230 replies to this topic

[Rizzi Kell]

just one sided note...why give Clan Gauss Same heatpenalty as IS, it is same range, same damage, but if destroyed it destroy the componment it is mounted.... oh and is still have armor quirks. get the rid of justt buffing everything to dead. just remove all quirks and then you can get theese mechs underperforming a little love.
Still possible to alpha 6 LPL on IS side, ever tryed that on clanside???? as i said before just another big bad joke from the cauldron. duration of IS LPL still much more effective then on clanside who got the nerf? Yes you readed it right Clanlpl get nerfed again.
same weapon must have same effects so dmg range heat and burntime should be same, get the stupid loosing sidetorso explode on heat that is still there, most clanmechs can´t switch in standard engine.
Still missing counterparts against RAC MRM L-Gauss Heavy Gauss, so implement Clan RAC, Clan HYper Assaultgauss, IS could have ATM too if they think they are still OP....
get the Stealth abillity off, or make it again that you could not get cool in stealth, and or give it clan too. You say it is no gamechanger so just get it off the game or give it both sides.

[Clay Endfield]

Rizzi Kell, on 20 September 2021 - 02:16 PM, said:

just one sided note...why give Clan Gauss Same heatpenalty as IS, it is same range, same damage, but if destroyed it destroy the componment it is mounted.... oh and is still have armor quirks. get the rid of justt buffing everything to dead. just remove all quirks and then you can get theese mechs underperforming a little love.
Still possible to alpha 6 LPL on IS side, ever tryed that on clanside???? as i said before just another big bad joke from the cauldron. duration of IS LPL still much more effective then on clanside who got the nerf? Yes you readed it right Clanlpl get nerfed again.
same weapon must have same effects so dmg range heat and burntime should be same, get the stupid loosing sidetorso explode on heat that is still there, most clanmechs can´t switch in standard engine.
Still missing counterparts against RAC MRM L-Gauss Heavy Gauss, so implement Clan RAC, Clan HYper Assaultgauss, IS could have ATM too if they think they are still OP....
get the Stealth abillity off, or make it again that you could not get cool in stealth, and or give it clan too. You say it is no gamechanger so just get it off the game or give it both sides.

Clan doesn't use Stealth; it's seen as unhonorable among Clanners. 2nd, while we're discussing disparities between Clan and IS... Why do Clan LPLs only weigh 5 tons compared to IS's 7 tons? Why do clan Double Heatsinks only take up two critical slots compared to IS's 3? Why does Ferro and Endo only cost 7 critical slots apiece on Clan side while IS costs 14 slots apiece? Why does IS XL engines take up 6 critical and convert either side torso into a critical component, while Clan XL engines only take up 4 critical slots and come without the critical side torso defect?

Why do Clan weapons weigh less, take up less slots, and why do Clanners have more variety and BETTER lasers than IS in general?

Naw never mind all that, WAH, my BS Clan tech can't be boated like IS can boat, WAH!

Seriously, an Awesome 8T running 4x LPLs is going to be running 4x LPLs and NOTHING else. If clan had the same LPL heatscaling, a Warhammer-IIC could get away with 4x LPLs and a Gauss Rifle or two. Would that fair to IS?

Didn't think so.

[Voice of Kerensky]

YiffyInAJiffy, on 20 September 2021 - 08:08 AM, said:

Worth noting, the rescale would not hurt streaks at all and would instead make them a stronger option. At least from my understanding, streaks pick an individual, per missle bone to lock on, and are not spread dependant. Their spread would be completley unaffected, while every other weapon would get worse. (even pinpoint, as you're more likely to flat out miss)

I see you did not understand what I meant, hinting at the imminent reduction in the size of the mechs.
Keep in mind that many lights have already received improvements in agility, acceleration and deceleration.
The lights have already become faster and more maneuverable, and will soon become smaller, and it is more difficult to locked a small maneuvering target than a biger and slower one.
In general, this is what the lightdrivers should do: maneuver, and not stand with their mouths open, letting the streaks take lock. But, apparently, some lightdrivers find it difficult to understand it, and they demanded a nerf for streaks. And we came to what we came to. Streaks have become almost useless weapons. Even Cauldron members do not deny this, stating that streaks have never been effective against big targets, while simultaneously killing the effectiveness of streaks against lights.

[C337Skymaster]

John Bronco, on 19 September 2021 - 07:06 PM, said:

Wouldn't this just further shift the meta to mechs with torso weapons, which are already the best mechs anyway?

Yes and no. Even 'mechs with torso weapons will have some spread. Since the weapons fire in parallel to each other, hardpoint mounts on different components will strike different components on the target, or partially miss altogether. It WILL, however, make 'mechs with hardpoints all on the SAME component relatively powerful, compared to their peers. It would still make it more difficult to group weapons from across multiple components together to hit the same target. 'Mechs such as the Hellbringer would need to divide the torso lasers into left/right weapon groups, and then attempt to decide where the head-mounted laser fits best based on personal preference. Fired all at once, each side would hit a different component on the target, because they're spread just far enough apart. Light 'mechs, such as the Javelin and Piranha would experience the least downgrade, due to the already close proximity of their weapons, while 'mechs such as the Flea and Locust would experience a bit more weapon spread. Even a small pulse Piranha would have their two torsos hitting two different target components as often as not, due to the speed they need to maintain, and the tight targeting tolerances required to get the whole torso lined up on a single target component. They would need to be good at left/right weapon grouping, and then adjust for the off-center targeting required to hit the same spot, increasing the skill required to do well (high skill frequently being touted as a good thing). The built-in scatter of machine gun fire means that they wouldn't be affected nearly as much by the change. The same goes for LBX autocannon, SRMs, MRMs, and lockon weapons wouldn't be affected at all.

[C337Skymaster]

justcallme A S H, on 19 September 2021 - 11:02 PM, said:

3. Streaks have never been good against heavies+ so there is little point trying to slot that in.

And yet that was SPECIFICALLY mentioned in the patch notes when they were nerfed, that "their up-front damage is decreased to prevent one-shot kills against lights, while their overall DPS is being increased to make them more useful against heavies and assaults" except that their DPH was ALSO decreased, and the overall effect was to make them useless against everything. They were tweaked a little bit to put them in the middle of the two sets of stats, but they're still hotter than previously, and do less damage than previously, and have utterly failed to meet the STATED CLAIM of being "more effective" against heavies and assaults, while simultaneously being weaker against lights.

[C337Skymaster]

Gitstompa, on 20 September 2021 - 05:07 AM, said:

lmao.

Imagine thinking this is a good idea.

Why isn't it? It's literally the foundation of every single game ever created that has a "technology tree". It's also one of the biggest driving factors in every single other game of this exact franchise ever made: you couldn't always find an Atlas, so you had to make due with what you COULD find. If you could find an Atlas, you couldn't necessarily find a second one. Certain 'mechs are more common in Battletech than others. Natasha Kerensky was famously most afraid of Awesomes, because the chances of her running across an Atlas in battle were remote, but Awesomes were relatively common. Similarly, Dire Wolves are fairly sparse, but Mad Dogs, Hellbringers, and Mist Lynx' are literally EVERYWHERE.

[C337Skymaster]

Roodkapje, on 20 September 2021 - 09:37 AM, said:

Don't like that idea either but I was wondering : Is there a list where I can see easily which mech belongs to which House or Clan ?!

I am always afraid that I might combine the wrong cockpit item (banner/flag/you know) with the wrong mech!

So that's actually unfortunately complicated. Some 'mechs are easy: Dragons, Maulers, Panthers, and Jenners are built specifically for the Draconis Combine. Any found in other militaries are salvage. Commandos and Zeuses are the same for the Lyran military. Ravens, Vindicators, and Cataphracts are the same for Liao (except the Cataphract 3D. Long story short: the planet where the factory is was captured by the Davions for awhile).

A good starting point is that any 'mech ending with a D (Marauder 5D, etc) is Davion.
Any 'mech ending in a K is Kuritan
Any 'mech ending in S is Steiner
M is Marik
L is Liao.

Rasalhague uses a mix of older Kurita and Steiner equipment, since the region was formed from areas of those two empires, and the local militias were transitioned directly into the KungsArme.

Problem is: 'mechs like the Atlas-D aren't Davion, they're named for Defiance Industries on Hesperus II in the Lyran Alliance where the 'mech is built, but that one predates the fall of the Star League and wound up everywhere by the time of the Exodus. Similarly, the Jenner-D is named for the Diplon 'mech factory where that 'mech is built, but that planet is located in Kuritan space. Likewise, the Jenner-D predates the fall of the Star League, but it didn't go everywhere quite as much as the Atlas did.

EDIT: Anything with a "B" tacked on the end was built exclusively for the Star League Royal Guards, and presently exists only with the ComGuards or with the Clans. None of the Great Houses have access to anything with a "B" designation.
X is "eXperimental" so you have to go with who made the base chassis. (ANH-1X: very early Clans. RVN-1X: Liao, but not in-game. RVN-2X is actually Davion, because they couldn't fix the ECM system on the 1X and swapped it for a large laser, instead. CTF-1X: Liao, etc).
99% of the time "P" is PGI, meaning it's something they made up that never existed in any of the record sheets, or that they modified to fit the game. ENF-5P never existed. CTF-0XP supposedly had some sort of mine-laying equipment. But then you get 'mechs like the HGN-733P which is an actual build, with the P standing for "PPC".
End EDIT.

Equipment is also region specific:
Stealth Armor is Capellan
I can't actually tell where Light Ferro was developed. One source says Davion, then Steiner, then Marik.... no idea.
Heavy Gauss Rifles are Lyran
Light Gauss Rifles are Free Worlds League (Marik)
Heavy, Light, and Snub Nosed PPCs are Kuritan.
MRMs are also Kuritan
Rotary Autocannon are Davion
Heavy Lasers are a Crusader Clan tech (Falcons, Wolves, Jaguars, Vipers, and more. Star Adders came up with them)
ATMs are a Warden Clan tech (Wolves-in-Exile, Ghost Bears, Nova Cats, and more. Coyotes came up with them).

There are "Random Assignment Tables" in some of the TT rulebooks which were meant to allow you to roll a pair of dice and determine what equipment your unit has on hand, so you could theoretically determine probabilities from that, but probabilities are the closest you'll get.

There are fan-made Random Assignment Tables that correlate data from many, many, many other sources, but due to the sheer volume of information available, most of those are incomplete.

Fainting Goat, on 20 September 2021 - 12:37 PM, said:

I think the easiest adjustment would be to just increase the tonnage of AC2's: make it 7 tons for IS, 6 for clan. A clear improvement.

Breaks stock builds.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 21 September 2021 - 11:56 AM.

[Horseman]

Fainting Goat, on 20 September 2021 - 12:37 PM, said:

I think the easiest adjustment would be to just increase the tonnage of AC2's: make it 7 tons for IS, 6 for clan. A clear improvement.

An improvement that will outright invalidate multiple builds. Thanks, but no.

[Horseman]

C337Skymaster, on 20 September 2021 - 08:02 PM, said:

Why isn't it? It's literally the foundation of every single game ever created that has a "technology tree". It's also one of the biggest driving factors in every single other game of this exact franchise ever made: you couldn't always find an Atlas, so you had to make due with what you COULD find. If you could find an Atlas, you couldn't necessarily find a second one. Certain 'mechs are more common in Battletech than others. Natasha Kerensky was famously most afraid of Awesomes, because the chances of her running across an Atlas in battle were remote, but Awesomes were relatively common. Similarly, Dire Wolves are fairly sparse, but Mad Dogs, Hellbringers, and Mist Lynx' are literally EVERYWHERE.

It's one of those things that sound immersive on paper but not necessarily great in the framework of the game we have right now. Remember Repair & Rearm?
It's a perfect match for a single-player game and would be nice in an immersive Mechwarrior-based MMO.
In the Mechwarrior-themed online shooter we have, however, it doesn't really fit and would mainly disadvantage new players rather than old veterans who have at least one of damn near everything.
The most I can see that would do it is bolting on a rewards bonus in Faction Play based on how faction-appropriate and how widely available your mechs are, but that would be a lot of work for PGI for very little gain.

[pattonesque]

C337Skymaster, on 20 September 2021 - 08:02 PM, said:

Why isn't it? It's literally the foundation of every single game ever created that has a "technology tree". It's also one of the biggest driving factors in every single other game of this exact franchise ever made: you couldn't always find an Atlas, so you had to make due with what you COULD find. If you could find an Atlas, you couldn't necessarily find a second one. Certain 'mechs are more common in Battletech than others. Natasha Kerensky was famously most afraid of Awesomes, because the chances of her running across an Atlas in battle were remote, but Awesomes were relatively common. Similarly, Dire Wolves are fairly sparse, but Mad Dogs, Hellbringers, and Mist Lynx' are literally EVERYWHERE.

this is a great idea for HBS Battletech

[YiffyInAJiffy]

Voice of Kerensky, on 20 September 2021 - 05:16 PM, said:

I see you did not understand what I meant, hinting at the imminent reduction in the size of the mechs.
Keep in mind that many lights have already received improvements in agility, acceleration and deceleration.
The lights have already become faster and more maneuverable, and will soon become smaller, and it is more difficult to locked a small maneuvering target than a biger and slower one.
In general, this is what the lightdrivers should do: maneuver, and not stand with their mouths open, letting the streaks take lock. But, apparently, some lightdrivers find it difficult to understand it, and they demanded a nerf for streaks. And we came to what we came to. Streaks have become almost useless weapons. Even Cauldron members do not deny this, stating that streaks have never been effective against big targets, while simultaneously killing the effectiveness of streaks against lights.

Hadn't considered that the smaller mech would impede the initial lock on, that's a good point.

That being said, I disagree pretty strongly that lights are hard to lock on with a streakboat, I've run plenty of streakboats myself, and bar the odd stealth light (a whole other story) It's a low bar even with them trying to weave.

I mean, hell just look how forgiving that lock-on hitbox is, that's not radar decay quirks/skills holding the lock, that's just where it starts grabbing the lock!
https://imgur.com/a/Xd13XHM
(yes they're stationary and out of cover, the example is purely to show off the hitbox)


Streaks
-lock on at a fast speed even without tag in their usable range, and incredibly fast with tag within their usual range
-Need to travel a smaller distance than other lockons, despite comparable velocity
-Unlike every other lock on in the game track after fired even if you lose your lock, fire and forget!!!

Should lights learn how to manuever, use cover, and not just stand still with their mouths open, absolutley! But when they're NOT standing still, when they are manuevering, streaks are the best for the task of putting them down for a nap. Would love to see streaks do better against heavies and up, but they perform perfectly well against lights.

Even lights deserve a more than 2 second TTK, bar specific scenarios with really nicely landed pinpoint shots. The barrier for entry on that shouldn't just be a weapon system and rounding the wrong corner for more than a single second. Even lights need a moment to

-round a bad corner
-recognize a bad matchup
-Turn and return back to cover after spending the time doing the above getting decently far from said cover due to how accel/decel works in this game.

This shouldn't be instant death against a single opponent. A good maiming, for sure, but not instant death.

Edited by YiffyInAJiffy, 21 September 2021 - 07:20 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Why won't you implement an overide toggle? Also an option to remove the hideous warning at the top of the screen? Please?

[pattonesque]

DAEDALOS513, on 21 September 2021 - 08:01 AM, said:

Why won't you implement an overide toggle? Also an option to remove the hideous warning at the top of the screen? Please?

very likely requires an engineer. but both would be nice to have and I hope they do it.

[DAEDALOS513]

pattonesque, on 21 September 2021 - 08:13 AM, said:

very likely requires an engineer. but both would be nice to have and I hope they do it.

The number times I have died (and probably lost matches) because of this is very sad to think about. If they could fix the bay doors, this can't be that much harder, no?

[Gagis]

DAEDALOS513, on 21 September 2021 - 08:54 AM, said:

The number times I have died (and probably lost matches) because of this is very sad to think about. If they could fix the bay doors, this can't be that much harder, no?

The bay doors fix was by setting the delay value to 0 on a XML document so they got around the need of having to touch code at all.

I sure hope those changes are made too but we'll have to wait for them.

[DAEDALOS513]

Gagis, on 21 September 2021 - 09:27 AM, said:

The bay doors fix was by setting the delay value to 0 on a XML document so they got around the need of having to touch code at all.

I sure hope those changes are made too but we'll have to wait for them.

Ok thanks for the clarification. Although I do it on occasion to help break the monotony, I try to avoid the meta, long range game and feel dirty when I do it.. so I'm usually front-lining it. This fix would really help out the brawlers and more aggressive players that actually rely on it.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 21 September 2021 - 09:44 AM.

[Heavy Money]

DAEDALOS513, on 21 September 2021 - 09:33 AM, said:

Ok thanks for the clarification. Although I do it on occasion to help break the monotony, I try to avoid the meta, long range game and feel dirty when I do it.. so I'm usually front-lining it. This fix would really help out the brawlers and more aggressive players that actually rely on it.

Override toggle is the sort of thing we'll hopefully be getting once the new studio has finished figuring out the code base (so like, starting in the new year).

[Fae Puka]

Well, what can I say . . . . ?

Caustic is now utter garbage!

First, second, third and onward impressions are that this is now an orange Viridian Bog with a multitude of bent dil do s stuck in it to represent . . . ? No idea, PGI/Francois have completely lost the plot with this one.

Previously I gave some acknowledgement to design capabilities for other games, but this is just pathetic and makes me wonder whether Francois left another game or was pushed because of his inability to produce anything remotely well designed, but hey, that's the kind of employee Russ seems to actively seek out.

Earlier I said the game was going down the pan; correction, you can look up and see the swirly water up above

Edited by MummyPig, 21 September 2021 - 11:33 AM.

[C337Skymaster]

Horseman, on 21 September 2021 - 06:02 AM, said:

It's one of those things that sound immersive on paper but not necessarily great in the framework of the game we have right now. Remember Repair & Rearm?
It's a perfect match for a single-player game and would be nice in an immersive Mechwarrior-based MMO.
In the Mechwarrior-themed online shooter we have, however, it doesn't really fit and would mainly disadvantage new players rather than old veterans who have at least one of damn near everything.
The most I can see that would do it is bolting on a rewards bonus in Faction Play based on how faction-appropriate and how widely available your mechs are, but that would be a lot of work for PGI for very little gain.

I was unfortunately too late for Repair and Rearm, as well as Dragon Bowling, and a few of the other open-beta histories. I'll admit: as a new player with no resources, R&R would probably have been a bit miserable, since the culture of the game is "Gotta catch 'em all". As a veteran player with too many freaking CBills, I'd love it, cuz it'd give me something to spend money on. Definitely biased in favor of the veteran, though, and probably too late to change without other changes to go along with it. "Gotta catch 'em all" is a good motivation to play for a year or two, but once you HAVE them all, there needs to be another reason to play. Currently, I only play to acquire MC and GSP, and anything that costs those (the 'mech bay that comes with the free 'mechs is of more interest than the 'mechs themselves). My thoughts as a grizzled old veteran are that the game might have had more staying power if, instead of getting one of everything, you're trying to keep and maintain your one (maybe a spare) 'mech, and find uses for it.

Thing is, the "Immersive Mechwarrior-Based MMO" is what we were promised back in 2011, and what some deluded old fools like myself are still holding out hope to get eventually. In the mean time, I'm going to keep suggesting features and updates that push us in that direction.

If they ever do create MWO2, it should definitely take another hard look at being an immersive, in-universe MMO, and not just an arcade shooter like this one unfortunately became. The story is half the reason anyone plays this game, and is the ONLY reason any of the equipment makes any sense, so without that, we get updates like we've been getting the last few months.

[C337Skymaster]

Heavy Money, on 21 September 2021 - 11:29 AM, said:

Override toggle is the sort of thing we'll hopefully be getting once the new studio has finished figuring out the code base (so like, starting in the new year).

I'd be more excited for a heat system rework, to be more like TT and every single other game so far: where instead of instant shutdown at 100.001% heat, you have several seconds to override, and as you get hotter and hotter, that override interval decreases, until you hit a certain point where you can't override and you're forced to shut down, with mobility penalties along the way, and the chance to cook off your ammo. It's up to whoever implements that if they want to retain internal overheat damage or ditch it, since that was not part of the original heat scale, but has been useful on occasion where a suicide was necessary to end a match (it's rare, but I saw a guy get stuck on Forest Colony a couple weeks ago where we could NOT get to him, and the only way to not sit and wait for the next 7 minutes was for him to overheat).

pattonesque, on 21 September 2021 - 06:57 AM, said:

this is a great idea for HBS Battletech

This is IN HBS Battletech. And MW5, and MW4, and 3, and 2, and MechCommander. And MechCommander 2. I've not been able to find a copy of MechWarrior 1 (or was that one called "Battletech"? Might be part of why I can't find it to play it). That's literally where I got the idea for it: it's been in every single other Battletech related game I've had the pleasure of playing. "You go to war with the stuff you've got", to quote an old politician.