117 replies to this topic

[Vellron2005]

So, are LRMs gonna get a weapons pass / buffs?

If I may suggest some lock-on buffs, or better lock holding.. that would be nice.. Right now, LRMs are useless above 500-ish meters when it comes to getting your own locks.. even in LOS..

[D V Devnull]

Vellron2005, on 30 July 2021 - 10:05 AM, said:

So, are LRMs gonna get a weapons pass / buffs?

If I may suggest some lock-on buffs, or better lock holding.. that would be nice.. Right now, LRMs are useless above 500-ish meters when it comes to getting your own locks.. even in LOS..

500 Meters? More like useless beyond 400 Meters, and completely useless when your Team simply will not work with you at all!!! They're no longer LRMs in nature. And ATMs are junk for IDF now, as well as junk even with LoS to the target. Neither come anywhere close to being capable of competing with Ballistics/Energy without over-investment in both the FirePower & Sensors & Auxiliary Trees to the extent of ignoring too much else. Even then, Spread is a total nightmare that can not be overcome even with the Missile Spread Nodes, and the Non-Artemis launchers are totally devalued in the current game state. Without both Artemis & Missile Spread Nodes, and LoS, there is just no making enough Missiles hit to be reasonable anymore. Lock Angle is total trash, particularly for anyone who can not hold perfectly steady on the Target, and it's impossible to maintain a Lock when having to Torso Twist to make Armor last longer against the Enemy firing at someone. Lock Time is utterly atrocious beyond belief, even at point-blank range, as it takes far too long to achieve a Lock at all. Those blasted Lock Times should be less than 1 second for LoS @ 250 Meters, and no more than 8.5 Seconds for IDF @ 850 Meters against an Enemy ECM causing issues. I literally can no longer run LRMs/ATMs these days in order to be a Support to a Team, and that has severely reduced my number of games played, along with forcing me to have to leave the MatchMaker Queue short an extra person when I would rather not. Not everyone who has physical personal issues can tell their body to stop arguing with them, and losing most Lock-On Missiles as options is definitely destructive to my sense of player engagement. Heck, I'm even getting pushed too far, and being exhausted when trying to use Streaks... Not fun!!!

~D. V. "Geez, Vellron2005... Now I'm a fresh heap of salt from remembering about this Lock-On insanity!" Devnull

[HauptmanT]

Vellron2005, on 30 July 2021 - 10:05 AM, said:

So, are LRMs gonna get a weapons pass / buffs?

If I may suggest some lock-on buffs, or better lock holding.. that would be nice.. Right now, LRMs are useless above 500-ish meters when it comes to getting your own locks.. even in LOS..

I quite feel LRMs are good. I use them a lot and am usually quite pleased.
They take sensor skill investment. That is a must. You cannot skimp on those skill nodes. This helps offset the added armor you could have got, by still being useful while not taking return fire.
You can fire them from cover, so can be countered with AMS. Good balance there.
They are almost useless on a murderball, where everyone's AMS is firing, so you need to adjust your target, find the stragglers, much like a light mech must do.

Play them smart, and you'll get consistent 1000dmg games (well, more consistent as sheet happens).

ATMs I see as completely useless. They only hinder max damage in all but that tiniest of range window. Not worth losing the ability to toss them out at long ranges as early damage or suppression. I'd take LRMs for the tonnage any day, unless they were more like MRMs. 3 damage unguided rockets. Or even 2 damage at all ranges as they guide now.

Edited by HauptmanT, 30 July 2021 - 11:26 AM.

[Thorqemada]

Watching a recent stream where a guy used LRM and its easy to get oposite impressions of it.

The Streamer mentioned that he had no issues to get Locks rather quick:
Yeah, he got lock rather quick - when he got the Lock at all and you feel that 3 to 4 seconds is quick...
In 3 to 4 seconds a PPFLD or Laservomit Mech comes out of cover, unloads all his Weapons, twists damage and is back in cover while the Lurmer has achieved nothing so far.

Then he also mourned that his team would not press R what means he did not get enough Mech to lock on.

He also cursed the lock on for taking to long.

Then he also showed everything that is wrong with lurming as his playstyle was a parasitic no armor sharing non supressing playstyle totaly depending on the team to take the brunt so he could have his individual parasitic sucess that he boasted about at the end of the match while blaming his team for losing.

Yeah, he did much damage and killed some Mechs but it was bcs he lasted longer than his teammates at the front.

And then after the match he said, he would not know why the people think LRM are in a bad state or Locks are troublesome...

Quite contradicting i guess...

###

And it also shows why the override mechanic is crap.
Once gain he blew himself up - he has even a catchphrase for that.

I have sympathie when you face a team that is toxic and harrassing so you take your little revenge by going out of bounds or override yourself to death.

But in a legit game it is unsportsmanlike and on top it is a weak game mechanic also.

Imo Override should not prevent you from taking damage when bringing your Mech over your heat limits but it should not allow you to suicide!

Instead BB should say:
Calculated heat damage exceeds survuval limitations
Fall Back Saveguard activated
Override disabled
Shutdown initiated

No more override suicides!

Edited by Thorqemada, 30 July 2021 - 02:08 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

LRM and ATM seem quite fine now to me.

In that they are not disgustingly obnoxious and fit I to everything else as reasonable/balanced.

[Ludo22]

Vellron2005, on 30 July 2021 - 10:05 AM, said:

So, are LRMs gonna get a weapons pass / buffs? If I may suggest some lock-on buffs, or better lock holding.. that would be nice.. Right now, LRMs are useless above 500-ish meters when it comes to getting your own locks.. even in LOS..

Thank goodness LRMs are useless at that range or the game would be frustrating beyond belief. I hate playing a mech without ECM because of the annoyance of LRMs. I do think they should do away with the minimum distance.

[D A T A]

LRMs need no buffs, thats 110% guaranteed

https://youtu.be/5TmFVEU4AFk?t=170

Edited by D A T A, 30 July 2021 - 03:44 PM.

[pattonesque]

D A T A, on 30 July 2021 - 03:20 PM, said:

LRMs need no buffs, thats 110% guaranteed

https://youtu.be/5TmFVEU4AFk?t=170

people sleep on that thing's velocity buffs, it's a real monster when folks support it

[HenryFA]

LRM is pretty good, especially on IS mechs that have massive quirks(looking at you AWS-8R)

The new mechs with ECM definitely is a nerf to parasite LRMers, which is a good thing

[w0qj]

LRM is doing very well:

Catapult: 2xArtemis-LRM15 + 4x MPL
Archer Tempest: 2x Artemis-LRM15 + 6x MPL
Marauder MAD-4HP: LRM100, or Artemis-LRM90 depending on your tastes

All are very viable!

In fact, MAD-4HP is my go-to mech for Event Missile damage

- - - - - - - - - - - -
Clan ATM is another matter; indirect fire ATM is now frustrating to the point of not being used for indirect fire.
So Clan ATM used with direct fire is somewhat analogous to IS MRM, but MRM is superior (albeit unguided missiles).

I've noticed that Mad Dog are used much less nowadays after the ATM nerf (April-2021 Weapons/Equipment Pass #1). In fact, Mad Dog are now used as SRM missile boat much more nowadays, if they show up at all.

But I still want my MDD-Prime(I) !

Edited by w0qj, 31 July 2021 - 06:49 AM.

[Heavy Money]

LRMs are very impressive when:
- Used with support/team cohesion
- Used against bad players

LRMs are unimpressive when:
- Used against good players
- Used without support/team cohesion.

LRMs are basically irrelevant in quickplay in higher tiers unless used by a coordinated group, but are effective when used by noobs against noobs. If you want to play LRMs and didn't bring a group who will support it, they are crap.

So basically, they can't ever be improved on average without breaking them in one bracket or another. Which means they'll remain a tilted weapon that is simultaneously whined about by part of the player base (t5) and isn't really used by other parts (t1 except groups.)

This isn't really a fun or ideal situation. It'd be nice if LRMs could be changed in some way that'd even this out and make them more viable unsupported and against skilled players, without making them more powerful in the other areas. IE, raise skill ceiling but also skill floor.

[Moldur]

LRMs are inherently inconsistent in QP. That we have a "LRMS are OP" or "LRMs need buff" thread every few months since the inception of MWO just tells me that they're in an ok place. I'd love to have them be more consistent without being too powerful, but I can't think of an elegant solution.

[JediPanther]

Vellron2005, on 30 July 2021 - 10:05 AM, said:

So, are LRMs gonna get a weapons pass / buffs?

If I may suggest some lock-on buffs, or better lock holding.. that would be nice.. Right now, LRMs are useless above 500-ish meters when it comes to getting your own locks.. even in LOS..

Do you tag? c4 Has near 850m range tag. If I had $1 for every lrm mech not using tag I could buy out EA,Disney and Viacom all on the same day and have enough money left over to still afford my own private island and go full on Cobra Island making it my own little country. Are you one of those "plz hold locks" lrm only players that give the rest of the lrm-ers who get their own locks a bad rep?

Invest in sensors for target decay and retention and sensor range then equip c/bap,your choice of tc mk1-7 and a tag. Makes getting locks so easy. Add that to a mech with a range quirk and those lrm start to hit 1100m or more with 8-900m los.

[EightBitKnight]

I think the LRMs are in an ok place but i do agree that for some mechs and lets be honest players getting locks can be harder then others. What about some quarks for the more missile focused variants that could help speed up locking? nothing crazy but with the sheer amount of ECM these days it would be nice. Maybe something that works only with LOS instead of IDF? or something to extend tag or help it cut through high ECM?

Edited by EightBitKnight, 31 July 2021 - 08:54 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

JediPanther, on 31 July 2021 - 07:36 AM, said:

Do you tag? c4 Has near 850m range tag. If I had $1 for every lrm mech not using tag I could buy out EA,Disney and Viacom all on the same day and have enough money left over to still afford my own private island and go full on Cobra Island making it my own little country. Are you one of those "plz hold locks" lrm only players that give the rest of the lrm-ers who get their own locks a bad rep?

Invest in sensors for target decay and retention and sensor range then equip c/bap,your choice of tc mk1-7 and a tag. Makes getting locks so easy. Add that to a mech with a range quirk and those lrm start to hit 1100m or more with 8-900m los.

he can't tag, don't even bother. tag requires LOS, and that ..
yeah.

[Commoners]

LRMboat players who invalidate themselves and are useless every time they drop are in the same boat as shadowcat, black lanner, and stealth flea players who think they're playing metal gear solid when they accidentally launched mwo instead so they don't actually do anything except play hide and seek until it's 12:1 and then die ignobly after accomplishing nothing of note.

They're extremely effective when the pilot in the mech uses them to their fullest capabilities.

[EightBitKnight]

DrtyDshSoap, on 31 July 2021 - 12:08 PM, said:

[Redacted]

I share the same opinion about people who insult others and add nothing to the discussion ������. If you're just here insult people don't waste my time or yours. no one here cares about your whining, we're here to think of ways to make Lrms better for those who like them, don't like, don't comment. Think there fine say so nicely.

Edited by Armchair General, 31 July 2021 - 11:18 PM.
quote cleanup

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

RIght at the moment I'd say LRMs are probably underperforming a bit but that isn't due to their stats and more that we just had a variant pack release of two very popular omni-mechs and both of them bring ECM to the chassis. With that much ECM out there of course a weapon system that gets countered by ECM is going to find it a bit harder, but being far more proactive and using LRMs directly would counter this.

[FinnMcKool]

as some one who uses LRMs

I personally think they are just fine at the moment , but every thing is in flux I understand ,

I also like to play the anti Lrm (AMS and ECM) mechs

and even hunt them some times , so anyway I think I understand the Give and Take with them

[Dogstar]

D A T A, on 30 July 2021 - 03:20 PM, said:

LRMs need no buffs, thats 110% guaranteed

https://youtu.be/5TmFVEU4AFk?t=170

So in a comp match, where you were fully supported by your team, in a max LRM80 build with no tag, no BAP, a build that would suck in QP, you did a ton of damage, and you're going to cherry pick that as a reason LRMs are fine?

Whoop-de-frickin-do...

Perception bias much? If we used that video alone as evidence we could say that you've been carried to tier 1.

justcallme A S H, on 30 July 2021 - 03:10 PM, said:

LRM and ATM seem quite fine now to me.

In that they are not disgustingly obnoxious and fit I to everything else as reasonable/balanced.

No one is asking for damage buffs, the damage output is in a good place, but it's the lock-on mechanics that are unfun, and the same applies to streaks too.

Edited by Dogstar, 01 August 2021 - 01:12 AM.