261 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

justcallme A S H, on 02 July 2021 - 01:51 AM, said:

It unfortunately is. You said:

I've asked you 3 times now to prove that statement which is absolutely conjecture.

You then said Low Tier players quit as they were matched with High Tier. I asked for proof to acertain how large of an issue it is. You haven't provided anything, again.

As you are clearly unwilling to provide the evidence there simply is nothing further that can be discussed with you on this topic as you're just making it up.

Its simply a case of whats more likely

That thousands of people endured playing the hundreds of games to get to tier 1, obviously not deterred by the games major flaws, and just decided to quit

or that thousands of tier 3s-tier5s got sick of playing unbalanced matchups against players two tiers higher than them and in groups and decided to quit.

the latter just seems more plausible to me.

especially since the game kindve has a history of unbalanced matchups, specifically those involving groups, driving other players to quit the game. like faction play, group queue, and solo queue in the past when groups were allowed. what exactly has changed about that that wouldnt drive players away this time? its the same exact situation we have seen repeated time and time again.

Edited by Khobai, 02 July 2021 - 02:14 AM.

[RUSTY RASTIL]

Just find your niche and try to have fun! Maybe put those metamechs on a shelve and do something dumb. I have recently stopped giving a **** about anything, went full mechdad and only play IS zombies. I never had so much fun in this "great" game.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Thorqemada, on 02 July 2021 - 01:53 AM, said:

Here is the link to the post:
MWO: Forums - Combined Queues - Discoveries Week 1 (mwomercs.com)

Thanks, information from that time of 2020 is so vague and often needs to be read in context of other posts, that I don't know what to make out of it. What times are we talking? We don't know. Paul had been throwing numbers around and was tweaking the MM algorithm without publicly documenting, that I'm not sure what the actual state of the MM is.

Anyhow, I'm conjecting that these odd-matches happen so rarely that no one really is going to notice. No new player is going to leave because they met a T1 player in 3 matches of 100 (that would be a very high occurence rate), the won't even have a chance to notice it, because you can get stomped by even matched peers all the like.

Khobai, on 02 July 2021 - 02:07 AM, said:

Its simply a case of whats more likely

That thousands of people endured playing the hundreds of games to get to tier 1, obviously not deterred by the games major flaws, and just decided to quit

or that thousands of tier 3s-tier5s got sick of playing unbalanced matchups against players two tiers higher than them and in groups and decided to quit.

the latter just seems more plausible to me.

especially since the game kindve has a history of unbalanced matchups, specifically those involving groups, driving other players to quit the game. like faction play, group queue, and solo queue in the past when groups were allowed. what exactly has changed about that that wouldnt drive players away this time? its the same exact situation we have seen repeated time and time again.

It doesn't matter how you put it or what is how likely. It's still conjecture. Because we don't know.

[Vxheous]

Thorqemada, on 02 July 2021 - 01:53 AM, said:

Sorry, Guys, to PGI itself stated that there is a timespan in which the MM tries to get "good" matches together and after that it does simply match together what is available.

Here is the quote:
"There are times where the Match Maker runs out of players. When this happens and the queue is waiting to fill beyond release valve timers, there will be the odd circumstance where all valves are open and you will see a full open Tier/Weight Class match formed. While this is fairly rare, it is possible."

Here is the link to the post:
MWO: Forums - Combined Queues - Discoveries Week 1 (mwomercs.com)

Yes, there is a release valve when population drops to a ridiculous level, but it rarely ever happens, because most games kick off before we hit the release valve time.

[Khobai]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 02 July 2021 - 02:16 AM, said:

It doesn't matter how you put it or what is how likely. It's still conjecture. Because we don't know.

Yeah that bit is conjecture on my part admittedly.

I meant the part about matchmaker having a release valve wasnt conjecture because PGI has actually stated it multiple times.

[justcallme A S H]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 02 July 2021 - 02:16 AM, said:

Anyhow, I'm conjecting that these odd-matches happen so rarely that no one really is going to notice. No new player is going to leave because they met a T1 player in 3 matches of 100 (that would be a very high occurence rate), the won't even have a chance to notice it, because you can get stomped by even matched peers all the like.

I'd say you're not using conjecture at all. It's just common sense from someone that understands what is going on.


I am very, very sure they are of a very low occurrence rare with all the observing I've done, 100s of hours there.

If it doesn't happen in the Oceanic time zone and hasn't been this year, so 7 months now, it cannot be used as a basis or foundation to form an argument upon.

[Anomalocaris]

Instead of conjecture, let's ask some questions of the playerbase (not on the forums, but either in game or through an email survey sent by PGI).

If we start from the assumption that the restart of development and then the Cauldron changes had an impact on the game population (and it is an assumption, but without this one, nothing else matters), then what do we need to know?

First we need the basics. Username would be enough to scrape games played, WLR, KDR, distribution of mech classes, etc. Might be nice to have Tier level as well.

From there it goes to quality of life questions. Particularly for those that are decreasing their playtime or have stopped playing in the last 3 months. What change has impacted your playtime the most (positively or negatively)? Give them a multiple choice list if necessary to ease the process of categorizing reasons.

There are a bunch of questions that can be constructed. It's been a long time since I had to craft a customer satisfaction survey in a corporate environment, but if PGI doesn't have someone, I'm sure the Cauldron and/or the playerbase in general has people with recent experience in this.

The problem might not be what a lot of us think it is. You all know I hate Soup Queue (and have made the case it hurt population after its implementation). But when we started to see gains from last October till May, Soup Queue, may it die in fire, was a constant. Maybe its crushing the life out of newer players when they reach higher tiers. I don't know, but it hasn't changed recently, so we can't assume that's it.

Maybe we're seeing players who are at their personal skill cap and feel less competitive now that mechs are more agile, PPFLD is more dominant (or at least more common) and lock-ons are nerfed. We have to remember that the population will always have a skill spread between top and bottom - exacerbated by equipment, ping, physical limitations and intoxicants. Some people may only be able to contribute with weapons like lock-ons because that's as good as they're going to get (never forget the age of the population in MWO).

Point is, we don't know. We can hypothesize an infinite range of reasons why people would leave. But the best bet might just be to ask them.....if people really want the population to grow, figure out what the population wants.

[FinnMcKool]

isn't it odd that the guy who started this thread seems to be forgotten

just like many other players

Walls of text don't help anyone ,even if your correct in everything you
say

we need to try and see the other guys point and try, try to help everyone to have fun

[pattonesque]

FinnMcKool, on 02 July 2021 - 11:41 AM, said:

isn't it odd that the guy who started this thread seems to be forgotten

just like many other players

Walls of text don't help anyone ,even if your correct in everything you
say

we need to try and see the other guys point and try, try to help everyone to have fun

The other guy’s point of view is “anything I like should be buffed, anything I’m bad at should be nerfed” and then a million edits after the fact

[FinnMcKool]

pattonesque, on 02 July 2021 - 12:07 PM, said:

The other guy’s point of view is “anything I like should be buffed, anything I’m bad at should be nerfed” and then a million edits after the fact

I get it I do but that wasn't the original poster

and lets face it we are all like that ; some worse than others, people get so angry, life is to short live and let live, I dont know anyone making the decisions about the game, but I think they have done pretty well so far considering, so dont worry about what who ever says this or that,???

[Alex Morgaine]

Honestly I'd love to see a Campaign mode, even bare bones. I got an idea... It might...
Uh oh... Pointless wall of text time look out!

Ok say at the start of a FP season all factions have XXXX cbills, xXxX tons of maintenance materials, etc. your Mechs value is how much is spent repairing it, so high cost Mechs are considered high performance vs low cost "gets the job done too" Mechs with more simplified systems. No stock mech mode shenanigans, even on table top people just pick the most optimal there as well unless they lol-charger rush or something. You pick as many of Your Mechs owned as you want, and they're locked in build, but usable in QP like a 'psuedo' trial. Your faction holds resources that make components cheaper to replace, or generate cbills, or just components other factions don't have period. Mechs that are "destroyed" take a bit of time to repair fully, but at extra cost [to the faction] can be rushed instantly. Depending on your rank, rushing jobs may be limited to try to keep trolls from crashing a faction economy. Faction warfare keeps the main modes, and adds in resource raiding. You can take any tonnage mech into a raid, but it's a 3-5 mission mode [defending/landing, scouting, attacking, holding assets, retreat from the planet with loot] where you may get partial armor and component repairs, but unless you use assets claimed or bright with you as extra allocation in the raid, little to no ammo at all (maybe allow each pilot to allocate up to 100 tons of faction material minus your Mechs weight, course bringing a 60 ton mech and 40 tons of ammo might defeat the point of grabbing stuff from the enemy)...

Ok brain slowing down.

[Khobai]

pattonesque, on 02 July 2021 - 12:07 PM, said:

The other guy’s point of view is “anything I like should be buffed, anything I’m bad at should be nerfed” and then a million edits after the fact

which is entirely false. because all I want is a balanced game. I want balanced matches with balanced teams. I want all mechs to be balanced so there isnt a top tier class of metamechs. and I want all playstyles to be equally balanced.

Cauldron are the ones repeatedly pushing an agenda to increase the skill gap of the game by promoting unbalanced matches, making PPFLD weapons better, nerfing lowskill weapons like streaks, adding mobility buffs so players that torso twist gain bigger advantages over players that dont, buffing jumpjets so they can make poptarting stronger, and they keep buffing toptier mechs so they can stay on top.

[Leone]

Your Campaign mode sounds kinda like NBT, which sadly, didn't end up working out. The issue'd be the whole, lack of folk. Kinda means we hafta just drop with whomever is available.

~Leone

Edited by Leone, 03 July 2021 - 12:11 AM.

[Vxheous]

Khobai, on 02 July 2021 - 10:04 PM, said:

which is entirely false. because all I want is a balanced game. I want balanced matches with balanced teams. I want all mechs to be balanced so there isnt a top tier class of metamechs. and I want all playstyles to be equally balanced.

Cauldron are the ones repeatedly pushing an agenda to increase the skill gap of the game by promoting unbalanced matches, making PPFLD weapons better, nerfing lowskill weapons like streaks, adding mobility buffs so players that torso twist gain bigger advantages over players that dont, buffing jumpjets so they can make poptarting stronger, and they keep buffing toptier mechs so they can stay on top.

Except none of the top meta mechs got buffed, or the top meta weapons.

[Khobai]

Vxheous, on 03 July 2021 - 12:29 AM, said:

Except none of the top meta mechs got buffed, or the top meta weapons.

according to this a good number of top tier mechs did get mobility buffs. Furthermore Cauldron now wants to buff jumpjets on ALL mechs including the top tier mechs.

https://mwomercs.com...obility-changes


And what do you mean meta weapons werent buffed? Gauss was buffed. PPCs were buffed. CUAC2 were buffed. A good number of weapons currently used on top tier mechs received buffs.

[Vxheous]

Khobai, on 03 July 2021 - 12:39 AM, said:

according to this a good number of top tier mechs did get mobility buffs. Furthermore Cauldron now wants to buff jumpjets on ALL mechs including the top tier mechs.

https://mwomercs.com...obility-changes


And what do you mean meta weapons werent buffed? Gauss was buffed. PPCs were buffed. CUAC2 were buffed. A good number of weapons currently used on top tier mechs received buffs.

Mobility as a whole was raised across the board, with the worst mechs getting the most changes (see Veagle getting fairly limited changes as opposed to other weaker mediums as an example).

Gauss wasn't meta, AC2, UAC5, UAC10s were meta, Gauss was brought back up to usefulness. Standard AC2s was the meta hence UAC2 got a very slight buff. Clan ERPPC was the meta weapon, the rest of the PPC family was garbage, so it was buffed.

So no, the meta weapons of the last several years (boated AC2, boated UAC5/UAC10 combos, and IS medium pulse lasers) did NOT GET BUFFED.

[Castigatus]

See, this above exchange shows a major part of the problem, a vocal few opponents of the Cauldron who constantly misunderstand or outright lie about the changes and the reasoning behind them for reasons that make no damn sense to anyone who isn't them. Couple that with a stubborn refusal to argue in good faith or to ever accept they might be wrong about anything and we have this current shitshow every time they open their mouths.

[Khobai]

Vxheous, on 03 July 2021 - 12:48 AM, said:

Mobility as a whole was raised across the board, with the worst mechs getting the most changes (see Veagle getting fairly limited changes as opposed to other weaker mediums as an example).

Gauss wasn't meta, AC2, UAC5, UAC10s were meta, Gauss was brought back up to usefulness. Standard AC2s was the meta hence UAC2 got a very slight buff. Clan ERPPC was the meta weapon, the rest of the PPC family was garbage, so it was buffed.

So no, the meta weapons of the last several years (boated AC2, boated UAC5/UAC10 combos, and IS medium pulse lasers) did NOT GET BUFFED.

1) The worst mechs and best mechs still arnt equal though. The same exact mechs are still top tier. And now they have mobility buffs too. And Cauldron wants to give them jumpjet buffs now too.

2) Gauss and PPCs are definitely meta now. The agility buffs have made non-PPFLD weapons weaker. [Redacted]

Edited by Armchair General, 04 July 2021 - 12:56 PM.

[Khobai]

Castigatus, on 03 July 2021 - 01:06 AM, said:

See, this above exchange shows a major part of the problem, a vocal few opponents of the Cauldron who constantly misunderstand or outright lie about the changes and the reasoning behind them for reasons that make no damn sense to anyone who isn't them. Couple that with a stubborn refusal to argue in good faith or to ever accept they might be wrong about anything and we have this current shitshow every time they open their mouths.

I didnt lie about any changes.

All one has to do is look at the list of mobility changes to see that top tier mechs were indeed buffed. They may have been buffed less but they were still buffed nonetheless and still remain top tier. The worst and best mechs are still not equal.

Same with the weapons. Cauldron's weapon changes caused a meta shift away from brawling and more towards a poking/sniping meta. They may not have buffed previous meta weapons. But they did engineer a new meta which favors "skill" weapons like Gauss which were recently buffed.

[Vxheous]

Khobai, on 03 July 2021 - 01:34 AM, said:

I didnt lie about any changes.

All one has to do is look at the list of mobility changes to see that top tier mechs were indeed buffed. They may have been buffed less but they were still buffed nonetheless and still remain top tier. The worst and best mechs are still not equal.

Same with the weapons. Cauldron's weapon changes caused a meta shift away from brawling and more towards a poking/sniping meta. They may not have buffed previous meta weapons. But they did engineer a new meta which favors "skill" weapons like Gauss which were recently buffed.

The mobility changes are a straight top to bottom increase for EVERY SINGLE MECH, for the reason of returning gameplay to pre engine desync levels (or very close to it). That's it, that was the only motivation for the mobility changes.

Weapon changes were done so that every weapon is fun to use again. How you go about using them is your business. Brawling is fine, we've been over this in numerous threads, you've been shut down about it in numerous threads by the moderators, so please, just stop.

Edited by Vxheous, 03 July 2021 - 01:41 AM.