96 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

...one TAG is all you need to punch through stealth armor.

I know. My garbage Lurmbrawler Stormcrow uses its face TAG to expose stealth lights assaulting the backline every other game I drive it in. it's one of the 'Mech's big strengths in low-tier games - its LRM fire attracts stealth bugs hungry for easy LRM bloatboat kills, only to confront them with a reasonably agile medium 'Mech well set up to make them regret the last ten seconds of their life.

If you're trying to punch through multiple ECM layers with multiple TAG lasers, A.) I don't think that actually works, and B.) the better way to do that is just equip an active probe. As Pattonesque said, your Cidada build is kinda actively horrible. Stealth lights aren't the only 'Mechs that would kill that Cicada for free; everything else in the game would, too. The inability to lock onto stealth bugs isn't the problem for a Cicada armed with two medium lasers and an MRM-10 launcher. It's the inability to do meaningful damage to enemies that's bringing you down.

[LordNothing]

ppcs are my favorite stealth countering weapon.

[Seelenlos]

pattonesque, on 01 September 2021 - 12:04 PM, said:

So look, I saw you in game a day or two ago and you were running a Cicada with two medium lasers, one MRM10, one LRM10, and two TAGs. Builds like this are a major reason why you are not performing well, particularly against stealth lights. Two ML/one MRM10 is not remotely enough direct firepower, one LRM10 is not nearly enough indirect firepower, and two TAGs is one TAG too many. This is a build which will lose a straight-up fight to every other competently built mech in the entire game with the sole exception, perhaps, of that one Spider which is just a cap-bot.

Is this the kind of mech that you're bringing to fights on a regular basis? It's no wonder why you keep getting killed by stealth mechs.

I do not own an X-5, but here are two suggestions from grimmechs which could help:

https://mech.nav-alp...7f05550d_CDA-X5

https://mech.nav-alp...38f48aa6_CDA-X5

The first is more of a skirmisher, the second more of a brawler. If you *absolutely must* bring LRMs on a medium, try this one:

https://mech.nav-alp...f0793a1d_TBT-7M

I must Kudo you for you detailed posts, very polite and precise. Thanks and ....
HOW THE F... DO YOU TAKE THE TIME TO WRITE SO NICE ??? WHERE DO U STEAL THAT TIME?

So back to topic:
You forget or don*t see a detail:
All Mechs are BAP installed!

So only looking at the weapons is a nearsighted view on any performance... I am not giving more details here on my strategies.

And why should I "fight" a stealth when I have an BH-BAP???

So the conclusion is: any discussion about fighting or paly-style or more is only defying the fact of BH-BAP.

In German: its comparing an apple with a pear!

Best Regards

[Castigatus]

Having a BH BAP would make zero difference to how well that mech performs because you still have an incredibly bad fit that gets eaten for lunch by any even semi-competent pilot that comes near it, no matter what mech they're using. Let's take the classic stealth flea for example, even if you see it coming (which to be fair a BH BAP would let you do) it's still faster than you, more maneuverable than you, and with that godawful fit you insist on using it probably has better firepower than you as well. Unless the light pilot is a complete moron or you get very lucky and give him a serious hit, which with the weapons you use is very unlikely, he's still going to kill you.

The BH BAP is not going to be a magic salve for your lack of gameplay skills and insistence on using subpar fits that don't play to the strengths of the mech you're using.

And MUH SEKRET STRATS!! is a terrible excuse for being bad at fitting your mech while simultaneously misunderstanding why the thing you think justifies that kind of fit actually doesn't, at all.

Edited by Castigatus, 02 September 2021 - 02:54 AM.

[pattonesque]

Seelenlos, on 02 September 2021 - 02:18 AM, said:

I must Kudo you for you detailed posts, very polite and precise. Thanks and ....
HOW THE F... DO YOU TAKE THE TIME TO WRITE SO NICE ??? WHERE DO U STEAL THAT TIME?

So back to topic:
You forget or don*t see a detail:
All Mechs are BAP installed!

So only looking at the weapons is a nearsighted view on any performance... I am not giving more details here on my strategies.

And why should I "fight" a stealth when I have an BH-BAP???

So the conclusion is: any discussion about fighting or paly-style or more is only defying the fact of BH-BAP.

In German: its comparing an apple with a pear!

Best Regards

I honestly don't know what your point is here. If you put this piece of equipment on your mech and you magically get to detect a stealth light, it's still going to absolutely beat the hell out of you because your mech is poorly built.

edit: like, are you going to somehow be happier now that you can see the paper doll of the mech beating you up? I suppose it'd make it slightly more likely for someone to come to your rescue, but also using the "need assistance" command or saying "stealth light on me in [grid square]" would work better.

Edited by pattonesque, 02 September 2021 - 05:22 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Seelenlos, on 02 September 2021 - 02:18 AM, said:

I must Kudo you for you detailed posts, very polite and precise. Thanks and ....
HOW THE F... DO YOU TAKE THE TIME TO WRITE SO NICE ??? WHERE DO U STEAL THAT TIME?

So back to topic:
You forget or don*t see a detail:
All Mechs are BAP installed!

So only looking at the weapons is a nearsighted view on any performance... I am not giving more details here on my strategies.

And why should I "fight" a stealth when I have an BH-BAP???

So the conclusion is: any discussion about fighting or paly-style or more is only defying the fact of BH-BAP.

In German: its comparing an apple with a pear!

Best Regards

the dude is trying to help you; a laser/lurm/mrm/BAP cicada, while it may be fun for you to drive, is just a bad build that you can improve upon - A LOT. I suggest you at least look at the help, and not just dish it with "my strategies".
a good build works anytime, everywhere. whereas a "my strategies"-build is prone to run into problems 9/10 times.

and since we're having 'german' adages:
bei deinem ding ists egal ob apfel oder birne - da ist einfach der wurm drin
btw: it's "apples and oranges" outside of germany.

[pattonesque]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 02 September 2021 - 05:23 AM, said:

the dude is trying to help you; a laser/lurm/mrm/BAP cicada, while it may be fun for you to drive, is just a bad build that you can improve upon - A LOT. I suggest you at least look at the help, and not just dish it with "my strategies".
a good build works anytime, everywhere. whereas a "my strategies"-build is prone to run into problems 9/10 times.

yeah for real. what I suspect, Seelenlos, is that you're dramatically overcomplicating things. Here's the strategy to use to combat stealth lights:

1. don't freak out
2. locate the stealth light
3. just shoot it

It's crazy simple and you don't need special equipment for it. You just need a mech that isn't built, again, in such a manner that it would lose a straight-up fight to every other competently built mech in the game.

[LordNothing]

idk, a good ppc shot, press r, and a 'target spotted' are usually enough to make it explode. if that doesnt work repeat until it dies.

Edited by LordNothing, 02 September 2021 - 01:12 PM.

[Seelenlos]

I want that BH-BAP. It is not your choice its the canon!

You don't because then you suck in those fleas of you, the moment it comes in the game.

It's like convincing with murderers about permission to install minority-report equipment !

[pattonesque]

Seelenlos, on 02 September 2021 - 04:14 PM, said:

I want that BH-BAP. It is not your choice its the canon!

You don't because then you suck in those fleas of you, the moment it comes in the game.

It's like convincing with murderers about permission to install minority-report equipment !

mostly I run the non-stealth Flea, the -17 with a bunch of SPL. Here are my stats in it.
FLEA FLE-17 39 27 12 2.25 71 14 5.07 12,812 80,874 04:43:18

And honestly, I'm not even that good. But even if I was running the stealth Flea, and I happened across your 2ML/MRM10/LRM10/2TAG X-5 with a brand-new Bloodhound probe, I would still absolutely tear you to shreds because your build is terrible. MOST Flea pilots would still tear you to shreds for this exact reason. This is the issue here, not the fact that one piece of equipment isn't in the game.

Edited by pattonesque, 02 September 2021 - 05:04 PM.

[MechNexus]

Oh boy, here comes the "MUH LUUUURRRRR" arguments...

It's already been established that the bloodhound wouldn't add much to the game that's not already covered by the beagle, and stealth armour is already loaded with drawbacks. Quit making excuses and take the advice that's been given.

[Castigatus]

Seelenlos, on 02 September 2021 - 04:14 PM, said:

I want that BH-BAP. It is not your choice its the canon!

You don't because then you suck in those fleas of you, the moment it comes in the game.

It's like convincing with murderers about permission to install minority-report equipment !

Lore is not involved in game balance for a very good reason. This is not the tabletop game, things do not work the same way, and the MWO game has its own set of basic rules and systems. Yes, a lot of it is based on the BattleTech lore and elements of the tabletop game, but that doesn't mean it automatically has to be, especially when game balance is involved.

Now, as has repeatedly been explained to you, BH BAPs as they function in the BT lore do not have enough additional utility over a standard beagle probe to be worth using in the MWO game environment and stealth armour already has enough drawbacks to using it that it's not a particularly popular choice on mechs that can fit it, outside of niche builds that are only good in a few specific circumstances.

Stop insisting they add something that isn't needed simply because you overestimate how good a thing is, especially after you demonstrated you don't know how to fit mechs properly and don't even understand how the thing you're complaining about actually works. You've already been given a ton of advice, so take some of it instead of being too stubborn to accept you're wrong here.

[Gagis]

The lore argument doesn't even hold water. By the civil war era, Stealth Armour is standard mass produced technology, while Bloodhound remains, not even advanced rules equipment, but experimental equipment all the way up to the Dark Ages.

There's a ton of other weird stuff in experimental tech throughout all ages which is not included in MWO or other video games nor really used in the board game either outside of specific scenarios.

[Seelenlos]

MechNexus, on 03 September 2021 - 12:14 AM, said:

Oh boy, here comes the "MUH LUUUURRRRR" arguments...

It's already been established <----

By whom? You? You are PGI? You are part of the Calderon?
Very trumpsih approach!!!

This is not the basis and the level to discuss here!

Its all by guts and feelings not numbers and testing!

[pattonesque]

Seelenlos, on 03 September 2021 - 05:18 AM, said:

By whom? You? You are PGI? You are part of the Calderon?
Very trumpsih approach!!!

This is not the basis and the level to discuss here!

Its all by guts and feelings not numbers and testing!

Your gut feeling is incorrect here. You got killed by a stealth locust and you’ve been angry about it for months instead of just taking the advice of players who are objectively way better than you are.

[pbiggz]

Seelenlos, on 03 September 2021 - 05:18 AM, said:

By whom? You? You are PGI? You are part of the Calderon?
Very trumpsih approach!!!

This is not the basis and the level to discuss here!

Its all by guts and feelings not numbers and testing!

[1453 R]

Okay.

Everybody, take a step back. Breathe. Continuing to dogpile the guy accomplishes nothing.

Seelenlos? The only advice I can really offer you at this point is that even if Piranha was willing to devote the resources to MWO to implement the Bloodhound Active Probe, it would be many months before it came into the game. That would be many months of getting hounded by stealth lights. I know they're super annoying, I absolutely hate stealth bugs. They're beyond frustrating to deal with, and a canny pilot in a stealth bug can spike anybody's blood pressure.

All people were trying to do, before everybody got their goat up, was share with you ways you could try and mitigate the stealth bug issue now, today, without needing a Bloodhound probe. It'd be amazing if we got an EW reboot, but in the absence of that reboot all we can do is play the game as it exists right now, which means learning how to cope with stealth bugs. one of the easiest ways to do it is to simply say "Stealth light in [grid square]". That alerts the team to the existence of the stealth bug, which ruins half its game plan from the start.

Trust me, Seelenlos. Everybody else hates stealth bugs too. Even the people who drive stealth bugs hate other stealth bugs. Everybody will stop and take potshots at the critters if they know where they are, because nobody wants to spend ten minutes at the end of the game hunting the goddamn thing down. Communication is your greatest weapon against Stealth Armor nonsense, both stealth bugs and the much rarer but infinitely more terrifying stealth sniper Thanatos.

You can pull for a Bloodhound probe, absolutely. Just...hopefully you can also figure out some ways to make the MWO of right-now easier on you for dealing with stealth bugs?

[Castigatus]

1453 R, on 03 September 2021 - 06:39 AM, said:

Okay.

Everybody, take a step back. Breathe. Continuing to dogpile the guy accomplishes nothing.

Seelenlos? The only advice I can really offer you at this point is that even if Piranha was willing to devote the resources to MWO to implement the Bloodhound Active Probe, it would be many months before it came into the game. That would be many months of getting hounded by stealth lights. I know they're super annoying, I absolutely hate stealth bugs. They're beyond frustrating to deal with, and a canny pilot in a stealth bug can spike anybody's blood pressure.

All people were trying to do, before everybody got their goat up, was share with you ways you could try and mitigate the stealth bug issue now, today, without needing a Bloodhound probe. It'd be amazing if we got an EW reboot, but in the absence of that reboot all we can do is play the game as it exists right now, which means learning how to cope with stealth bugs. one of the easiest ways to do it is to simply say "Stealth light in [grid square]". That alerts the team to the existence of the stealth bug, which ruins half its game plan from the start.

Trust me, Seelenlos. Everybody else hates stealth bugs too. Even the people who drive stealth bugs hate other stealth bugs. Everybody will stop and take potshots at the critters if they know where they are, because nobody wants to spend ten minutes at the end of the game hunting the goddamn thing down. Communication is your greatest weapon against Stealth Armor nonsense, both stealth bugs and the much rarer but infinitely more terrifying stealth sniper Thanatos.

You can pull for a Bloodhound probe, absolutely. Just...hopefully you can also figure out some ways to make the MWO of right-now easier on you for dealing with stealth bugs?

^ all of this.

[Seelenlos]

pattonesque, on 03 September 2021 - 05:43 AM, said:

Your gut feeling is incorrect here. You got killed by a stealth locust and you’ve been angry about it for months instead of just taking the advice of players who are objectively way better than you are.

You misunderstood:
It is your guts and feelings not mine.
I ask for data and testings!

So understand things or ask, or you are putting your words in others moght and I am not that kind to forgive that!

[1453 R]

Can I ask what sort of data and testing you're looking for? A lot has been lost in the argumentative ranting from several people here. What sort of data are you hoping people can give you?