282 replies to this topic

[pattonesque]

Lemme tell you a quick story about Piranhas

About a week or so back I'm in an HPG match where one of my teammates took it upon himself to shot-call. Fantastic! He did a decent job and we ended up winning relatively handily. Only at one point did his nerve break -- he started taking fire from a light mech with machine guns and with a rising panic in his voice he started yelling "Piranha on me! Piranha on me!"

This was revelatory. We'll come back to it later

__________

Lots of people will tell you the Piranha is OP. This is understandable to a certain extent. At 20 tons, the Piranha is capable of punching far above its weight, carrying incredible numbers of red lasers or machine guns that let it dish out a lot of short-range damage very quickly. We've all had the experience of letting a Piranha get behind us only to suddenly be down a torso or leg or something. Not fun! Would not recommend!

Here's the thing, though, and this bears remembering. The Piranha has a power that is tied to its weaponry but also far beyond it. Yes, it's fast, but other mechs are faster. Yes, it's agile, but not nearly as agile as many other lights. It doesn't even have jump jets! Or ECM! Gosh, could you imagine a Piranha with either of those? Freaky.

No, the Piranha's special power is this: many of you are terrified of it.

__________

OK, yes, I know. Piranha OP, Piranha broken, why does the Piranha carry so much firepower, etc., etc. We know it carries a lot of Gun. What it doesn't carry -- even with slight buffs to the less dangerous variants in the upcoming patch -- is armor. Seriously, try it out! Go to your preferred online mech builder and hit the max armor button on a Piranha-2 or -3 (the real scary ones, never mind the -1). On MechDB, the number I see on the CT, the most heavily armored part of the mech, is 22. For structure, it's 15 (on the -3). That's 37 total health on the toughest part of the mech. Even if I max out the survival tree, it only comes out to about 47 or so. On the toughest part of the mech! It's lower on the torsos, lower still on the legs.

What this means is that the Piranha effectively cannot hold up if something starts shooting at it. One hit from a dual-heavy gauss mech will take a component. Two or three alphas from an ERPPC Shadow Cat will take a leg. Hold a good burn from almost any laservom mech on a component and poof! There it goes!

And honestly, it's not terribly hard to do. A good Piranha pilot will try to deny you shots, but again, it's not that small or that agile. Compare it to the start-stop jittering of a MASCing Flea or the ability of a Mist Lynx to disengage and juke with JJs.

Where the Piranha's special power takes hold is when many people see it descending on them. They look at all those red lasers or all those machine guns and immediately do one of two things:

1. They panic. They start thinking of how horrible it will be when all those red lasers start melting them or all those machine guns chattering away constantly and they absolutely freak out.

2. They give up. Seriously, sometimes I'll punch someone in the back with a Piranha and you can see them alt-tab out of the game and start angrily typing on the forums about how unfair it is that anything shot them at all.

Either way, they fail to do the one thing that will drive the Piranha off or kill it entirely, which is shooting at it effectively. Yes, it's a mech that carries a lot of firepower. Yes, if you leave it alone it will chew you up. But here's the thing -- the more you face off against higher-level players, the less effective you will be in a Piranha, not because they possess MLG-level aim or have the best gamer chairs money can buy, but because they actually shoot the Piranha.

This is going to come off a little condescending and I'm sorry about that. But seriously, the next time you feel the fish coming after you, just take a deep breath and put rounds into it. I guarantee you'll see better results.

Also look at the minimap, if you can shoot it before it gets within 200m of you or put an alpha into it as soon as it rounds a corner, even better.

__________

Our poor shot-caller ended up being fine, you know. A Piranha-1 carries 12 machine guns, but the Incubus-3 that caused him to freak out only carries four.

[ScrapIron Prime]

The piranha is one of several reasons I always get both seismic nodes for any non-light mech I pilot. If it’s in micro laser range, it’s visible on seismic!

[pattonesque]

ScrapIron Prime, on 17 September 2021 - 06:18 PM, said:

The piranha is one of several reasons I always get both seismic nodes for any non-light mech I pilot. If it’s in micro laser range, it’s visible on seismic!

this is also a good idea! The worst thing a Piranha can see when it's trying to backstab you is your guns pointed right at it when it rounds a corner

[justcallme A S H]

Want a foolproof guide for anti-PIR?


SHOOT THEM.

[Angus McFife VI]

JUST SHOOT IT!!!!!!!!
https://cdn.discorda...5.DVR_Trim.webm

[ThreeStooges]

Just use the most anti-light weapon in the game. Streak srm 6s. 3 will either blow it in half or kill it depending on how shot up it is. Any other light like an is fle will suddenly disappear.

[caravann]

Streak is subjective weapons based on having missile hardpoints and carry weight.

What's better than 1 mech , 2 mechs.

Every game has been based on this. You think the mech is alone but there's 2 of them

Do not walk alone in the dark. Bring light in the darkness.

[Saved By The Bell]

Fast lights hard to shoot properly, because of server-client small lags. Well, you shoot the place, where is already nothing.

[Brauer]

justcallme A S H, on 17 September 2021 - 06:39 PM, said:

Want a foolproof guide for anti-PIR?


SHOOT THEM.

Please don't though, us Piranha players thank you.

Saved By The Bell, on 17 September 2021 - 10:15 PM, said:

Fast lights hard to shoot properly, because of server-client small lags. Well, you shoot the place, where is already nothing.

Not really, HSR makes shooting lights relatively easy and means that only packet loss or rapid changes in the difference between your ping and your target's ping really create any issues at all (and it's obvious when this is happening due to rubber banding/warping).

[justcallme A S H]

Brauer, on 18 September 2021 - 04:39 AM, said:

Not really, HSR makes shooting lights relatively easy and means that only packet loss or rapid changes in the difference between your ping and your target's ping really create any issues at all (and it's obvious when this is happening due to rubber banding/warping).

Yeah no issues here with 250ms+.

I shoot at a light it dies.

[Gagis]

Packet loss can be mitigated by switching from WIFI to wired, buying a better router or by demanding your internet service provider to replace their faulty equipment. Absolutely no reason to live with it.

[ScrapIron Prime]

ThreeStooges, on 17 September 2021 - 07:05 PM, said:

Just use the most anti-light weapon in the game. Streak srm 6s. 3 will either blow it in half or kill it depending on how shot up it is. Any other light like an is fle will suddenly disappear.

Streaks in my experience hit multiple armor locations and a light can usually soak the damage and withdraw. Plus there's the issue of maintaining a lock-on, which can be difficult if you're not skill tree-d and equipped for it.

Best way to take on a light, IMHO, is pinpoint damage. 30 points to a single armor location does a great job. Just take that extra half second to line up your shot and let HSR do the rest.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

ScrapIron Prime, on 18 September 2021 - 05:57 AM, said:

Streaks in my experience hit multiple armor locations and a light can usually soak the damage and withdraw. Plus there's the issue of maintaining a lock-on, which can be difficult if you're not skill tree-d and equipped for it.

Best way to take on a light, IMHO, is pinpoint damage. 30 points to a single armor location does a great job. Just take that extra half second to line up your shot and let HSR do the rest.

plus streaks kinda lock you into an "anti light only" - role.
which is a thing in organised faction, but not really something you wanna do in QP for longer periods since it's dicy and gets dull quickly there (doing the same thing over, and over, and over..).

[1453 R]

The Piranha's fear aura truly is its greatest weapon. Learning to make your save against a Doomfish's Frightful Presence will at least quadruple your win rates against the blurdy thing. Most Piranhas have to stare at you to hit you for any real damage, and frankly? They're as bad a shot as you are. When they're flying by at 145, they can't hold a bead on you any more easily than you can hold a bead on them. They have to slow down to lay on the pain, and that's when you can Shoot The Fish™ and make them regret being a fish. Even a half-assed laser burn on them will make them think twice, any form of pinpoint hit will give them conniptions, and frankly even sandlbasting them with half-aimed LB/X or MRM fire will usually make the Fish break off.

They depend on their fear aura - show you're immune to it and the effect reverses. The Fish is scared of you when you're not scared of the Fish.

[Escef]

ThreeStooges, on 17 September 2021 - 07:05 PM, said:

Just use the most anti-light weapon in the game. Streak srm 6s. 3 will either blow it in half or kill it depending on how shot up it is. Any other light like an is fle will suddenly disappear.

So, 18 SRMs targeted randomly across its non-head hit locations? If we're talking IS Streaks, that's 36 damage spread across a minimum of 3 hit locations (provided you hit the mech from the side, rather than head on). Unless the mech is already badly damaged, all you've done is scare 'em a little. If they're Clan Streaks, not even that.

I'm dead serious. You can walk a Streak36 Mad Dog into the testing grounds and start plowing missiles into a stock Commando. Stock. No skills. Just stock armor and quirks, that's it. It can tank over 70 missiles without losing components.

Now, you want to kill lights? Work on your aim, learn how to lead targets with ballistics and PPCs, and just blast whole hit locations off. Hell, some weapons are pretty forgiving, try twin LB20X on a big Clan mech, it will eat lights for breakfast. And as a bonus, these kinds of weapons are useful against big mechs, too.

Streaks are gimmicky, but not in any way efficient. They aren't even good at the one thing people say they're good at.

[Curccu]

ScrapIron Prime, on 17 September 2021 - 06:18 PM, said:

The piranha is one of several reasons I always get both seismic nodes for any non-light mech I pilot. If it’s in micro laser range, it’s visible on seismic!

Standing still for seismic to work is more dangerous than piranha IMO.

[GoodTry]

Curccu, on 18 September 2021 - 06:59 AM, said:

Standing still for seismic to work is more dangerous than piranha IMO.

I rarely run seismic, but I pick it up sometimes if I'm getting the ECM nodes anyway etc. I've noticed that it actually turns on more often than you'd think, including when you change directions, while you are behind cover about to poke, etc. I've actually wondered if it is bugged.

[Brauer]

Escef, on 18 September 2021 - 06:26 AM, said:

So, 18 SRMs targeted randomly across its non-head hit locations? If we're talking IS Streaks, that's 36 damage spread across a minimum of 3 hit locations (provided you hit the mech from the side, rather than head on). Unless the mech is already badly damaged, all you've done is scare 'em a little. If they're Clan Streaks, not even that.

I'm dead serious. You can walk a Streak36 Mad Dog into the testing grounds and start plowing missiles into a stock Commando. Stock. No skills. Just stock armor and quirks, that's it. It can tank over 70 missiles without losing components.

Now, you want to kill lights? Work on your aim, learn how to lead targets with ballistics and PPCs, and just blast whole hit locations off. Hell, some weapons are pretty forgiving, try twin LB20X on a big Clan mech, it will eat lights for breakfast. And as a bonus, these kinds of weapons are useful against big mechs, too.

Streaks are gimmicky, but not in any way efficient. They aren't even good at the one thing people say they're good at.

TBF a decent streak-boat will still often halve a PIR in one-shot


The Commando has a HUGE amount of additional HP from quirks btw

Edited by Brauer, 18 September 2021 - 07:35 AM.

[1453 R]

Streaks in general are much less effective against light 'Mechs than many folks think. In the time it takes for you to acquire a lock against a madly juking light 'Mech and let your thirty-odd points of scattered damage fly, you could've taken two laser burns against the twigger, or two shots at it with pinpoint guns. If one of those two pinpoint shots hits, you've done more to dissuade/kill that light than five flights of Streak missiles would, and as mentioned earlier even a half-*** laser burn is often just as damaging to a light 'Mech as a Streak volley.

Streaks, much like ATMs, are currently just bad. They're somehow even worse than ATMs right now, which is baffling. You can try and Streak a Piranha, but it's generally not a great use of tonnage. Frankly I have better luck when I'm letting myself use ATMs against lights - chase them out of ATM minimum range with whatever your non-ATM weapons are, and then the ATMs deal significantly more impactful damage to most lights than Streak launchers do. Piranha closing in from four or five hundred meters are usually not pleased to see someone who remembers their ATMs have a 'medium range' option.

[FupDup]

The point of Streaks being promoted as an "anti-light counter" is that having randomly spread aimbot damage is better than missing your shot with normal weapons (thus doing no damage at all).

What's better than both is, of course, to hit your shot with normal weapons.

It's a pretty stupid balancing paradigm that makes Streaks (and lock-ons in general) less effective as you get better at the game, rather than scaling with your own skill like most other weapons do.

Edited by FupDup, 18 September 2021 - 08:47 AM.