151 replies to this topic

[JimHatama]

mobility changes are awful. they destroy class differences and make game more of a reaction shooter, also all this benefits heavy and assault class most. why would atlas need to rotate torso at medium mech speed wtf? it was changed for a reason and for good

basically all changes gulag making are bad - mobility, high dps, buffing jump jets,rescale. Its a shame that PGI dont have their own vision of a game and listens to some vocal community instead.

Edited by JimHatama, 24 June 2021 - 01:28 AM.

[Leone]

Welcome to the vocal minority! As for the atlas torso twisting, I would posit that they, do not in fact, rotate as fast as a medium.

~Leone.

[Wid1046]

JimHatama, on 24 June 2021 - 01:26 AM, said:

mobility changes are awful. they destroy class differences and make game more of a reaction shooter, also all this benefits heavy and assault class most. why would atlas need to rotate torso at medium mech speed wtf? it was changed for a reason and for good

basically all changes gulag making are bad - mobility, high dps, buffing jump jets,rescale. Its a shame that PGI dont have their own vision of a game and listens to some vocal community instead.

Almost all of the Cauldron patches have been a net gain for the game. There are a few things that need/have needed additional tweaking, but the Cauldron has shown that they are willing to address those things (like when SPPCs were doing too much pinpoint). [Redacted], but the rest of the Cauldron seem very helpful. Pointing out areas for improvement is useful, just saying that you hate everything about everything isn't.

As for the Atlas, it only has a better torso turn rate than three Mediums chassis, and one of those is the V.Eagle, which really didn't need any new buffs. They probably overbuffed the Atlas when comparing it to other Assaults, but it isn't too excessive and they may be planning on giving most other mechs better quirks while ignoring the Atlas in the quirk patches.

I also don't get why you seem to be against rescale, since you were complaining about Cauldron changes mostly helping Heavies and Assaults. I don't know the exact amounts that the Cauldron has recommended to PGI for rescale, but from what I've heard, I expect that it will help Mediums and Lights more than Heavies and Assaults.

Edited by Armchair General, 24 June 2021 - 06:48 AM.
Hidden insult removal

[D A T A]

Some assault mechs are way too underbuffed, to the point their agility is pathetic. 90 tonners up in particular. Night gyr is underbuffed too.
The turn rate should have been minimum 45 on assaults, or at least it should not have been bumped like that on already turbo agile mechs: instead most if em still sit at 35-40.
Accell decell on some mechs is still pathetic and should have been +2/+3 on almost all 90-100 tonners
Piranha cipher (9micropulse+6mg) is overbuffed, a gunboat like that above commando agility level is insane.
The rest is perfectly in place

Edited by D A T A, 24 June 2021 - 05:00 AM.

[JimHatama]

the mobility on assaults SHOULD be pathetic. Its a class that relies on positioning and teammates, lone wolves should choose meds or heavies.

I mean ok you could give asslt acceleration and deceleration and torso twist - ok and whats the point in other classes then?
By this logic I could buff light class armor and structure

[D A T A]

JimHatama, on 24 June 2021 - 05:36 AM, said:

the mobility on assaults SHOULD be pathetic. Its a class that relies on positioning and teammates, lone wolves should choose meds or heavies.

I mean ok you could give asslt acceleration and deceleration and torso twist - ok and whats the point in other classes then?
By this logic I could buff light class armor and structure

Unfortunatelly it has already been done: lights and meds have uber survival boosts via skill tree.

Not saying assaults should have 30000 agility, but if a timber is ok at 30 accell rate, a kodiak could have had 12, a direwolf fafnir, annihilator too

[X T R E M E]

Some lights have way too much agility, especially the piranha cipher.
I think the agility pass went way too much in favor of lights, instead of fixing those who got hurt the most with skill tree in 2017

[ACH75]

Turn Rates under 50°/sec are garbage for Assaults!

Same thing for Acceleration/Deceleration under 20kph/sec

Try manouvering your mechs around the Crates on Forest Colony Testing Grounds


I also suggest a revision of the Climbing angles and deceleration penalties while navigating slopes.

Just Climbing modest slopes is extremely punishing:

for example it's impossible to climb in a straight line on the path from one of the spawns

on Frozen City Classic, the Assaults literally stops repeatedly

Edited by ACH75, 24 June 2021 - 07:08 AM.

[Wid1046]

D A T A, on 24 June 2021 - 05:40 AM, said:

Unfortunatelly it has already been done: lights and meds have uber survival boosts via skill tree.

Not saying assaults should have 30000 agility, but if a timber is ok at 30 accell rate, a kodiak could have had 12, a direwolf fafnir, annihilator too

I'm basically just copying and pasting this example from another time that you brought up the survival tree being overpowered for lights, but here it is again:

The survivability tree won't do much if your armor and structure pool are next to nothing to begin with. Let's compare the effects of a maxed out survivability tree on the legs of a flea vs an annihilator.
The flea starts out with 16 armor on it's leg with a quirk of +6 bringing it to 22 armor, the maxed out survival tree gives a 23% boost to that 22 armor which is 5 addition armor for a total of 27.
The annihilator starts off with 84 armor in its legs with a quirk of +7 bringing it to 91 armor, the maxed out tree gives a 10% boost to that 91 armor which is 9 additional armor for a total of 100.
The flea starts out with 8 structure, the maxed out tree gives a 38% boost to that structure which is 3 additional structure for a total of 11.
The annihilator starts out with 42 structure, the maxed out tree gives a boost of 25% which is 10 for a total of 52.

So the flea with a maxed out 'uber survival tree' gets a total of 8 extra hit points to bring its total to 38 while the annihilator will get 19 extra hit points. The flea can still be legged in a single pinpoint hit, so increased mobility is probably a better use of the 32 skill points required to get every armor hardening and skeletal density node.

[D A T A]

Wid1046, on 24 June 2021 - 06:41 AM, said:

I'm basically just copying and pasting this example from another time that you brought up the survival tree being overpowered for lights, but here it is again:

The survivability tree won't do much if your armor and structure pool are next to nothing to begin with. Let's compare the effects of a maxed out survivability tree on the legs of a flea vs an annihilator.
The flea starts out with 16 armor on it's leg with a quirk of +6 bringing it to 22 armor, the maxed out survival tree gives a 23% boost to that 22 armor which is 5 addition armor for a total of 27.
The annihilator starts off with 84 armor in its legs with a quirk of +7 bringing it to 91 armor, the maxed out tree gives a 10% boost to that 91 armor which is 9 additional armor for a total of 100.
The flea starts out with 8 structure, the maxed out tree gives a 38% boost to that structure which is 3 additional structure for a total of 11.
The annihilator starts out with 42 structure, the maxed out tree gives a boost of 25% which is 10 for a total of 52.

So the flea with a maxed out 'uber survival tree' gets a total of 8 extra hit points to bring its total to 38 while the annihilator will get 19 extra hit points. The flea can still be legged in a single pinpoint hit, so increased mobility is probably a better use of the 32 skill points required to get every armor hardening and skeletal density node.

Exactly, armor should go more in proportion with tonnage.
If a 20 tonner can have +8, a 100 tonner should have at least +30, given it is 5 times heavier and 20 times bigger

[Nightbird]

Armor buffs should be changed to a fixed value, so people can stop looking at %s lol.

[Wid1046]

D A T A, on 24 June 2021 - 06:45 AM, said:

Exactly, armor should go more in proportion with tonnage.
If a 20 tonner can have +8, a 100 tonner should have at least +30, given it is 5 times heavier and 20 times bigger

I disagree. The +8 will not prevent the flea from being legged in a single PPFLD shot, so the survivability tree is pretty useless for it. If you actually gave the Annihilator an extra 30 hit points in pure bonus to each of its legs, that would be very broken.

Edited by Wid1046, 24 June 2021 - 07:01 AM.

[JimHatama]

ACH75, on 24 June 2021 - 06:30 AM, said:

Turn Rates under 50°/sec are garbage for Assaults!

Same thing for Acceleration/Deceleration under 20kph/sec

Try manouvering your mechs around the Crates on Forest Colony Testing Gro
unds

well.. if you want manouvering arnd something use medium? why would assault should be good at everything?

[Wid1046]

Nightbird, on 24 June 2021 - 06:48 AM, said:

Armor buffs should be changed to a fixed value, so people can stop looking at %s lol.

I mostly agree. The only problem is that you'd then be buffing each component by the same amount. It wouldn't be bad for arms and legs to get the same bonus as your CT, but giving the same bonus to your head armor or an arm that you stripped down to nothing might be a bit unbalanced. It might be work if you also made survivability no longer affect your head.

[Nightbird]

Wid1046, on 24 June 2021 - 07:10 AM, said:

I mostly agree. The only problem is that you'd then be buffing each component by the same amount. It wouldn't be bad for arms and legs to get the same bonus as your CT, but giving the same bonus to your head armor or an arm that you stripped down to nothing might be a bit unbalanced. It might be work if you also made survivability no longer affect your head.

Just list the total value in the skill node, distribute to each component as needed.

[Wid1046]

Nightbird, on 24 June 2021 - 07:15 AM, said:

Just list the total value in the skill node, distribute to each component as needed.

That could be a good way to do it once the Cauldron gets to making their simplified skill system. No idea when that is planned for though; it sounds like quirks won't be done until at least September, so likely not until sometime after that.

Edited by Wid1046, 24 June 2021 - 07:32 AM.

[ACH75]

JimHatama, on 24 June 2021 - 07:05 AM, said:

well.. if you want manouvering arnd something use medium? why would assault should be good at everything?

'cause getting stuck everywhere it's not fun and it's not fair... like being backstabbed by a light without being able to
return any fire

base values have to be decent values for every class, it's all anyway proportional to tonnage... extremism is not balance

[Mochyn Pupur]

justcallme A S H, on 22 June 2021 - 01:39 PM, said:

You are indeed reading it wrong.

Go use the chart to compare.

Nope, reading the charts linked from your first post clearly shows massive improvements for the lights - that is unless you have got your figures the wrong way round between old and new values . . . . . . .

[justcallme A S H]

Yes many lights received improvement. However thst was not your issue.

PeppaPig, on 22 June 2021 - 07:02 AM, said:

Wow - am I reading this wrong, or did all the best performing lights just get yet another huge boost in mobility, especially when considering they are still seen as being the worst offenders for having over performance

You said best performing.

Just look at the Commando, is basically got nothing.

Lights are not over performing. They have been and still are, the least represented class in MWO gameplay.
If they were over performing everyone would be using them, they aren't.

[Davegt27]

justcallme A S H, on 24 June 2021 - 01:49 PM, said:

Yes many lights received improvement. However thst was not your issue.



You said best performing.

Just look at the Commando, is basically got nothing.

Lights are not over performing. They have been and still are, the least represented class in MWO gameplay.
If they were over performing everyone would be using them, they aren't.

are you making the same mistake PGI has been making all these years?

are you trying to balance lights against assaults ?

some people will never get into a light no matter what you do
same for other that will never get into an assault

it would be a slippery slope

if your working on making the game more fun then focus on that
JMTCW