135 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

tomzah, on 29 July 2021 - 02:51 AM, said:

Denial in face of changes for the worse is typical human reaction. The other type of reaction to take advantage of the situation and just go with the flow. When it comes ot MWO this is what we see as diminishing build variety. Mid/long range laser vomit was one of the strongest weapon classes, if not the strongest, even before Cauldron started butting in. They did not need any buff, maybe with exception of heavy lasers. Cauldron took the arguably strongest and most reliable weapon category and turned it into a god-tier. And how do you counter something like this when you don't want to/can't rely on the team? By using even shorter exposure weapons such as LPL, PPC and gausses... Oh what a coincidence... almost looks like pretty much all you see on the battlefield nowadays at highest tiers. You can claim other weapon classes are doing fine all you want but the reality is different. If you give universal boost to weapons that have immediate impact over mid-long ranges and minimal or no splash depending on player, then all the other weapon classes that have delayed impact and bigger splash that the player can't really affect other than by facehugging the enemy are gonna lose out on the deal. It's simple math. The only thing you can claim is that is still OK, kind of like the attitude we assume towards climate change. Luckily for us, the state of this game doesn't threaten our existence. Cauldron screwed up and that is the truth of the matter. The only question is if they will admit their mistake and fix it or play innocent. In case of latter the mid/long range laser vomits will essentially replace ATM veagles, except there will be swarms of them, not flocks. Yesterday I played a game with 10 laser vomits on the enemy side - 2 battlemasters (a group, ERLRG), 2 grashoppers (LRG/MED), 2 timbys (ERMEDLPL), 1 direwolf (ERLRG), 2 madIIC's (ERMEDLPL) and a raven (ERLRG). You can imagine how it went down. You may claim that I'm making it up or that it's just an extreme case and it's only people skilling new mechs up but I don't share your optimism. People don't like to give up god-tier toys and that's what mid/long range laser vomit is today.

Denial. Yep. I deny that prior to April of this year that mid/long range laser vomit was one of the strongest weapons classes.

(By the way, what does that even mean? That it was played by the majority of top tier players more than others? That it was more consistently played by all players more than others, and with consistently better results? That when played on any given chassis across all weight classes it had statistically verifiable superior damage output and showed increased odds of a positive w/l ratio? Just what does "one of the strongest weapons classes" mean exactly?)

I deny that many of the weapons touched thus far by the caldron did not need to be buffed. I deny that mid/long range laser vomit is currently "god tier". I deny that "almost all you see in the game these days is the aforementioned or "LPL, PPC and gausses".

While I can't speak to what goes on in the highest level of comp play these days (the highest tiers presumably) but in T1-T4 soup queue I can tell you that there are LOTS of other weapons present, including streak boats, MP boats (waves hand), machine guns, LRMS, and even to my shock lots of ATMs (despite the dastardly caldron having nerffed them). Thee most prevalent and consistently dominant builds I am seeing, and this was true before April as well, are the combined UAC5/UAC10 builds. Plenty of AC20 and LBX10 builds too, but not as prevalent or as dominant as the uac spam boats.

I deny that the caldron has "screwed up". To be more clear: I do believe some of their changes past and proposed (last time I checked they had no planned buffs to non-hero Quickdraws, which imho is a travesty) have been over done or ill advised, but the vast majority of them have been a net positive on my gaming experience.

I am not sure, but I think I actually agree that mid/long range laser vomit builds have possibly replaced ATM Veagles, to the extent that where you used to see 1-3 Veagles in many matches, you might now see 1-3 mid/range laser vomit mechs being just as effectively, but even this is hard to concede as many ATM Veagles used to put up pretty consistently big numbers and I certainly am not seeing that from mid/long range laser vomit builds; at all.

Finally, that match you had. Wow. I get drooly just thinking about it. I shan't deny that it occurred, but can only hope it will happen to me.

Edited by Bud Crue, 29 July 2021 - 04:31 AM.

[R Valentine]

MW Waldorf Statler, on 29 July 2021 - 01:50 AM, said:

so by a 8 vs 8 or 2 vs 2 and Team 1 has 2 Veterans and Team 2 have 2 Morons the matchs longer and better?

Guess you didn't actually bother reading my post before quoting it.

[1453 R]

It's worth noting, much as a few people are ignoring it, that monthly events have a huge impact on what people play. There's currently two brand new chassis variants in play that both strongly favor laservomit/Gaussvomit, and a challenge for those two chassis to score a bunch of free loot including precious extra Schmeckbays. You're gonna see more beam spam when the challenge is telling you to run beam spam 'Mechs.

Back when the challenge was using medium beamers and SRMs to unlock light 'Mechs? You saw a lot more SRMs, a lot more fast ML boats, and at least thirty percent more light 'Mechs per match. The Speed of Light event changed what people were playing in a serious way. We're currently in the back half of the Beach Baggies event, which wants raw match damage, so you're seeing a lot of Big Alphalfa Mad Blasty Numbers 'Mechs designed to try and maximize match damage. Normally this would be Missile Heaven, but the prevalence of ECM has scared people off lock weapons so they run fat alphalfa numbers instead.

I see metric nut-tons of Ultra spam, the Two-Pair Muck-Tew never went anywhere. A lot of folks run their shiny new Whale-Charlies with autocannon spam even if that's not a great loadout for them. I still see plenty of RAC Atac, very rare I go a match without being pestered by some Plantsmakker bastid with rotaries. Admittedly I'm deep down here at the derp end of the pool where people play what's amusing and not what's good, but still. I see too many people aping Grimmechs builds (poorly, might I add) to believe for a second that 'The Meta' doesn't stick its scaly fingers down in T5, too.

Hell, just yesterday I found some knob running the GrimMechs dual Goosewaffle Veagle without bothering to maintain adequate distance between himself and the fight. I was in a dagger fighter Black Lanner patterned on the GrimMechs cSPL/cERUL Brawl fit, save I know that a dagger fighter needs'a dagger fight. Ripped his Goose arm off in the first two minutes of the match; had to sprint away after that, but I'd cut his firepower in half. Found him again 'bout three minutes later, ripped off his other Goose because he kept putting himself in places where a dagger-rogue Black Lanner could get at him and I knew exactly what he was driving and where he kept his stuff. Teach that goober to run meta and not be good at it. Hueh.

[Saved By The Bell]

Everybody, who tired from MO, take MechWarrior Mercenaries 4 and complete Overlord mission in elite mode. This crazy mission will take many stress and hours from your life.

[Leone]

But we have Mechwarrior 5 and the glorious missions available there-in...

~Leone.

[B0oN]

Leone, on 29 July 2021 - 12:15 PM, said:

But we have Mechwarrior 5 and the glorious missions available there-in...

~Leone.

Oh you

[Wildstreak]

Gas Guzzler, on 27 July 2021 - 10:44 AM, said:

That wasn't my experience. MechWarrior 5 is nowhere near as hard as Halo on Legendary, or even Heroic difficulty, for example. I mean people have always searched out ways to make games easier. Back in the day, they were called "cheats". Now they are called "mods". Really speaks to the reality of entitlement culture.

Then you really did not look at the game when you played it if you just breezed through, some people do that.
FWIW I do not use mods of MW5 for reasons including getting an honest assessment of the game in vanilla state.

Biggerfish, on 28 July 2021 - 06:42 PM, said:

Lets be honest, if you're any sort of decent MWO player you can burn through MW5.

Especially with the limitless range ac's. If you have trouble with MW5, MWO is going to be a rough place for you.

Let's be honest, you did not check certain things before posting this. Your statement implies I joined this game later than you.
I have actually played MWO longer than you and over that long period of time have been an average player.
Not trash, not top, average though no one can actually tell anyone's true stats anymore.
So yes I am a decent player, I had to stop playing in 2017 for 3 years due to technical reason and in the past 7 months since finding it worked again, "By FM," as we said in a Army I rarely play thus whatever recent stats I have are irrelevant since I do not play as often and the system is broken in several ways.

MW5 does not have limitless range ACs unless you are using a mod.
I use no mods to get an honest assessment of MW5 for reasons.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Scout Derek, on 29 July 2021 - 02:44 AM, said:

If you don't wanna play PVP against potentially better or worse opponents, I suggest you should find a PVE game instead. I heard Mechwarrior 5 is a great experience for PVE.

my question has a little sarcastic as Base hard to find
Yes im read it and the Base of Argumentation was false ...you see it in other Games with for example 4 Koop/teams , one Moron in it and you lost when you not plays like in Godmode or a you a Elite Player.Its more the narcisstic Logic of Non_teamplayers, thats seeing in ALL Mates a Ballast and holds alone the frontline against a Army in Avenger Mode.Reduce the Number of Players and each fail of a Player or less skill has Dramatic influences for the Team when you not lives in the irreal Elite Player Bubble,.

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 30 July 2021 - 08:31 PM.

[Scout Derek]

MW Waldorf Statler, on 30 July 2021 - 08:15 PM, said:

my question has a little sarcastic as Base hard to find
Yes im read it and the Base of Argumentation was false ...you see it in other Games with for example 4 Koop/teams , one Moron in it and you lost when you not plays like in Godmode or a you a Elite Player.Its more the narcisstic Logic of Non_teamplayers, thats seeing in ALL Mates a Ballast and holds alone the frontline against a Army in Avenger Mode.Reduce the Number of Players and each fail of a Player or less skill has Dramatic influences for the Team when you not lives in the irreal Elite Player Bubble,.

It's alright if you don't want to admit your wall of text had no sarcasm in it, because, no one is going to read that and go "This guy is being sarcastic! haha funny joke!"

Anyways, It's really hard to understand what you're saying, but I guess you're trying to compare other games with smaller pvp team sizes? So, I'll echo what I said before;

Quote

If you don't wanna play PVP against potentially better or worse opponents, I suggest you should find a PVE game instead. I heard Mechwarrior 5 is a great experience for PVE.

[Dogstar]

Scout Derek, on 31 July 2021 - 09:05 AM, said:

[color=#959595]If you don't wanna play PVP against potentially better or worse opponents, I suggest you should find a PVE game instead. I heard Mechwarrior 5 is a great experience for PVE.[/color]

The thing is people don't mind overly much playing against better/worse opponents - so you're argument is a bit of a strawman.

What people really object to is playing against radically better opponents who outclass them totally - nobody enjoys being beaten hands down again and again. That's what killed team/faction play for solo players.

Nor do they enjoy having someone on their team who is such a poor player that they negatively impact the game. e.g. PKers

Edited by Dogstar, 31 July 2021 - 09:42 AM.

[Leone]

Dogstar, on 31 July 2021 - 09:41 AM, said:

The thing is people don't mind overly much playing against better/worse opponents - so you're argument is a bit of a strawman.

If this were true we wouldn't have nearly the amount of whining we do in these threads.

~Leone

[Dogstar]

Leone, on 31 July 2021 - 09:52 AM, said:

If this were true we wouldn't have nearly the amount of whining we do in these threads.

~Leone

Whiners gonna whine no matter what you do

[D A T A]

what?

[Gas Guzzler]

Wildstreak, on 29 July 2021 - 04:40 PM, said:

Then you really did not look at the game when you played it if you just breezed through, some people do that.
FWIW I do not use mods of MW5 for reasons including getting an honest assessment of the game in vanilla state.

What does breezed through mean?

I played the game all the way through the campaign. Then I played it again in career mode and have got to year 3080 or something and have played through countless Rep15 missions. My evaluation stands. Nowhere near Halo on Legendary or even Heroic. You can't just tell me my experience is invalid, and anyone who doesn't like losing in a PvP game can go live out their BT fantasy in MechWarrior 5.

[HauptmanT]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 August 2021 - 10:36 AM, said:

What does breezed through mean?

Skimmed past.
Went through on autopilot.
Didnt really pay attention.
Was too easy.

Pick whichever most aptly fits the topic at hand.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Scout Derek, on 31 July 2021 - 09:05 AM, said:

It's alright if you don't want to admit your wall of text had no sarcasm in it, because, no one is going to read that and go "This guy is being sarcastic! haha funny joke!"

Anyways, It's really hard to understand what you're saying, but I guess you're trying to compare other games with smaller pvp team sizes? So, I'll echo what I said before;

its nonsense ...in a 2vs2 or 4vs 4 with big Skillgap both Teams frustrated ,seeing by CoD ...
its give the poor whining snowflakes, thats not have the Skill to learn and adapt ,lost in each Way of Fight ,the players thats have the experience to learn and adapt to becomes better,the skillfull players thats started as the Player before ,and the God Players 1 :Good Tactical awarness and Teamplay Skill or 2:Not Teamplayer -thats often use glitches and Cheats for her own Glorious Skillbubble.

[Bud Crue]

MW Waldorf Statler, on 03 August 2021 - 09:16 PM, said:

its nonsense ...in a 2vs2 or 4vs 4 with big Skillgap both Teams frustrated ,seeing by CoD ...
its give the poor whining snowflakes, thats not have the Skill to learn and adapt ,lost in each Way of Fight ,the players thats have the experience to learn and adapt to becomes better,the skillfull players thats started as the Player before ,and the God Players 1 :Good Tactical awarness and Teamplay Skill or 2:Not Teamplayer -thats often use glitches and Cheats for her own Glorious Skillbubble.

What in the name of google translate is being said here?

[pbiggz]

technopredator, on 04 August 2021 - 09:36 AM, said:

[Redacted]

[Redacted] here, https://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab you can create a good build just like everybody else, easy and fast, so you can enjoy the game; and remember, if you can shoot them, so they can, so flank them, it means go on the sides. Have fun

Don't lead him astray.

https://mech.nav-alpha.com/ is much better.

Edited by Armchair General, 05 August 2021 - 08:01 AM.
quote cleanup

[Wildstreak]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 August 2021 - 10:36 AM, said:

What does breezed through mean?

This below.

HauptmanT, on 03 August 2021 - 01:27 PM, said:

Skimmed past.
Went through on autopilot.
Didnt really pay attention.
Was too easy.

Pick whichever most aptly fits the topic at hand.

Your post gave me the impression you played without really 'looking at what is going on under the hood.'
Like probably a number of people, you played Campaign and Career mode probably from when you got the game.

Me, I ignored them at first and started with Instant Action treating it like a Beta test. From seeing videos before buying, I was generally curious of the details of what was happening and wanted to see what changes were done from MWO.
Some are good, some are horrible.
I admit to having been tempted to start a topic for MWO players who did not get MW5 describing the differences just to see what would happen if MW5 changes were the standard for MWO.
For example, imagine the comp players trying to run Mechs with meta weapons being MGs, Flamers, quad-Gauss, maybe some Energy snipers.

[Lousyten]

Isn't this MW5 sub-discussion about the game being easier than MWO? And it is much easier. Whether you 'breezed through' or not doesn't change that.

Wildstreak, on 04 August 2021 - 10:37 AM, said:

imagine the comp players trying to run Mechs with meta weapons being MGs, Flamers, quad-Gauss, maybe some Energy snipers.

And the point is...?