57 replies to this topic

[Thorqemada]

The old Wolves dont fight Wolves problem.

But wait - that simple saying is not entirely accurate - Wolves do fight Wolves!

Although not for the reason they fight prey...

Wolves fight with other Wolves for the right to hunt prey, for the territory prey is found!

One of the problems of MWO is that no Mechanic or Game Mode wahtsoever reflects that!

In the died out Group Q and FP Wolves fought Wolves bcs the Prey left in Droves as there is neither a reason nor an obligation to make yourself available for being killed over and over after a boring wait and being penalized for being killed in the end.

There is a lack of mechanics that motivates Prey to get into Wolves territory and there is a lack of motivation to make wolves fight other wolves over and over again!

Its hard to do bcs MWO is an Arena game...

You could even bring Solaris back to some sort of Glory if you would find a way to incorporate it into a motivating reward mechanic/ game mode.

Like - and that is purely casting thoughts out of thin air what i do here and in no way shape or form a well reflected suggestion - each Weekend starting at Fridays eveneing Eastern Time a Solaris Challenge is opened and Units fight for additional Groupspots in FP/QP which are limited to the first 3 to 5 Units or more depending on participation and they get i.e. 3, 2 and 1 additional Group Spots that weekend so they can have up to 7 Players in a Group - can be expanded if enough poeple play for both the QP and FP matches accordingly.

The People facing these Groups get 30% more rewards for each additional Group Spot the other Team has and if facing Teams of 8 or bigger in FP the opposing Team gets 1 additonal Spawn.

Something like that...

And it needs to be more rewarded to get shot btw. as the game heavily penalizes your for being shot which leads to the problem that at some point people start to avoiding get shot and obviously that means you run out of targets and target shooting is the only thing MWO has!

Edited by Thorqemada, 17 September 2021 - 03:57 AM.

[pbiggz]

Instead of babbling about wolves and sheep, perhaps consider this,


This game is working towards having a healthy population again, but its still small, and splitting the queue into x different pools just so you can drop and club seals without a second thought, will do this game no good.

Additionally, loosening all restrictions on groups so that, theoretically, nothing would stop larger groups from joining, would indeed have a direct negative effect on the experiences of all players in said queue.

Things should stay the way they are. That's the only rational conclusion to make given what we are dealing with.

Edited by pbiggz, 17 September 2021 - 04:50 AM.

[Vamboozle]

The day they scrap the 4 man limit on QP is the day I’d give up.

I play for fun (hence QP) and my heart already sinks a little when I see one side with a 4 group and the other not as it usually signals a one sided match (usually not always).

I’d suggest setting up different queues for people who want to play in or with bigger groups but that just splits the player base further.

So a no from me.

[Novakaine]

That would be a no.

[pbiggz]

Vamboozle, on 17 September 2021 - 05:02 AM, said:

The day they scrap the 4 man limit on QP is the day I’d give up.

I play for fun (hence QP) and my heart already sinks a little when I see one side with a 4 group and the other not as it usually signals a one sided match (usually not always).

I’d suggest setting up different queues for people who want to play in or with bigger groups but that just splits the player base further.

So a no from me.

So far as I know one of the very last release valves to open is the group limit. The matchmaker will go through great pains to put a 4 man on each side if such groups are in the queue.

[Vectoron The Black Minister]

I'd have no problem doing more FW with less than 8 guys if it were more fun. Our particular issue is that the game modes of QP and the speed of the matches appeal to us more than FW. If we could get more QP style 15 minute games into FW, that would be appealing... but that seems like a ways off.

So were basically stuck with FW modes we don't really care for until the game reaches more population and/or PGI creates more modes to accommodate our wishes.

It is what it is I suppose.

I agree that QP does need to remain a friendly outlet for casual and newer players. Hopefully more can be done for FW later on.

EDIT: for clarity.

Edited by Vectoron The Black Minister, 17 September 2021 - 07:05 AM.

[1453 R]

I really do hate that every time the idea of playing with your friends come up, people get told "bring that crap to Faction Play, you stupid casual-hating jackwad!"

Faction Play, you say? The mode so poisonously bad that it nearly killed MWO more than once?

A game mode played on an eight kilometer long, two hundred meter wide bowling alley where absolutely no movement whatsoever happens?

A game mode wherein the entire objective is to sit behind a rock and poke anyone stupid enough to try and move in the noodle for several hours until you accumulate forty-eight 'Mech deaths worth of noodle pokes? After waiting several hours in the first place for the perpetually starved matchmaker to assemble a game in the first place?

A game mode that restricts you to half of your collection of 'Mechs, and if you pick the Clan half you're lambasted and ostracized by the rest of the community for being a Dam Dirdee Clammer and breaking the game?

A game mode so infamously terrible that virtually every Quickplay goober in MWO would rather quit the game outright than play it?

A game mode so horribly done that it's often actively touted as a punishment for having friends and used by QP goobers as an active means of exiling people they don't like to a wasteland of decay?

That Faction Play?

Sure. I'll do Faction Play. Right as soon as the QP goobers who keep screeching about how having friends is an actual factual sin and if you try to invite your friends to play MWO with you you're Worse Than <Godwin's Law> decide to truck on over there and populate that rusting Hell themselves.

[Nightbird]

No to cap increase.

[Storming Angel]

Nah its fine, get more influence here than you do in world of warships and any other peegee game where you are stuck to 3 man platoons and divisions.

[John Bronco]

1453 R, on 17 September 2021 - 07:52 AM, said:

long rant

Nice strawman, but all anyone has said in this thread is we think it's best to continue enjoying QP with your 4-man.

But yes, if you want to drop a giant stack, FP is available (and yes, I play FP - both solo and with large groups of friends).

Edited by John Bronco, 17 September 2021 - 08:53 AM.

[1453 R]

Note I didn't advocate for fiddling with the drop cap. I do think it's absolutely stupid that you're not allowed to play with your friends outside the "Punch Yourself in the Delicates Repeatedly for Several Hours" Faction Play mode, but at this point I know better. I'm just with Biggz in my disdain for the notion that groups and people playing with friends is somehow Bad For MWO. If getting mollycobbled by ultracomps once in a while is the price I pay for getting to play with my friends and/or introduce new people to this incredibly punishing, overwhelmingly newbie-unfriendly game in the only way that has a chance of working (that is, playing alongside them)? Then that's a price I'll pay without any issue.

It's other people that feel like the game owes them a 100% WLR and an infinite drip feed of seals to club, not me. The game wants me to go up against JGx, EMP, or whatever else? Sure. I'll be done in four minutes or less anyways and can move on, and who knows - maybe I'll learn something from the drubbing.

[Vectoron The Black Minister]

I think an issue some of us are having is that FW is a lot of work to A. Prepare for and B. Organize for. You have to grind four mechs. In QP, you set up by divvying tonnage between your friends and only need to worry with ONE Mech. FW is certainly not new guy friendly either.

Just because we have people, doesn't mean everyone wants to blow that much time and energy all the time. Many of us are just like everyone else in that we want to get on and just get right into a match.

If FW could work a bit more like QP in terms of game setup (at times, like before an actual invasion launched) that would be sweet and we wouldn't care about QP, we'd be much more inclined to do FW.

Just my two cents.

[RAM]

Long overdue fix to the biggest mistake PGI made


RAM
ELH

[LordNothing]

Monkey Lover, on 16 September 2021 - 09:49 PM, said:

Doesn't really work like this. Really hard to get so many people on at the same time. Even in the good days you start a day with 2 people and more come in as you play the night. You might end up with few 12 man teams.Then at the end people drop off one by one.




If we had programming anymore I would ask for a cap of 8 and put 4 on each side.

i think the proposed custom game upgrades would make that possible. keep your match in the lobby browser and as players log on, they can see that you are doing a custom game (possibly via a notification or an invite) and they can get on successive drops. another advantage is you can drop with a smaller number of players in the event that you cant find enough players to form a 12 man. you arent being blocked like you are in fp from dropping because the queue is empty and you dont have to put up with unwanted pugs like you have to in qp and you arent at the mercy of the vote system either.

you want to play long range mechs on a long range map you can do that, want to do nothing but stock urbies in a city map, you can do that too. a robust enough custom game system can replace things like solaris and fp entirely, do it better and without buckets. qp can remain more or less as is, or that too can be replaced by it as well if you throw in some default match configs. also while teams can spawn high stakes arenas just for them, so too can pugs, everyone has equal access to everything.

again programming is always the thing this game is lacking.

[1453 R]

I never understand why people always want to go back to lobby browsing systems for online games. That technology happened because it was the only way to make connections twenty years ago. These days? I want to just play. I don't want to spend twenty minutes trying fruitlessly to find a game that actually stays together long enough to play, or spend an hour trying to entice people into a game I'm trying to fill. It's super annoying. Just push the button, play the game. That's all I need. No fiddling with a giant list of random lobbies probably full of jackholes.

Button.

Game.

Good.

[Brauer]

No to further degrading the solo experience.

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

God no, if anything remove groups from QP. What a terribad idea. As someone that has dropped in groups and as solo in QP, dropping in a group is just no fun the W/L ratio becomes like 5/1 or something ridiculous.

Edited by Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-, 18 September 2021 - 05:23 AM.

[pbiggz]

Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-, on 18 September 2021 - 05:22 AM, said:

God no, if anything remove groups from QP. What a terribad idea. As someone that has dropped in groups and as solo in QP, dropping in a group is just no fun the W/L ratio becomes like 5/1 or something ridiculous.

Gonna push back on you there, I group to play with my friends. My being in a group rarely effects the outcome of the match in a major way and the bulk of the data we have on groups in the queue supports that.

That is not an argument to increase the group cap, it could be an argument to keep it the same.

And again, removing groups in the queue is how you absolutely trash this game. We don't have the population to support 3+ different queues.

Edited by pbiggz, 20 September 2021 - 06:32 AM.

[CFC Conky]

I play combat flight sims where groups and solo players mix it up. It works because the maps are large enough and the objectives diverse enough to allow groups and pugs to coexist without too much seal-clubbing.

That said, the current map/mode structure in MWO isn't set up like those other sims so allowing 4-player groups in QP is likely the lesser evil at the moment.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 20 September 2021 - 01:50 PM.

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

pbiggz, on 20 September 2021 - 06:31 AM, said:

Gonna push back on you there, I group to play with my friends. My being in a group rarely effects the outcome of the match in a major way and the bulk of the data we have on groups in the queue supports that.

That is not an argument to increase the group cap, it could be an argument to keep it the same.

And again, removing groups in the queue is how you absolutely trash this game. We don't have the population to support 3+ different queues.

Iunno man, I used to use solo queue to level mechs before, and now when I drop solo I gotta drop real mechs in queue to actually help carry. Then when I drop with in a small group and we are all in like two heavies and an assault, I definitely see the combined carry potential affecting the matches.

For example that free warhammer I just got in the event, I'm probably gonna level it in faction play instead of quickplay because I don't think dropping an unlevelled mech in quickplay is feasible anymore cause of going up against 4 man groups while dropping solo.

I am not calling for buckets at all. I know the population cannot support it. I am straight up saying groups in quickplay queue should be eliminated.

I am not the game developer and I don't have an answer for the "well what to do with groups and people that wanna play groups". I know not everyone wants to faction play, which is where my group content takes place. Not everyone wants to make private lobbies and play either cause private lobbies don't give cbills (I don't think, I don't do that stuff). But the current system is definitely a less fun quickplay experience. Maybe PGI just needs to give cbills for private lobby games too if groups wanna play competitively against other groups. But the fact that the solo experience is now the solo versus 4 man group or two experience is just terrible.

I basically always play meta mechs, but sometimes I like to just try new/random builds. I can see people who just wanna play around with their derpy mech builds having a worse experience than me because the regular queue now requires you to play a meta, fully skilled build to have a decent chance at having a good (read cbills, contributing, good match score) experience.

Edited by Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-, 20 September 2021 - 06:31 PM.