220 replies to this topic

[Big-G]

Quandoo, on 23 June 2021 - 09:43 AM, said:

All vs all mode

BattleTechRoyale Mode!!!

[Flash Riprock]

My opinion for now…new Polar stinks for cohesive team play. Clan streaks are dead and the proposed changes aren’t much better. Streaks were never overpowered- you can hammer mediums, heavies and assaults all day and not kill them.
Change my mind.

[L1f3H4ck]

SlightlyMobileTurret, on 23 June 2021 - 06:49 PM, said:

It would be embarrassing if 18 tons of weaponry did not beat 8 tons. And this situation is entirely a result of the May patch.

This. The weapon you really need to compare LPLs to are ERPPCs, as they have the same weight and size.

[C337Skymaster]

Navid A1, on 21 June 2021 - 04:36 PM, said:

Essentially all mech variants are "the same mech with different weapons"

Exactly why I still feel Engine Desync was a bad idea. From Beta, PGI have seemed to aim towards making a decent 'mech sim, ironing out inconsistencies from Table Top (rounding errors on running speed when multiplying 1.5 against an odd number of hexes, for example), and have followed that good start with a consistent series of nerfs and exemptions, removing any and all "simulation" aspects and devolving the game into a simple arcade game.

I still say this game is at its best when it's a simulation, not an arcade shooter, hence why MW2: Mercs and MW3 are held as the shining examples of everything Mechwarrior should strive to become.

[Wid1046]

Y E O N N E, on 23 June 2021 - 04:47 PM, said:

Not at this time. Removing min-range entirely across all PPCs did come up in conversation, but more as a "testing the mood of the group" sort of thing.

The PPC family has a very delicate internal balance. The reason PPCs are getting damage fall-off is because it's hard to justify taking them instead of HPPCs for mid range and because there are straight-up-better PPCs for short and long range. Light PPCs have their own niche as filler weapons. So we're going to try giving PPCs an additional boon to offset the extra ton and hardpoint they consume over HPPCs and see if this makes them palatable.

Heavy Mediums are seldom used; they have exactly one niche on the Black Lanner. The duration, cooldown, etc. are all too much for the range they operate in to be competitive against IS Medium Lasers despite their increased damage.

Heavy Larges are currently completely out-classed by C-LPL, especially now that you can fire 3x C-LPL with only a minor inconvenience in the ghost heat (i.e. a MAD-IIC with 2HLL+6CERML = 77 alpha, 3CLPL+6CERML = 78, the latter is dramatically superior). They are more broadly useful than Heavy Medium Lasers, though, I will grant that.

The IS PPC changes sound great and the Heavy Medium Laser changes were definitely needed. HMLs were niche even before the April weapon patch, and ERMLs getting a 14.6% damage/heat buff while the damage per heat of the HML was left alone seemed odd. Buffing the damage/heat of HMLs by 6.7% seems a bit conservative to me, but it will certainly help.

I thought that the Heavy Large Laser was already in a pretty good place though. While it did receive a smaller buff to its damage per heat than either the ERLL or LPL, it didn't seem to me at least that it was doing too bad. It could be a better option to change the heat penalty for the LPL if people are just eating it since 3 is rather low (ERPPC for instance is 7 and AC20/UAC20 is 24). I'm sure the Cauldron has looked into this more thoroughly though, and I'm glad to see that tweaks are still being made where you guys see room for improvement.

Thanks for your work on this.

[K19]

Polar Highlands back old classic plz players bad use new map. realy low skill play make chenge rewars scouts plz PH2 lrms work same make more radar kill in map

[Queen of England]

I've seen people talking about the Uziel and Stormcrow bugs, but I think the Arctic Wolf and Rifleman have issues as well.

  Variant    Weight.Class Attribute        Value Median StdDev  Mean
  <chr>      <fct>        <chr>            <dbl>  <dbl>  <dbl> <dbl>
1 ACW-2      Medium       Accel.High.Rate  228.    29.4   15.3  30.4
2 RFL-5D     Heavy        Decel.Low.Rate  1147.   126.    69.7 139. 
3 SCR-PRIMEI Medium       Turn.Low.Rate    688.   108.    41.7 112. 
4 UZL-3PC    Medium       Accel.Low.Rate    21.6  221.    61.1 221. 

Edited by Queen of England, 23 June 2021 - 09:14 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

SlightlyMobileTurret, on 23 June 2021 - 06:49 PM, said:

It would be embarrassing if 18 tons of weaponry did not beat 8 tons. And this situation is entirely a result of the May patch.

April patch*

I don't think that's a useful way of looking at things unless the two weapons are extremely similar. For example, 8 tons of Medium Pulse Lasers dunk on a single 14-ton AC/20 and 6 tons of ER Medium Lasers generally dunk on 15 tons of Large Lasers. Do we need to gigabuff the AC/20 and the Large Laser because of that? No, because both still have distinct niches where the alternatives by weight don't perform.

In the case of the Heavy Large Laser, its entire purpose is mid-range alpha strike damage in a tonnage-efficient package. When you look at builds it goes on, the 'Mechs that can get the most utility out of this weapon are the ones that lack both hardpoints and tonnage for heatsinks. The gun is currently running too hot for these guys, and the heat is obviously not a concern for the bigger, more conventional strong vomit 'Mechs that are eating ghost from C-LPLs. There's also no danger of pushing the maximum possible laser vomit alpha strike damage up, since the upper limit is defined by the C-LPL. You can point to Gauss-vomit being more viable with the HLL buff, but those builds already run cool enough and still nobody is running them with frequency.

[John Fisherman]

What about Commando?

[Aidan Crenshaw]

John Fisherman, on 23 June 2021 - 11:39 PM, said:

What about Commando?

Got Yaw and Pitch adjusted

Edited by Aidan Crenshaw, 24 June 2021 - 12:05 AM.

[John Fisherman]

Sry my bad English. I mean, why all ligts got armor, or moility, but only commando got nothing? This mech not dangeros for fat and light guys like piranha, or, eaven, firestarter. Its just annoying. Now, when all meches got mobility, this mech with 1 or 2 weapon points, or, eaven 0(TDK), cant do anything.

[Leone]

Because the commando is a solid top tier mech.

~Leone.

[Voice of Kerensky]

The new map is surprisingly deceiving to the eye. I see the target, it seems to be in my full reach (spheroid energy midrange), I shoot, but in fact the distance to it is over a kilometer. And I was not the only one to have such a feeling.

P.S. I have not yet formed a definite opinion about this map. I only played it three or four times on new map.

[justcallme A S H]

MechWarrior177013, on 23 June 2021 - 06:56 PM, said:

This. The weapon you really need to compare LPLs to are ERPPCs, as they have the same weight and size.

You cannot really compare Hitscan with PPFLD. Additionally the ranges are significantly different.

[Kuaron]

Y E O N N E, on 22 June 2021 - 12:51 AM, said:

Abbreviated for, well, brevity.

Just a reminder that the multiplayer component of the older MW games largely devolved into poptarts taking potshots at each other with insta-zap Large Lasers or PPC/Gauss. Or MG-spam rushing. Just like in MWO, you didn't see the type of iconic slugging matches that define the lore except at lower skill levels; it's very quick at the top end of performance.

SlightlyMobileTurret, on 23 June 2021 - 04:00 AM, said:

I can feel what you're trying to say - we are all here because we want the mech experience.

But being able to move and twist and spread damage is integral to balancing this game. Look at the kind of profound effect mere agility changes have given to the Atlas!

Having sluggish mechs and boatloads of pinpoint leads us right into the same issues older games (like MW4) had, where lighter mechs were generally non-viable, and people just ran as much long range, high damage weapons as they could and tried to core each other through the CT.

For all of its faults, MWO remains a uniquely fun experience.

What @GaelicWolf was saying fits my first thoughts on the changes, too.

Has lower agility/handling but higher maximal speed been considered? This should at least help against the long range dominance. Time to kill and FLPPD dominance might be not the best arguments considering damage overall has been buffed in May (not so much FLPPD, admittedly, but still). I’d had wished to see attempts to optimize the gameplay towards something more, let’s say, simulationistic and less torso-twisting, which sadly already seems to be the main skill attribute of this game.

[DAEDALOS513]

Y E O N N E, on 23 June 2021 - 04:39 PM, said:

HPG Manifold is next.

Nah it's fine.

[DAEDALOS513]

Y E O N N E, on 21 June 2021 - 05:46 PM, said:

These values are not finalized, Cauldron is meeting later today on Wednesday to have one last debate and reach consensus about them.

IS Changes:

• ER Small Laser: Heat reduced to 1.9 (from 2.2)
  
• Large Laser: Range increased to 480 m (from 450), Heat reduced to 6.4 (from 6.7)
  
• ER Large Laser: Range increased to 740 m (from 700)
  
• Light PPC: Damage increased to 5.5 (from 5)
  
• PPC: some TBD form of damage fall-off between 0 and 90 meters
  
• Snub-nose PPC: Damage increased to 1.5+8.5+1.5 (from 1.5+8+1.5)
  
• LB-5X: Slot requirement reduced to 4 (from 5)
  
• Streak SRM4: Cooldown reduced to 3.25 s (from 3.5 s)
  
• Streak SRM6: Cooldown reduced to 4 s (from 4.25)
  
• LRM (all): Impulse reduced to 0.15 per missile (from 0.3)...massively reduced screen shake

Clan Changes:

• Heavy Small Laser: Cooldown reduced to 3.75 s (from 4)
  
• Heavy Medium Laser: Cooldown reduced to 4.5 s (from 5), Heat reduced to 7.5 (from 8)
  
• Heavy Large Laser: Heat reduced to 14.5 (from 16)
  
• Clan ER Large Laser: Range increased to 810 m (from 770)
  
• Clan Streak SRM2: Damage increased to 1.75 per missile (from 1.5), Cooldown increased to 2.5 s (from 2), Heat increased to 1.45 (from 1.3)
  
• Clan Streak SRM4: Damage increased to 1.75 per missile (from 1.5), Cooldown increased to 3.75 s (from 3), Heat increased to 2.7 (from 2.4)
  
• Clan Streak SRM6: Damage increased to 1.75 per missile (from 1.5), Cooldown increased to 5 s (from 4), Heat increased to 3.5 (from 3.1)
  
• Clan LRM5: Missile Health increased to 1.5 per missile (from 1.2), Impulse reduced to 0.07 per missile (from 0.15)
  
• Clan LRM10: Missile Health increased to 1.25 per missile (from 1.1), Impulse reduced to 0.07 per missile (from 0.15)
  
• Clan LRM15: Missile Health increased to 1.05 per missile (from 0.9), Impulse reduced to 0.07 per missile (from 0.15)
  
• Clan LRM20: Missile Health increased to 0.95 per missile (from 0.8), Impulse reduced to 0.07 per missile (from 0.15)

Most of these weapon buffs are unnecessary and all these buffs in general are getting ridiculous. You won't be happy until every loadout is a one-shot kill smh

[P U L S E O N L Y]

DAEDALOS513, on 24 June 2021 - 06:48 AM, said:

Most of these weapon buffs are unnecessary and all these buffs in general are getting ridiculous. You won't be happy until every loadout is a one-shot kill smh

What is, in your opinion, necessary?

[John Bronco]

DAEDALOS513, on 24 June 2021 - 06:48 AM, said:

Most of these weapon buffs are unnecessary and all these buffs in general are getting ridiculous. You won't be happy until every loadout is a one-shot kill smh

Have you anything constructive to add? Or did you just pop in to make preposterous statement, bereft of any actual thought?

[denAirwalkerrr]

DAEDALOS513, on 24 June 2021 - 06:48 AM, said:

Most of these weapon buffs are unnecessary and all these buffs in general are getting ridiculous. You won't be happy until every loadout is a one-shot kill smh

Ah yes LPPC and SNPPC doing 0.5 more damage and 0.25 higher CSSRM missile damage will make every single mech turn into nuke as soon as they hit them.