230 replies to this topic

[bear_cl4w]

The Bud, on 17 September 2021 - 04:16 PM, said:

Though I know the Cauldron had listed no plans to change up (buff) the non hero Quickdraws, I am still disappointed by the reality that such mediocre mechs are left in their current state while some of the most commonly played (perhaps even superior) mechs are buffed (Ebons, Maddogs, Hunchbacks, Fleas, etc.). That said, I appreciate the Vindicator, Champion and Panther buffs.

The fact of the matter is, we can only quirk so many mechs in one pass. So if you don't see mechs that you know are pretty bad or don't perform well this patch, they'll probably be in the next pass.

[D V Devnull]

nuttyrat, on 17 September 2021 - 04:56 PM, said:

Thank you for the feedback! Fear not, I shall post your feedback in the Cauldron so it can be discussed. Out of curiosity, which mechs do you feel need to be buffed (other than the non-hero Quickdraws)? Note that this is the 2nd quirk pass so some mechs were already adjusted.

Navid A1, on 17 September 2021 - 05:01 PM, said:

Clarification on the Gauss change.

That change will not affect how everything works right now. You will be penalized if you fire a combo of three ERPPC and Gauss together.

The change affects mechs that have ERPPC HSL +2 (currently only MAD-6S) to allow it to fire 3 ERPPCs and Gauss with no penalty.
The value of 7 is chosen as a limit we will never reach, effectively removing gauss as a limiting factor in how many weapons can alpha in a group. leaving it all to PPC family weapons. Remember that you can not fire more than 2 Gauss rifles at the same time due to charge limit

This change is a foundation for potential future quirks

IL ORSO, on 17 September 2021 - 05:20 PM, said:

The fact of the matter is, we can only quirk so many mechs in one pass. So if you don't see mechs that you know are pretty bad or don't perform well this patch, they'll probably be in the next pass.

And good on you guys for 99.5% of the changes, too.

There are probably a few other things I want to bring up, but I'm going to leave them by the wayside for the moment. At this time, my biggest concern is about the C-LPL GH Penalty Multiplier changes which are inbound, and I've posted a question on Page 1 @ Post 12 of this thread. May I ask the bunch of you (and obviously anyone else in The Cauldron who should) to read that, and then tell us all what spurred such a huge jump instead of a more incremental one?

~D. V. "very confused about the C-LPL GH Penalty Multiplier changes" Devnull

[Audacious Aubergine]

C337Skymaster, on 17 September 2021 - 04:44 PM, said:

For now, though, I'm cautiously optimistic that we might have gotten one good remake. Fourth time's the charm?

I mean what's the worst that could happen? The original caldera gets moved to the edge of the map as a background feature while a majority of the remaining map is now a sparsely decorated expanse ringed by high walls?

[Cataphract40]

InnerSphereNews, on 17 September 2021 - 03:18 PM, said:

KING CRAB
KGC-000:

• Added AC20 HSL +1

KGC-0000:

• Added AC20 HSL +1

KGC-000B:

• Added AC20 HSL +1

Edited by Cataphract40, 17 September 2021 - 05:55 PM.

[Le Bum]

I have thoroughly enjoyed all the map reworks since Polar Highlands and am definitely looking forward to this new rework. I am also highly anticipating NEW MAPS to be thrown in every other update or so. Keep up the good work.

[justcallme A S H]

D V Devnull, on 17 September 2021 - 04:45 PM, said:

Literally, my only concern is the sudden jump in the C-LPL Ghost Heat Penalty Multiplier that first went from 3 to 4 initially, but is now jumping to 6.25 all of a sudden.

cLPL is basically going back to pre-Cauldron heat penalty for firing more than 2 at once. It is not a huge jump so much as it's just being put back to how it was.

It is already strong so there is no worry in backing it off.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 17 September 2021 - 06:16 PM.

[Navid A1]

God I'm so ready for this!

Edited by Navid A1, 17 September 2021 - 06:46 PM.

[MechWpnsTech]

pattonesque, on 17 September 2021 - 05:01 PM, said:

Wasn’t supposed to have it in the first place, it was a recent bug

piss poor reason, it just proves pgi's greed.....being forced to buy ecm mech packs

[Navid A1]

MechWpnsTech, on 17 September 2021 - 06:46 PM, said:

piss poor reason, it just proves pgi's greed.....being forced to buy ecm mech packs

Has nothing to do with PGI this one... we decided to keep the ECM exclusive to the -C,... otherwise we would be decreasing Armor on the Prime CT which is pretty lame.

DWF-C comes out in October for Cbills

Edited by Navid A1, 17 September 2021 - 06:49 PM.

[Elizander]

Ammo change for lights is good. It's always been an issue given the higher armor and structure values in the game.

[-Ramrod-]

Why the hell did you nerf the Hellspawn? Don't tell me it was OP because it isn't even with the current quirks. Everything else seems ok though.

[Bud Crue]

nuttyrat, on 17 September 2021 - 04:56 PM, said:

Thank you for the feedback! Fear not, I shall post your feedback in the Cauldron so it can be discussed. Out of curiosity, which mechs do you feel need to be buffed (other than the non-hero Quickdraws)? Note that this is the 2nd quirk pass so some mechs were already adjusted.

Sorry, I didn't intend to post that under my alt. In any case, the only mechs I care to see buffed, are those with limited, and mixed hard points, particularly heavies.

To my way of thinking the Quickdraw 4G and to a lesser extent the Quickdraw 4H and to a lesser extent still, the 5K, are the examples of Heavies with potential loadouts that can be done better with numerous other variants that are better, and in many cases better and lighter. To be blunt, they have no character and no real reason to exist in the present game.

To illustrate: why would I bother with a MPL 5K or even a laser vomit 5K when I can build a better mech in a Jester or a Grasshopper (heavier but otherwise similar in characteristics, save for the GHP will have slightly less agility but better armor, cooling and a higher alpha potential, and the Jester gets the same build plus dual AMS), or go lighter in a 55 ton Sparky (assuming JJ are a must) or be far tankier in a Crab if JJs are not a concern, or even a Wolfhound. A 4H is a doable 2HPPC build (heat bonus), but why not just take a 3ERPPC Veagle for more agility, half weight JJs, and a similar arguably better) alpha with no range restrictions? If you are going to look at mix build, yes the 4G and 4H have some potential, but hereto a mech as light as an X-5 or any of a variety of 45-55 ton mechs can do the same build as well or better. If you are going to turn the 4H into an MRM boat you are still better off with an IV-4, and even better off in a Wolverine at 5 tons less. There is absolutely NOTHING you can build on the 4G that another mech can't do better ( 3LPL? the Thunderbolts rule this niche, 2 SRM4, or a 4 and a 6 +Artemis, with Snubs or MPL, see above).

As they are, all three of the non-hero Quickdraws are pointless. Anything they can do something else can do the same build but better, and that is why I would like to see them buffed.

Lastly, you suggest that this is just the "second" quirk pass, and their might be some potential for them to be buffed in the future. I certainly hope that is true of all variants/mechs if the data justifies it, but my comment originates from when the Cauldron (then Gulag) first put out its initial spreadsheet of mechs in need of changes, and the only Quickdraw that was listed was the IV--4 and it was one of the few mechs listed for a nerf (50% reduced armor quirk). There was nothing listed for the rest. I just think they need some help to make them more viable in the current meta (armor instead of structure for example)

[TubbyToast]

No way you guys are crazy, this will be alot of fun for sure
edit: better then christmas ever was

Edited by TubbyToast, 17 September 2021 - 07:07 PM.

[LordNothing]

Navid A1, on 17 September 2021 - 06:41 PM, said:

God I'm so ready for this!

urbie op pls buff some more.

[Enamillion89]

Won’t you please consider the following mech types. Agro Construction mechs, Melee Mechs, and Quad mechs? I know it’s be extra work. But it would add something refreshing to the game concept(s). Thanks!

[C337Skymaster]

pattonesque, on 17 September 2021 - 04:54 PM, said:

Specifically what’s the objection to new HPG

Oh, boy: what's not to object to? First and foremost, the new redesign is butt ugly, and completely ruins the entire aesthetic of the map. There are ramps freaking EVERYWHERE, none of which make any sense at all, anymore. I've personally seen at least two "suicides" from 'mechs that fell off the wall into the out-of-bounds area and couldn't get back up the wall again because it's too high right where they were at and they didn't have time to run to a lower section. In order to run "domination" matches, we're now ADDING a dish to a map whose central defining feature is a giant dish...

If you want to keep the current arrangement and fix the issues, get rid of all the freaking ramps. You can completely eliminate any and all cover on top of the walls, if sniping is your main concern. Honestly, you wouldn't have cover up there, anyway. At least not to protect you from the inside, so that would be entirely fitting and in keeping with the facility design. (Nor would any cover that might exist be able to withstand weapons fire from a battlemech).

Thing is, HPG didn't need a rework. Certainly not one that drastic. Any "being left behind by rotation" issues were circumvented by shortcutting through the basement. Snipers were dealt with by massed return fire (I can't remember when's the last time a sniper on the wall was actually effective, prior to the recent buff to Centurion armor, and I can distinctly remember snipers being thoroughly punished via PPC, AC/2, and LRM fire from the previously central platform, even in the weeks and months leading up to the patch). Certainly any time I tried getting up on the wall, I didn't last more than two volleys before I had to jump down and seek effective cover, because there wasn't any up there, and there's a LOT of long range firepower on the modern battlefield.

Everyone gets super pissy about "the last guy" and how the 12th player on a team continues to try to kite and fight, rather than dutifully reporting to the slaughterhouse like a good little boy, but simultaneously we have abuse report options for pilots who do exactly that. If everyone is so incredibly concerned about "the last guy" then we need to add a withdrawal option, rather than destroy functional maps.

What I wouldn't mind seeing, though, is the two "out of bounds" areas outside the HPG station brought within the playable boundary area, so a 'mech can completely circumnavigate the exterior of the facility. It'll present options to non-jump-capable 'mechs who can suddenly find themselves up on a wall they never had any business being on, who accidentally step off the wrong side, and it'll open up options for lighter 'mechs who might not have a clear shot through the center.

Map boundaries remind me of Lewis Black's description of a paid hunting facility that uses fences to keep game trapped in a small area: "We've found [the deer]. We've got it trapped in the corner!"

[Agent Super Chicken]

Ruh Roh - this is where I do all my Testing Grounds to make sure my builds have enough ammo to kill 8 mechs that aren't fighting back.
Will the same 8 dummy mechs be present on the new map?

[Lionheart2012]

Exponential damage fall off needed for HPPC

[Android5000]

So this is Caustic Valley Re Reborn? We need NEW MAPS....

[Hiten Bongz]

Sun Spider didn't get enough love. Still mediocre at best with the minor armor boost. No real quirks to speak of, and still a giant hitbox on legs with no arms that can shield. All of this on a mech that has very limited loadout options due to a serious lack of hardpoints available, and it's still a very sub-par choice to take into battle.

Edited by Hiten Bongz, 17 September 2021 - 08:31 PM.