons always win over the longer-range weapons. It would require some pretty extreme nerfs to staple brawl-range equipment like SRMs and SPLs to give the trade-range lasers a fighting chance, but they'd still always be fighting at brawl range.

#171 Rizzi Kell

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Posted 25 June 2021 - 02:19 AM

View PostY E O N N E, on 21 June 2021 - 05:46 PM, said:


These values are not finalized, Cauldron is meeting later today on Wednesday to have one last debate and reach consensus about them.

IS Changes:
  • ER Small Laser: Heat reduced to 1.9 (from 2.2)
  • Large Laser: Range increased to 480 m (from 450), Heat reduced to 6.4 (from 6.7)
  • ER Large Laser: Range increased to 740 m (from 700)
  • Light PPC: Damage increased to 5.5 (from 5)
  • PPC: some TBD form of damage fall-off between 0 and 90 meters
  • Snub-nose PPC: Damage increased to 1.5+8.5+1.5 (from 1.5+8+1.5)
  • LB-5X: Slot requirement reduced to 4 (from 5)
  • Streak SRM4: Cooldown reduced to 3.25 s (from 3.5 s)
  • Streak SRM6: Cooldown reduced to 4 s (from 4.25)
  • LRM (all): Impulse reduced to 0.15 per missile (from 0.3)...massively reduced screen shake
Clan Changes:
  • Heavy Small Laser: Cooldown reduced to 3.75 s (from 4)
  • Heavy Medium Laser: Cooldown reduced to 4.5 s (from 5), Heat reduced to 7.5 (from 8)
  • Heavy Large Laser: Heat reduced to 14.5 (from 16)
  • Clan ER Large Laser: Range increased to 810 m (from 770)
  • Clan Streak SRM2: Damage increased to 1.75 per missile (from 1.5), Cooldown increased to 2.5 s (from 2), Heat increased to 1.45 (from 1.3)
  • Clan Streak SRM4: Damage increased to 1.75 per missile (from 1.5), Cooldown increased to 3.75 s (from 3), Heat increased to 2.7 (from 2.4)
  • Clan Streak SRM6: Damage increased to 1.75 per missile (from 1.5), Cooldown increased to 5 s (from 4), Heat increased to 3.5 (from 3.1)
  • Clan LRM5: Missile Health increased to 1.5 per missile (from 1.2), Impulse reduced to 0.07 per missile (from 0.15)
  • Clan LRM10: Missile Health increased to 1.25 per missile (from 1.1), Impulse reduced to 0.07 per missile (from 0.15)
  • Clan LRM15: Missile Health increased to 1.05 per missile (from 0.9), Impulse reduced to 0.07 per missile (from 0.15)
  • Clan LRM20: Missile Health increased to 0.95 per missile (from 0.8), Impulse reduced to 0.07 per missile (from 0.15)




- only make sense when all weaponquirks have been removed. (Best remove ALL quirks, then see wich mech is realy unperforming)
- take back the non ghostheat for 4 large lasers
- IF PPC get lost there min range do same to ATM´s they must not do full dmg at this point.
- Remove targetingcomputer 8 out of IS side or give it to Clan too
- ghostheat on snub-PPC back to more then two no need to buff the dmg, they perform well
- remove splashdmg on Clan-ERPPC and buff DMG to 15
- remove Lightgauss +ER-PPC capability without Ghostheat or give Clan Gauss+ERPPC without ghostheat too
- Reduce Burntime on Clanheavylasers
- Add more Burntime on IS Pulslasers (yes all)
- forgot about this, lower health of heavygauss, it is a compackt weapon, so a little critical hit somewhere should disable it.

Edited by Rizzi Kell, 25 June 2021 - 02:25 AM.


#172 Wid1046

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Posted 25 June 2021 - 03:54 AM

View PostRizzi Kell, on 25 June 2021 - 02:19 AM, said:

- only make sense when all weaponquirks have been removed. (Best remove ALL quirks, then see wich mech is realy unperforming)
- take back the non ghostheat for 4 large lasers
- IF PPC get lost there min range do same to ATM´s they must not do full dmg at this point.
- Remove targetingcomputer 8 out of IS side or give it to Clan too
- ghostheat on snub-PPC back to more then two no need to buff the dmg, they perform well
- remove splashdmg on Clan-ERPPC and buff DMG to 15
- remove Lightgauss +ER-PPC capability without Ghostheat or give Clan Gauss+ERPPC without ghostheat too
- Reduce Burntime on Clanheavylasers
- Add more Burntime on IS Pulslasers (yes all)
- forgot about this, lower health of heavygauss, it is a compackt weapon, so a little critical hit somewhere should disable it.

While I didn't agree with your first few points, they were at least reasonable until I got to your point where you want Clan ERPPCs to do all their damage as pinpoint. Even if you only play Clan that would be an awful idea since it would make CERPPCs too powerful and no other weapon system (IS or Clan) would really be able to compete. The game would be reduced to just VEagles with ERPPCs.

I really don't get why so many people play only IS or Clan. You're missing out on half of the good/fun mechs.

#173 Z Paradox

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Posted 25 June 2021 - 04:18 AM

View PostWid1046, on 25 June 2021 - 03:54 AM, said:


I really don't get why so many people play only IS or Clan. You're missing out on half of the good/fun mechs.


Clan mechs and weapons are OP, and not so fun for me... IS is more challenging to play with = more fun for me

#174 Rizzi Kell

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Posted 25 June 2021 - 09:07 AM

View PostWid1046, on 25 June 2021 - 03:54 AM, said:

While I didn't agree with your first few points, they were at least reasonable until I got to your point where you want Clan ERPPCs to do all their damage as pinpoint. Even if you only play Clan that would be an awful idea since it would make CERPPCs too powerful and no other weapon system (IS or Clan) would really be able to compete. The game would be reduced to just VEagles with ERPPCs.

I really don't get why so many people play only IS or Clan. You're missing out on half of the good/fun mechs.

So again, take a Warhammer with two ER-PPC and two lightgauss, just do 40 pinpointdmg on 1000m at 30%of heat, two C-ERppc do what? 25dmg on 100m at 50% of heat.... if you shoot all 3 PPC you are at 90% for 37.5 dmg....
so why not do 45 pinpointdmg? i miss your argument. you always forget about heat. you can´t combine it with other weapos to good to get a higher output, you just will be outperform by is tech. i do play is mechs, but i do not like the OP side, and yes it is.
So if you do like the IS side so much just play MW5 there is no Clan... so what is the reason why Clan have to underperform more after every patch? You take the only good performing mech, the Vapor Eagle as example what about the IS mechs Vulcan, Quickdraw, Cyclops, Jagermech? nobody give an answer on my questions, why is an Jagermech with 5 AC2 outperform an Rifleman IIC with 6 AC2? Does that make any sense? why has IS so many weapons more that do single 15 dmg and above? where is the counterpart for Heavygauss, Heavyppc,lightppc, snubnoseppc, Lightgauss, MRM 40/30? oh no answer? where is the counterability against Stealth on clanside? Why should 4 largelasers be an option, and why do it need buffs in range and in Heat? where is the 40 Pinpoint dmg on 1000m on Clanside?Why do a mech with high weaponmounts like the Battlemaster need quirks? Why is it possible to alpha a 6 ER Largelaser-Boat? I give you the answer, because the IS Fanboys whant it.
Did i ask for a totaly buff of Clans? No i did not i ask for a balance of the downpatched side

#175 Wid1046

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Posted 25 June 2021 - 11:17 AM

View PostZ Paradox, on 25 June 2021 - 04:18 AM, said:

Clan mechs and weapons are OP, and not so fun for me...
[redacted]

View PostRizzi Kell, on 25 June 2021 - 09:07 AM, said:

[redacted]
i do play is mechs, but i do not like the OP side, and yes it is.
[redacted]

I should have predicted that this would be the gist of the next two posts after mine lol.

#176 denAirwalkerrr

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Posted 25 June 2021 - 01:50 PM

Ah yes the classical “I don’t play clan/IS because they are op” card totally not because I am almost religiously playing only other side for some reason so it is my holy duty to post as much as possible to get my side buffed/other side nerfed haha ye other side op so I don play it guys for real because of that I swear xd

>measuring by IS can deal X pinpoint at Y range while clan can do only Z
Ye meanwhile clans have funny mech called Deathstrike that runs 82 pinpoint alpha at almost 500m that can kill amything short of assaults to CT in two alphas. Or Micropulse/SPL boats with ridiculous DPS who can also backstab most of mechs in said 2 alphas.

Jagermech and Rifleman IIC almost identical, JM has maybe a bit better damage due to quirks but it has worse hitboxes, runs IS XL so it’s pretty easy to kill and doesn’t have jumpjet, both mechs are same 65t so this is extremely bad example to complain about. Especially as you word it “RFL-IIC has 6xAC2 over 5 on JM so it should be better”.

PSA: you counter stealth armor by using eyes, from what I know both sides have access to them

IS Large Lasers are still dogshit

Did you know that RFL-IIC can alpha 5xLPL very easily that is even more damage then 6xERLL BLR that you have a problem with?

Be sure to provide more IS better then clans factually wrong opinions I might have time to debunk some more.

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 25 June 2021 - 03:32 PM.


#177 Scout Derek

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Posted 25 June 2021 - 02:26 PM

View PostdenAirwalkerrr, on 25 June 2021 - 01:50 PM, said:

Did you know that RFL-IIC can alpha 5xLPL very easily that is even more damage then 6xERLL BLR that you have a problem with?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! YOU CANT JUST HAVE A 1 SECOND 65 DAMAGE ALPHA THAT DOESN"T GO OVER 100% HEAT!!!!!

Haha Clan Large Pulse go Burr.

Edited by Scout Derek, 25 June 2021 - 02:26 PM.


#178 Rizzi Kell

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Posted 26 June 2021 - 03:42 AM

View PostdenAirwalkerrr, on 25 June 2021 - 01:50 PM, said:

Ah yes the classical “I don’t play clan/IS because they are op” card totally not because I am almost religiously playing only other side for some reason so it is my holy duty to post as much as possible to get my side buffed/other side nerfed haha ye other side op so I don play it guys for real because of that I swear xd

>measuring by IS can deal X pinpoint at Y range while clan can do only Z
Ye meanwhile clans have funny mech called Deathstrike that runs 82 pinpoint alpha at almost 500m that can kill amything short of assaults to CT in two alphas. Or Micropulse/SPL boats with ridiculous DPS who can also backstab most of mechs in said 2 alphas.

Jagermech and Rifleman IIC almost identical, JM has maybe a bit better damage due to quirks but it has worse hitboxes, runs IS XL so it’s pretty easy to kill and doesn’t have jumpjet, both mechs are same 65t so this is extremely bad example to complain about. Especially as you word it “RFL-IIC has 6xAC2 over 5 on JM so it should be better”.

PSA: you counter stealth armor by using eyes, from what I know both sides have access to them

IS Large Lasers are still dogshit

Did you know that RFL-IIC can alpha 5xLPL very easily that is even more damage then 6xERLL BLR that you have a problem with?

Be sure to provide more IS better then clans factually wrong opinions I might have time to debunk some more.


So, you whant to tell me that the Jagermech is build with XL-Engine? I tell you something you must not, it can be build with Lightengine too. Same speed as Riffleman, just no jumpjets in.
Sure you can get the Deathstrike for C-Bills???? Can you? I think no. So explaining the deathstrike with 82 Alpha i give you the Marouder 9M against, Light 300 engine, 2MRM 40 4ER med 100 Dmg on same distance but lighter same heat but better weaponhardpoints, should i give you more? Atlas Kraken, MRM 40, MRM30, AC10 5ERMedlasers....., Thanatos 5P, 2xMRM 40 3x ERmedlasers (Oh has ECM and jumpies)... You can continue with nearly every mech on IS Side wait special 45tonns, a Blackjack with MRM 60 (Sure it has XL engine but 60 Alpha for at least 3 times with jumpies???

#179 justcallme A S H

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Posted 26 June 2021 - 03:56 AM

Oh come on Rizzi. You're just being grossly sensationalist.


MRM40 at 500m, you hit every component of a mech. How is that focused?
cERPPC doing 15 PPFLD out to 900m, that is just utterly ridiculous as well.

The issues you are having are not tech base related.

#180 denAirwalkerrr

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Posted 26 June 2021 - 03:58 AM

View PostRizzi Kell, on 26 June 2021 - 03:42 AM, said:


So, you whant to tell me that the Jagermech is build with XL-Engine? I tell you something you must not, it can be build with Lightengine too. Same speed as Riffleman, just no jumpjets in.
Sure you can get the Deathstrike for C-Bills???? Can you? I think no. So explaining the deathstrike with 82 Alpha i give you the Marouder 9M against, Light 300 engine, 2MRM 40 4ER med 100 Dmg on same distance but lighter same heat but better weaponhardpoints, should i give you more? Atlas Kraken, MRM 40, MRM30, AC10 5ERMedlasers....., Thanatos 5P, 2xMRM 40 3x ERmedlasers (Oh has ECM and jumpies)... You can continue with nearly every mech on IS Side wait special 45tonns, a Blackjack with MRM 60 (Sure it has XL engine but 60 Alpha for at least 3 times with jumpies???


Ye totally same speed with LFE dude. At least try to put builds together before once again stating factually wrong points:
https://mech.nav-alp...93d9ddcf_JM6-DD
https://mech.nav-alp...45c0a1ac_JM6-DD
https://mech.nav-alp...b5832_RFL-IIC-2

So we now talking about mech maximum alphas over pinpoint? Well I present to you this then: https://mech.nav-alp...#524c0ead_DWF-W Altho as much as 246 alpha Direwolf sounds amazing IS stil holds the 1st place with only 70t that boats the most OP alpha damage weapon in the game for whooping 350 alphastrike damage so ye IS clearly OP because Rocket Lauchers are best weapons in the game due to alpha: https://mech.nav-alp...a83ddf37_ARC-5W

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 26 June 2021 - 04:02 AM.






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