83 replies to this topic

[Wid1046]

Meep Meep, on 29 June 2021 - 04:58 AM, said:

Again viability is key here too. The lynx build actually has less ammo at 300 shots per hmg vs 500 for the cipher. The cipher also has plentiful energy backup if it runs dry on mg ammo where the lynx is mainly relying on those 300 shots for the majority of its damage output. Two er smalls just aint gonna do much to either open up a mech or keep the fight going.

This will work far better at stripping armor so you can crit them out.

MLX-G

The MLX-G build that I posted definitely isn't optimal, but it is viable. Those 300 shots are from HMGs which do 50% more damage than the regular MGs on the Cipher, and there are 8 of them instead of 6. So 8 HMGs can do 20% more damage with 300 shots than 6 MG with 500 shots. I envisioned the MLX-G build as a mech that would go in after mech components were already opened up in order to cripple and destroy mechs.

Again though, it definitely isn't optimized. Here's a couple better builds for the MLX-G than what I originally posted.
MLX-G (15.46 dps sustained) This build has the same amount of ammo, but switches to 4 ER micros for better dps.
MLX-G (13.73 dps sustained) This build has an extra half ton of ammo by swapping the 2 ER smalls for 2 ER micros.

Edit: The second build that I posted wasn't all that well optimized either since you can add an extra ER micro just by dropping a bit of head armor. Here's the updated second build:
MLX-G (14.59 dps sustained)

Your build is good for stripping armor, however Carlo was saying that the Piranha was the only mech that could do 12+ dps sustained, and that build can only manage 11.42 dps sustained without skills. So while it is a good build, it isn't really what was being looked for.

Edited by Wid1046, 29 June 2021 - 11:20 AM.

[CarloArmato]

@wid1046 wow, you are the incarnation of the "technically correct" meme.
Yes, 13 dps heat stable build is actually greater than 12 but guess what

• it is slower
  
• it is bigger
  
• has very bad hitboxes (side torsoes are huge...)
  
• ... which coupled with an XL engine means the first dual gauss in a side torso will throw you back to the mechlab
  
• SRM4 (even non artemis), which means you spread the damage unless point blank

Also, I don't know you, but unless I'm literally at point blank range (less than 10, maybe 20 meters) there is no way you can avoid spreading or missing some missiles against any non-assault mech, plus 120 meters at 150 km/h means you still have to travel a total of ~3 seconds to move at point blank range.

I remember trying the Osiris 3D a dozen of matches, I haven't sold it yet but I remember that the single SRM2 can't focus damage at any range above 50 meters or something like that, which means is almost useless in a pure DPS build when face time is key and you are either forced to get close to fire your alpha with such a narrow angle that you can't keep up with your target, or keep your range and anticipate the SRMs due to travel time.

On a side note, don't get me wrong: I do want to see more lights on the field, but there are very few viable builds and most builds are almost completely useless (how many RVN-4X 2xLPL or 2xERLL or similar have you seen lately?). Most lights doesn't stand a chance against a piranha... Maybe an urbie K9 5xMPL can tank it and a Flea-17 can dodge most damage, but flea is another overperformer. I also do feel that at the moment there is actually too much poinpoint for any light to work, but that doesn't mean piranha is not overperforming when compared to any other light.

[1453 R]

Oh, can it.

You're holding up a complete nonsense meme build - the 10x HSL Piranha - as the King of Lightweight Alphas, and a lulzy troll build with too many machine guns as the King of Lightweight DPS. Any complaint you have about the splat alpha on the Jenner-IIC can be countered by "if you hit your triggers just a hair too close together on the Piranha, you kill yourself with ghost heat damage".

The heavy laser spam INC-4 comes within seven points of the Meme Fish's oh-so-terrifying 65-point HSL "alpha" without any fear whatsoever of ghost heat, in a more durable 'Mech with vastly better cockpit geometry - and I will always remind people that the Piranha's cockpit is so terrible that it legitimately counts as a hindrance/balancing factor to that 'Mech. The splat Jenner in its various incarnations can eat an SRM ghost heat blast without killing itself with overheat damage, if it has to.

Is the Piranha very dangerously armed for its weight? Absolutely. It is still a twenty-ton BattleMech that has to make sacrifices somewhere to pack all that weaponry on. Treating it like an unkillable god and just giving up the moment one shows up is exactly what it wants and a great way to defeat yourself.

Also? Light pilots are no better at hitting other light 'Mechs than anybody else is. "No other light 'Mech can beat a Piranha one-on-one!" is nonsense because the Piranha will flail just as pointlessly at other fast lights as everybody else does - even more so, since the Piranha is going a hundred-fifty itself. An Adder with cERPPCs and decent aim can pick apart a Piranha with ease. A splat Jenner can shotgun half a Piranha away with one well-placed salvo. A Flea easily outmaneuvers the fish and is generally more durable to boot. The Capellan Trash Can has a 360-degree torso twist and is impossible for a fish to catch from behind if the Urbs pilot knows the fish is there - you'll just see the front of that Urbs and all its assorted and sundry armaments until it dies or you do.

Doomfish are not invincible super assassins. They're good, but they're not unstoppable. The best answer remains: Shoot the Fish™.

[Meep Meep]

Wid1046, on 29 June 2021 - 05:24 AM, said:

Your build is good for stripping armor, however Carlo was saying that the Piranha was the only mech that could do 12+ dps sustained, and that build can only manage 11.42 dps sustained without skills. So while it is a good build, it isn't really what was being looked for.

Thats the point. Mg for backstabbing or open component farming late game are not based around raw damage alone. The entire point of boating mg is that each shot has a chance of dealing a critical and each mg has a high rate of fire so when taken in total they are a crit monster provided you opened up your target first.

For the best crit farming you want either mg which is the best balance of crits vs damage or light mg which are the best on dealing crits quickly but suffers on damage output as a balance. Heavy mg are the high damage low crit dealer and not what you want to use to farm crits.

So your builds whilst having good paper dps are going to be suboptimal on doing what they are designed to do since they rely on your heavy mg with limited ammo to both deal damage and farm crits with only token backup lasers.

Again viability is what matters not raw dps.