35 replies to this topic

[Scout Derek]

It's a video game with fictional big stompy robots with fictional armor, fictional weapons, fictional ships, and fictional technology.

I think making sense in terms of real world is the last thing you'd probably see in this game.

[LordNothing]

real world tech is op, pls nerf.

generally the 10 class has always been the most solid ballistics class. so it dont need no buffs. good stopping power at typical engagement ranges. good cool down cadence syncs up well with the amount of time it takes to hill hump. the 2 and 5 (including racs) need face time and the 20 needs to be in brawling range. so the 10 is really the only practical trading autocannon class in the game. i mean you can boat the 5s and trade and you can trade with the 20 at short ranges, but then 10 you can pick a hill and hit stuff.

the is lb-10 is also the only lb that really makes sense. if all the is lb autos had a -1 ton advantage over their solid shell bretheren, they might get more use. been trying to use lb-5s but they still feel anemic. having a 5-ton lb-2 would help is ballistic lights somewhat. for the lb20, i think a -1 ton buff would make up for some of the std engine requirement, though i think the lb20 is a lot more useful in a brawl than the uac20 for its crit seeking ability, while encouraging you to delay brawling till the late game. clan side is problematic though, with all gun types being the same weight its hard to maintain balance across a single size class (uacs have damage and cacs run cool, idk what clan lbs are good for, except the 20, which is still up to par in a brawl).

Edited by LordNothing, 21 August 2021 - 05:57 PM.

[FupDup]

I'd kinda just like for all weapons to have 200 damage per ton of ammo at minimum.

[Scout Derek]

technopredator, on 21 August 2021 - 08:29 PM, said:

I never wrote it was, you completely missed the point

You mean the part where you talked about

technopredator, on 21 August 2021 - 02:18 PM, said:

so at the very least, should have an improvement in technnology

Or

technopredator, on 21 August 2021 - 02:18 PM, said:

The logic is that big ammo will be build with less metal and more room for explosives: the bullet propulsion and the explosive head, so yeah, less weight, so more bullets

Is not applying real world sense then?



I think it's time to head out folks, we've got a live one here.

[Curccu]

If no one understands your posts and everyone miss your point, maybe edit post?

LB10x has pretty good ammo/ton actually on split 3rd best position on ballistics overall, just behind rotarys.

[justcallme A S H]

LBXs already have great ammo ratio... They don't need more.

[justcallme A S H]

Just because you explained your view doesn't mean it is correct and nor does it mean it is balanced gameplay.

What you have put forward, the massive buffs, would completely unbalance things as you'd need 1-1.5T max vs 2-2.5T now. When loading up 3-4 Ballistic being able to save 3T+ is massive, absolutely massive. You have failed to not only comment on it, it seems you don't even realise it exists.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 22 August 2021 - 12:13 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

technopredator, on 21 August 2021 - 02:18 PM, said:

Same thing for the AC20-Types: ammo is 8/T and 4/0.5T, It's A Joke, it should be at least 2x: 16/T and 8/0.5T,

You words...

Perhaps next time before you tell me to shut up, at the very least, remember what you've posted. You can't expect to be taken seriously if you can't even remember what you've posted a few hours earlier.


Such ammo changes would grossly unbalanced the game as I said.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 22 August 2021 - 01:50 AM.

[Armchair General]

justcallme A S H, on 22 August 2021 - 12:12 AM, said:

What you have put forward, the massive buffs, would completely unbalance things as you'd need 1-1.5T max vs 2-2.5T now. When loading up 3-4 Ballistic being able to save 3T+ is massive, absolutely massive. You have failed to not only comment on it, it seems you don't even realise it exists.

technopredator, on 22 August 2021 - 01:44 AM, said:

Not necessarily, no, but in this case, it does, necessarily. It's not a massive buff, you're just exaggerating my suggestion so it's never made, you're wrong on your numbers, completely, stop posting BS. The changes I proposed, will give an extra current ton, every 8 tones of ammo, that's +12% increase.

Just to make sure that each others points are coming through:
My understanding is that ASH was talking about AC-20 ammo
increases which would be 100% as proposed by technopredator in his first post
while technopredator was talking about LB-10X ammo increase which would be around 13% as mentioned in his first post.

technopredator, on 21 August 2021 - 11:48 PM, said:

OK kid, go play with your toys now, it's OK

Please do not use this kind of derogatory language ever again.

[justcallme A S H]

I use AC20s all the time. Especially as they have received recent buffs they are in quie a good place right now and not 'underpowed' as you're claiming, actually play some games and check them out.

I think overall you've put your heart into an idea and everyone is mostly disagreeing and you're basically just upset about it. It's ok to be wrong ok something and it's also OK to open your mind to better understanding of the game at the same time when people are pointing out why.

[Curccu]

technopredator, on 21 August 2021 - 11:48 PM, said:

Now I know why some posts are ignored. No, my post clear and well written for people that bothers to use their minds and are not egomaniacs, thinking their random rambling is so interesting. Obviously I don't think so and I explained why, which you didn't cared to read much neither. Why people even answer if they're not even understanding?

Understanding and agreeing with you isn't same thing.
And again if no one has understood and agreed with you there is a slight chance you might be mistaken here.

[Curccu]

technopredator, on 22 August 2021 - 03:52 AM, said:

AC20s would be the natural successor of the AC10s, how come a successor is worse than it's predecessor? make no sense

Bigger is always better? I'm pretty sure AC20 is more used now than AC10 because SNNPPC combo.

[Curccu]

technopredator, on 22 August 2021 - 04:19 AM, said:

10 types should be better than 2 and 5 and 20 better than 10, at least in ammo

Why? Why they should be better?

technopredator, on 22 August 2021 - 04:19 AM, said:

currently the weps themselves are OK, but ammo wise they're unbalanced, I have repeated this several times, maybe now you'll get it why I made the suggestion you refuse to undertand

Again refuse to agree with you and refuse to understand is not same thing.

technopredator, on 22 August 2021 - 04:19 AM, said:

No, it's you the one wrong, a typical conformist that doesn't want nay progress, because it'd disturb something you're used to, and you're set yourself to "protect" your egocentric personal world and worldview; I advice you to follow your own advice.

I have played since closed beta through every change and adapted and embraced with every new thing given to us by PGI was it good or bad, used gauss since dual gauss catapult was the thing, kept using it when charge came and loads of potatoes quit the game cause gauss was ruined and "unplayable". Played comp at division A level from one of the 1st if not 1st Rhods to the point Russ said they will no longer develope this game.
So I don't think there is any way possible for u to be more wrong about this topic.

technopredator, on 22 August 2021 - 04:19 AM, said:

This is not the case, my points is very well justified

IN YOUR OPINION.

technopredator, on 22 August 2021 - 04:19 AM, said:

That you're sure of something, it's not necessarily true, unless you have server statistical side from every active player and what 'mechs they use with which weps

Yeah thats why I wrote "pretty sure" instead of stating it as a fact. Just what me and my friends have witnessed while playing the game. Have you seen more AC10 used that AC20 while playing the game?

[justcallme A S H]

technopredator, on 22 August 2021 - 04:19 AM, said:

I have, they sucked, I stop using them a long time ago, they're underpowered on the ammo, as I have clearly demonstrated.

They were only buffed recently though and you haven't really played since Nov '20.

You have definitely demonstrated something but it isn't what you think. It's that you haven't even used the weapon you're purporting to want to propose balance ideas for. That's pretty ridiculous.

technopredator, on 22 August 2021 - 04:19 AM, said:

No, it's you the one wrong, a typical conformist that doesn't want nay progress, because it'd disturb something you're used to, and you're set yourself to "protect" your egocentric personal world and worldview; I advice you to follow your own advice.

Conformist?

I'm part of the Cauldron group that so far has been responsibile for over 1,000 changes in the last 4 months.

That right there is the very definition of progress. You just keep displaying how little you understand what you're talking about with each subsequent post.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 22 August 2021 - 06:21 AM.

[w0qj]

[Edit]Justcallme ASH just posted, but I'll post mine because it's been written-up already... but who am I to talk, when senior Cauldron member had just spoken [/Edit]

Just gonna concentrate on OP's ammo/ton for LB 10X-AC aspect.

I've been playing extensively with LB 10X-AC for both IS and Clan since End-July-2021 (launch of the ECM...cough...Dire Whale... Warden Booster Pack)... and I can say that LB 10X-AC is in a good place, for both IS and Clan!

LB 10X-AC on Warhammer, Cyclops, Mauler, Fafnir, Atlas, etc.
Clan LB 10X-AC on Dire Wolf, Timber Wolf, Mad Cat II, etc.

Some comments:
1) Game balance: LB 10X-AC with "enough" ammo is so heavy that you are left with just a few small lasers (or the like) as backup weapons, for both IS and Clan sides. Or just go full monty and use only LB 10X-AC, lots of ammo, and no backup lasers. Good luck when you run out ammo! That's the beauty of Battle Tech game balance; the user mech weapon design tension between full ballistic vs ballistic with backup lasers!

The amount ammo for LB 10X-AC feels about right (basically I have to fill almost the entire mech with this ammo to have enough, hence I'm left with only small lasers as backup weapons. And not enough weight for DHS heat sinks! Wait... I'm putting in lasers with no DHS? Swap out LB 10X-AC ammo for DHS?? etc.).

~If one really must add more LB 10X-AC ammo per ton, I would suggest maximum +10% ammo per ton for LB-10X-AC, ie: bump up to new value of 25ammo/ton (up from present 23ammo/ton).

~The point is, if LB 10X-AC ammo/ton is too high (say extreme case of 1,000ammo/ton), then folks can start fielding Large Pulse Lasers and LB 10X-AC (gasp)! Obvious something is seriously broken if this happens.

- - - - - - - - - -
Therefore:
1) I can say that LB 10X-AC is in a good place, for both IS and Clan!

2) As an end-user of LB 10X-AC,
~If one really must add more LB 10X-AC ammo per ton, I myself would love to see a +10% ammo per ton for LB-10X-AC, ie: bump up to new value of 25ammo/ton (up from present 23ammo/ton). But game balance must be paramount!

Edited by w0qj, 22 August 2021 - 06:57 AM.

[CFC Conky]

Hello all,

I don’t know if the OP is referring to QP or FW. In my experience, I rarely run out of LB10-X ammunition in a QP match, taking as a rule-of-thumb two tons of ammunition per gun, especially if I have the ammo nodes activated in the skill tree. QP matches, whatever the map/mode just don’t last that long. If I carry three or more shotguns on a mech, I can afford to take less ammunition per gun because I am putting out more damage per click (provided I don’t miss ).

In my opinion, if one is not getting good damage numbers from the LB10, they are either missing their shots or firing at too long a range so pellets miss due to spread. Bumping up the ammo by 13% won’t make up for that, again, in my opinion.

Oh, and if you are getting killed quickly because of bad positioning/better opponents/sub-par team performance/bad luck, no amount of ammunition is going to fix that.

Happens to me all the time…

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 22 August 2021 - 08:58 AM.

[Elizander]

.

technopredator, on 21 August 2021 - 02:18 PM, said:

Something that make sense, you know?

Someone is gonna have to explain to me how my mech has 1,600 missiles in it and how it goes from the left foot all the way to my mech's right arm then.

[CFC Conky]

Elizander, on 22 August 2021 - 09:12 AM, said:

.

Someone is gonna have to explain to me how my mech has 1,600 missiles in it and how it goes from the left foot all the way to my mech's right arm then.

[Curccu]

technopredator, on 22 August 2021 - 04:19 AM, said:

10 types should be better than 2 and 5 and 20 better than 10, at least in ammo

curccu said:

Why? Why they should be better?

technopredator, on 22 August 2021 - 05:16 AM, said:

Because that's the very reason to develop a new weapon, it's called progress.
https://www.dictiona...rowse/progress:
noun:
1. a movement toward a goal or to a further or higher stage.
3. advancement in general.
4. growth or development; continuous improvement.
verb:
11. to grow or develop, as in complexity, scope, or severity; advance.

I hope is clear now.

Nope not clear, not even close.
Again you are mixing some real world crap (and not even getting that correct) and game mechanics & balance.
AC20 just shouldn't be superior to other ACs on every aspect it already has the best one hit damage and DPS of the AC family

technopredator, on 22 August 2021 - 04:19 AM, said:

No, I'm right as a matter of fact, as clearly stated in my 1st post; you want me to be only my opinion. That's the beauty of facts and numbers, they describe reality.
I'm not wrong, my probabilities that people stop acting like toddlers and making tantrums, and that developers see the facts and agree to make corrections, is slim to none, you're confusing the terms. At least I tried, to make sense of the things I don't see as good for this game. My total game time must be around 2 years, a few hours a day; but still these points always bothered me, so I finally had enough and I came to try to make a post, for great justice

Silly you this isn't some math equation, this is game balance numbers and you cannot state your opinion as a fact specially when you are not that awesome player at least according to leaderboards.

[SPNKRGrenth]

I just want to see ammo counts touched up so that half-tons never lose out on a shot. Preferably also bumping up ammo counts so they all provide close to 200 damage potential per ton. Heavy Gauss comes to mind as a prime example. 5 shots per ton, only 2 shots per half-ton, only 125 damage potential per ton. Clean that up so it's 6 shots a ton, 3 shots a half-ton, and it's so much better for mixing in half-tons without shooting yourself in the foot.

Of all the ACs to single out though, AC-10s (LB and Ultra as well) already have the highest damage potential of all the ACs by a lot.