107 replies to this topic

[Horseman]

InnerSphereNews, on 24 August 2021 - 12:44 PM, said:

Why have we done this?
We have decided to remove the Solaris Season Leaderboard rewards due to a few reasons:

• Solaris Mode is the least played mode in MWO with each season having a declining amount of players.
  
• We do not believe adding more rewards is the way to attract players back to the mode.

Adding rewards can work... if appropriately promoted and structured to keep users engaged for more than 48 hours. Which, unfortunately, is something you've been failing to figure out for three consecutive years.

Sorry, guys, but YOU have contributed to the decline in the player interest through poor structuring of the kick-off events, bungling up the season start timing (including bouts of genius such as starting the seasons in the middle of the week - I mean, SERIOUSLY?) and finally removing the kick-offs altogether so that most players don't even notice when the seasons start and end.

You have contributed to the decline in number of players when you stopped the season kick-off events. Had those been structured properly, you could have kept some user interest in the mode for more than 48 hours, but you've consistently failed to do so.
That's on you.

Solaris was consistently getting shafted both on lack of visibility and on excessive season length. Both of those are on you. When you engaged players in events that Reducing the seasons to a month and cutting back

Quote

What are we doing to fix this?</p>

• We don't have a solution in place yet, however we are still interested in finding a solution for Solaris mode.
  
• One possible solution has been the idea of an Event Queue with one Division at a time to reduce the # of the overall queues.

Any solution we pursue will be significant work and take place in the future.

You don't necessarily need to make it an event queue to do that - just set up a normal event that rewards activity in the specific Division and players will engage with that division. The gotcha is that you need to start it on a weekend, as otherwise you've got players who will be late to the party and only arrive when the mode is becoming a ghost town again (you should know that, you made that misstep before).
</p>

Edited by Horseman, 24 August 2021 - 09:21 PM.

[BabySusie]

I would play the mode a lot more if I could play with my MWO mechs. I cant get any new stuff in Solaris mode because of how little players play and barely anyone to fight and get stuff. I can imagine playing with my Annihilator

[Lepestok]

How much should I write. Make battles only on stock builds. And people will come to Solaris to have fun. And the idea of divisions will make sense.

When you have to fight against meta builds over and over again, it's never fun. At least as part of the experiment, remove the mehlab in Solaris-7 for one season.

In its current form, Solaris-7 was created for pro-players. And what did it lead to? Maybe it's time to think about players who just want to have fun, and not prove that they are the best?

Edited by Lepestok, 24 August 2021 - 10:13 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

If you make it stock only mechs.

1. A META will still evolve.
2. High skill players will still completely dominate.


Thus it's exactly the same as it is now and will remain unchanged in the core issues you raise.

[Lepestok]

justcallme A S H, on 24 August 2021 - 10:21 PM, said:

If you make it stock only mechs.

1. A META will still evolve.
2. High skill players will still completely dominate.


Thus it's exactly the same as it is now and will remain unchanged in the core issues you raise.

1) The problem of meta-stock-builds will be greatly smoothed out by the division system. And is there at least something comparable in power to a mech's from a mechlab among stock builds? In addition, there will not be a situation when, for example, a Mist Lynx-С with two medium lasers is in the 4th division together with a Banshee, a Battlemaster and a Marader IIC. And why? Because you can make a Mist Lynx-G out of a Mist Lynx-С.
2) Agree, there is a difference - to fight against a pro-player who has improved his mech for Solaris by 200% or to fight against a pro-player on a stock mech. At least you won't die in the first 5 seconds.

Edited by Lepestok, 24 August 2021 - 10:58 PM.

[Dregian Bloodwrath]

this is sad.. i did solaris for the season rewards it was a incentive for me a reason to push myself harder and do better so i could get better.. it was a reason to learn new tactics to improve... learning from solaris allowedme to carry over those lessons learned and do better in qp.. with no incentivetheres now no use for solaris why push urself to do better if u dont get rewarded for ur improvements. that said i do agree the solaris jocks is a dying breed.. removing the rewards even just temp maybe not a good idea it will kill solaris totally but it does need a revamp and a rework 8man ffa or even 3v3 can be added.. make it more mw4 style solaris

[Dregian Bloodwrath]

sorry makenzie i know ur a good pilot but i have to agree with john though those standing in a corner ac2 build especially the annies kinda detours ppl from playing solaris how do u get to a annie that never stops shooting at u .. although i have to give makenzie his due to as he has given me alot of tips to help me get better in solaris

John Bronco, on 24 August 2021 - 10:31 PM, said:

[Redacted]

Edited by Armchair General, 25 August 2021 - 11:14 AM.
quote cleanup

[justcallme A S H]

Lepestok, on 24 August 2021 - 10:56 PM, said:

2) Agree, there is a difference - to fight against a pro-player who has improved his mech for Solaris by 200% or to fight against a pro-player on a stock mech. At least you won't die in the first 5 seconds.

Given how little front amour most stock mechs have at times vs rear and without skills to further buff them you better believe you will absolutely be killed in the first 5 seconds given some stock mechs loadouts.

We saw this during stock worlds in 2018 that used stock mechs... Been there and done it all.

It would be a case of who is the best player in the best stock mech for the Div. I would almost go so far as to say there would be even LESS diversity per division as that is again what we saw during Stock-Mode World Champs in 2018 - the amount of viable chassis was less than if it was a free-mech lab.

[Elizander]

As I've stated before, you just need to add a dumb AI opponent for people to shoot in Solaris. Put way points in the map, make it walk around and give it a scaling time to acquire target + accuracy at higher difficulty. At max difficulty just make it torso twist between shots and you're golden.

[Reno Blade]

yrrot, on 24 August 2021 - 02:08 PM, said:

S7 has a lot of systems that are good, but the mode was designed for an audience that wasn't there. Plenty of folks in the community really just wanted a free for all mode that is reminiscent of MW4 multiplayer. MWO doesn't draw in the hyper-competitive crowd in the numbers to support all of the system S7 had in place (divisions, Elo rankings, etc). Like most F2P titles, it draws a larger casual base with a smaller contingent of competitive folks (probably a glance at WoT random battles vs clan wars population would have some insight...)

My proposal to &quot;fix&quot; solaris would be the following:

• Remove division-based match maker (keeping the division of the mechs, but letting cross-division matches happen, reduces from 14 buckets to 2--1v1 and 2v2 queue)
  
• Scale rewards up based on division and Elo separation between players (ie, spider vs MkII-B gets bigger rewards, unless spider is high Elo and madcat is low Elo). Of course more accolades for the spider pilot that wins, right?
  
• Add rewards (via events?? or dynamic interface like call to arms??) to encourage players to pick underplayed chassis/variants

Basic idea is to make S7 a fun mode where you can run kind of whatever you feel like and still get rewarded, even if you get a bad match. The rewards scaling would help reduce the &quot;top in division&quot; meta that exists in the current iteration and encourage good players to play worse mechs for better rewards. This streamlines matchmaking to scale better with lower population (you only need 2 players to kick off 1v1, regardless of what mechs they queue up with), while still allowing plenty of room for growth.

That is, unless FFA is on the table, then...do that.

This!

This is what ive suggested also long ago.

Any vs any with rewards scaling with difficulty of division/elo would be a very easy fix.
1 queue only
Rewards for everyone
Less hardcore top rank grind/farm/exploit for rewards
More fun because of randomness (because no divisions)

[Reno Blade]

See old post:

Reno Blade, on 05 May 2021 - 12:26 PM, said:

Coming from MPBT:Solaris7 and MPBT:3025 where you had 4vs4 matches, a big map with borders and had to earn your LP and rank to get access to bigger mechs.

I would change Factionplay and Solaris in this way:

Faction Play and Quick Play
- All Quick Play games are automatically Faction Play (4 respawns, with your selected mech), does only include QP game modes and is mixed IS and Clan on both sides
- All Faction Play games stay as they are with all modes and has IS vs IS, Clan vs Clan and IS vs Clan pure-tech teams
- Faction Play IS-Map meta includes scouting planets which decide which planet would be attacked next
- Faction Play matches would give more planetary % than QP games
- New: Most Valued Player bonus + bounty: the &quot;best&quot; player (could be different &quot;mission parameters&quot; such as dmg done/taken, defense, longest live...) would get bonus while he is the &quot;VIP&quot; and anyone that attacks/kills this player gets bonus.
- New: Faction Play Units can &quot;buy&quot; their own planet (after helping to defend/conquer it) and upgrade defenses with unit coffer or LP.


Solaris7
- All players are in 1 queue/bucket all the time
- Divisions are only used for caluclating risk and reward
- Reward of division difference increases by each division gap to your opponent (e.g. div2 vs div4 could be already 3x multiplier if you beat the better player, or 1/3 for the higher div player to beat the &quot;lower&quot; one)
- New: Challenge other players to a duel. This could also be broadcasted (as notification, or flagging the players in the queue for others to see and spectate)
- New: Betting on outcome. Spectators (or players for their own victory) could bet some CB/MC on the outcome of the match. Either victor, damage done/taken or time to kill. the closer you are to the outcome (e.g. 300dmg to 320dmg bet) the better is your reward
- Solaris Season events: Double bonus or multiplier increase on special day of the month.

[Tatze Tattmann]

lol i forgot to not comment this, and just stop playing mwo

Edited by Earl Walker, 25 August 2021 - 04:22 AM.

[Scout Derek]

Dregian Bloodwrath, on 25 August 2021 - 01:18 AM, said:

sorry makenzie i know ur a good pilot but i have to agree with john though those standing in a corner ac2 build especially the annies kinda detours ppl from playing solaris how do u get to a annie that never stops shooting at u .. although i have to give makenzie his due to as he has given me alot of tips to help me get better in solaris

The joke of it is when they get met with an actual person who knows how to play a brawl mech against ac2 spam they crumple apart and then never come back to the queue.

[OettingerRakete]

I managed to buy 4 meta mechs last week, exclusively to farm the rewards. Got punished right away
Can't be helped ....

Ty Earl Walker and friends!!

Edited by OettingerRakete, 25 August 2021 - 05:15 AM.

[Hellfire666]

So you know people abuse the system, most likely know who is abusing the system, and your great idea is to punish the few people who actually do play the game mode instead of punishing the obvious cheaters?

Damn PGI, you were doing so well until now.

[Dregian Bloodwrath]

Scout Derek, on 25 August 2021 - 05:07 AM, said:

The joke of it is when they get met with an actual person who knows how to play a brawl mech against ac2 spam they crumple apart and then never come back to the queue.

tru but how many of us can take on a ac2 build how many of us play solaris often enough to know what to do me u makenzie and maybe a hand full of others .. but for the guy going in for the 1st time and being obliterated ... its a deterrent doesnt matter how u look at it .. im also guilty of this dev1 i also run a 6x ac2 anny

[Horseman]

Dregian Bloodwrath, on 25 August 2021 - 06:22 AM, said:

tru but how many of us can take on a ac2 build

You do this by running a high burst build and breaking line of sight as much as possible so that the AC2 user can't bring their DPS to bear. Been there, done that.

[EXeCuToRPriME]

Hey, I had a a blast in Solaris! Got my top ten Decal and I was out! Anyways, when Solaris first dropped I was addicted, my teams group play suffered because I wasnt around, but I am a big fan of dueling! Solaris has increased the general skill level of alot of pilots, they needed that 1v1 experience, for real it teaches the basics. To many times have new players dropped into games only to be the first one focused down by 12 enemy mechs, How are they ever supposed to get decent at the game, Very high learning curve in MWO, Many people have probably giving up not truly learning how to play. So Solaris was great, thanks for doing it! All the different meta waves of finding the best mechs in each div, it was fun. Got to meet some cool people, made some great friends, and got to test my metal against some of the best players in the game Ohh the complaining, the salt, the competition, i have sweated some of the 1v1's ive had, panic attacks, you gotta stay focused lol. Muh Hands are shaking, Muh hands are sweating, but still putting that work in, still twisting that torso, BOOM HEAD SHOT, BOOM CROTCHSHOT, BOOM LEGSHOT

[Makenzie71]

That or I bring missiles and hide behind rocks and peck away at them. I do understand and that particular builder is annoying, I actually run and anti-meta build in division 1 because several seasons back there was a point where you had to go down 25 or 30 places to find a player who wasn’t running an AC2 or 10/5 annihilator. But that’s just one division. There still meta builds in the other divisions but there’s at least a little bit more variety than there is a division one.

AC2 spam really isn’t the issue the drives away new players though. What drives away new players is the fact that there’s no incentive to play. At this point the only people who play Solaris are people who would play whether there were rewards or not. Any new player willing to grind through a few hundred losses and who is willing to listen to advice can become quite competitive. But there’s no incentive to do it. Rewards were only meant for the best players. If you weren’t A front page player then your prize is a participation sticker. That’s a lot of time, hurt, and money for little to mo gain.

if i were a new MWO player i wouldn’t even be able to afford to play Solaris.

Edited by Makenzie71, 25 August 2021 - 10:36 AM.

[IronWolfPack64]

The decline of solaris started the month after it released when 70% of the player base had gone in, played it and seen enough. 1v1 and 2v2 gladiatorial combat while an interesting concept even in competitive games get STALE EXTREMELY QUICKLY! In faction play everyone wants to farm 48 mechs that’s fair cause that’s high damage scores and a lot of cbills, but for the most part there are also objectives for you to go after. These objectives not only allow less skilled players to have a chance to win WHICH IS GREAT! Meaning that they will keep coming back but also gives game diversity. Solaris has none of that. 5 small maps, no objective, no variety even further limited by the solaris tier system which in many cases can be seen as flawed. Battles always plays out the same 90% of the time.

I think the game mode needs to be worked on as a whole and probably mostly changed. I think 1 que would be great but most importantly I think it should go to a multi round match set system first to 7 wins.

First round map banns happen and you can play any mech from any division. The winner then gets too disadvantages. They can no longer play any mech from the division of the mech they just chose and the loser gets 4 map bans for the next round instead of 3 so it’s 4-2
Map bans in favor of the loser (note this benefit doesn’t stack.) if the player that’s just won then loses the next match map banning goes back to 3-3 and then if they lose again it’s 2-4 in their advantage this time. (I hope that makes sense) Under this system skill should still win out every time but the newer players who only have 1 or two mechs, if they are high division should be able to get 1 or 2 wins when fighting against a guy in tier 6-7 mechs especially when they get to choose the map. Every map gets played it’s longer form combat for more cbills and it adds some variety.

I don’t think the maps in solaris are big enough to have an objective really? Maybe some sort of incursion type system where there is a power cell that spawns on the map or something and you could use it to power up a couple turrets on your side or give you occasional radar sweeps or something just to make the game a little more dynamic but the above change really should come first as I think it would bring a lot more too solaris.

Also lumping all the loot box grinding into one bar would just make it easier and a better system for new players even if you have to double the cost it would likely just be a better system in any case.

And let people change what they are trying to grind for that division between matches as well. There is no reason to ever pick XP even though solaris is actually a pretty good way to grind XP it’s a waste for all other mechs in the division.

Edited by IronWolfPack64, 25 August 2021 - 08:02 AM.