23 replies to this topic

[Rkshz]

The height on the E5 is ideal for snipers. But there are several important problems:
1. This height allows you to control the entire map.
2. This height allows you to keep the flanks under control (rear 100% protected).
3. It is easy to hide at this height (one step to the left or right or back completely hides you due to obstacles).
4. MOST IMPORTANT - this height is the drop point (skirmish mode). That is, snipers do not need to do anything to occupy this height.
On other mods, you only need to walk 800 meters. But given the fact that the team in 99% of matches always goes to the right side, this gives a free lane for movement.

In order to knock out snipers from a height of E5, you need to run half the map in a circle (at the same time, you run the risk of encountering enemy flankers).
But snipers at E5 do not need to do anything to take this position.


For example:
On the HPG, snipers need to go to the walls - that is, the enemy team has time to either avoid the fire line or take a counter position.
On HPG, if the sniper went to the walls, he CANNOT control the entire map. To do this, he will have to constantly change his location, because the center of the map overlaps half of the view.
Same with others map - in order for snipers to take a good position, they need to move a lot - and you cannot control the ENTIRE map and even more so you cannot control the rear and flanks well.

You can give an example of the "THE MINING COLLECTIVE", how snipers can immediately stand on a dark rock behind a drop point - but they do not control the ENTIRE map, because the center of the map obscures the view. And while the flanks are completely open.

Solution to the problem: remove the height E5

Edited by Rkshz, 20 September 2021 - 04:38 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

So... what you're saying... is that there's a place on Canyon Network where the snipers are just BEGGING to be left behind by their team and picked to pieces by flanking light mechs? Sounds great!

[caravann]

Since snipers tend to be of the slow kind they can kill one mech and play the anti-sniper game of never showing up for dance again.

[D A T A]

oh no!! there is a 1% of the map where snipers are allowed to exist!!! let me go on the forums and complain saying is OP, while you can already gank that place with lights or hide in canyons negating entirely that place, so snipers just cease to exist from this game!!!

[Alexander of Macedon]

It literally doesn't matter. In low tier nobody is going to be an effective sniper, and T1 is nothing but brainless selfish nascar 24/7 so anyone who tries to take advantage of the position is just going to be left behind and overrun.

[Wildstreak]

The only problem I find on Canyon is the wall where they put no ramps at all.

[Rkshz]

D A T A, on 20 September 2021 - 12:21 PM, said:

oh no!! there is a 1% of the map where snipers are allowed to exist!!! let me go on the forums and complain saying is OP, while you can already gank that place with lights or hide in canyons negating entirely that place, so snipers just cease to exist from this game!!!

if E5 position was bad or easily knocked out of the flank, your DWFs snipers would not build nest there every game

[Saved By The Bell]

I died many times there in Tanatos, couse all my team just run somewhere. So...

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 21 September 2021 - 01:40 AM.

[John Bronco]

This thread tells us an interesting story.

[Wildstreak]

I posted the real problem here with picture illustration.

[R Valentine]

Rkshz, on 20 September 2021 - 04:24 AM, said:

The height on the E5 is ideal for snipers. But there are several important problems:
1. This height allows you to control the entire map.
2. This height allows you to keep the flanks under control (rear 100% protected).
3. It is easy to hide at this height (one step to the left or right or back completely hides you due to obstacles).
4. MOST IMPORTANT - this height is the drop point (skirmish mode). That is, snipers do not need to do anything to occupy this height.
On other mods, you only need to walk 800 meters. But given the fact that the team in 99% of matches always goes to the right side, this gives a free lane for movement.

In order to knock out snipers from a height of E5, you need to run half the map in a circle (at the same time, you run the risk of encountering enemy flankers).
But snipers at E5 do not need to do anything to take this position.


For example:
On the HPG, snipers need to go to the walls - that is, the enemy team has time to either avoid the fire line or take a counter position.
On HPG, if the sniper went to the walls, he CANNOT control the entire map. To do this, he will have to constantly change his location, because the center of the map overlaps half of the view.
Same with others map - in order for snipers to take a good position, they need to move a lot - and you cannot control the ENTIRE map and even more so you cannot control the rear and flanks well.

You can give an example of the "THE MINING COLLECTIVE", how snipers can immediately stand on a dark rock behind a drop point - but they do not control the ENTIRE map, because the center of the map obscures the view. And while the flanks are completely open.

Solution to the problem: remove the height E5

There's a counter balance to E5 on the opposite team. It's C5. The problem with C5 is that it requires you to go left out of spawn. Welp, you refuse to go left out of spawn, thus you are unable to use this area. That pretty much sums up what the problem is.: You. Try going left out of spawn every once in a while.

[Rkshz]

Kiran Yagami, on 21 September 2021 - 06:13 AM, said:

There's a counter balance to E5 on the opposite team. It's C5. The problem with C5 is that it requires you to go left out of spawn. Welp, you refuse to go left out of spawn, thus you are unable to use this area. That pretty much sums up what the problem is.: You. Try going left out of spawn every once in a while.

yes, C5 is an alternative, but I repeat, in 99% of matches the team goes to the right side - that is, the position of C5 is initially vulnerable
but I really like how premades become on E5 and play shooting gallery
most players do not understand what to do with this, do not understand that snipers need to be knocked out on the Canyon first of all

I rarely play snipers and even less often stand in one place, this is not my playstyle
so personally I have no problem with this

but we play QP and I see the problem for others

Edited by Rkshz, 21 September 2021 - 06:25 AM.

[R Valentine]

Rkshz, on 21 September 2021 - 06:24 AM, said:

in 99% of matches the team goes to the right side

Kiran Yagami, on 21 September 2021 - 06:13 AM, said:

The problem with C5 is that it requires you to go left out of spawn. Welp, you refuse to go left out of spawn, thus you are unable to use this area. That pretty much sums up what the problem is: You.

[Rkshz]

Kiran Yagami, on 21 September 2021 - 06:29 AM, said:

That pretty much sums up what the problem is: You.

yes, this is my problem, not a game design problem, then on Skirmish the 1st team appears at E5 and the 2nd team appears at C2
do you have any logic at all?
but i laughed, thanks

[John Bronco]

Come on Kiran, you know Rkshz is the ultimate nascar champion.

A leopard can't change its spots.

[R Valentine]

Rkshz, on 21 September 2021 - 06:38 AM, said:

yes, this is my problem, not a game design problem, then on Skirmish the 1st team appears at E5 and the 2nd team appears at C2
do you have any logic at all?
but i laughed, thanks

I go straight to the C5 trash pile on canyon anytime I spawn near it. Works just fine as long as you don't get LRMed to death, because those hills aren't tall enough to stop indirect fire arcs. If you can't be bothered to go there, that's your business. Play how you like, but there's nothing wrong with the map.

[Rkshz]

John Bronco, on 21 September 2021 - 07:16 AM, said:

Come on Kiran, you know Rkshz is the ultimate nascar champion.

A leopard can't change its spots.

yes

Kiran Yagami, on 21 September 2021 - 08:44 AM, said:

I go straight to the C5 trash pile on canyon anytime I spawn near it. Works just fine as long as you don't get LRMed to death, because those hills aren't tall enough to stop indirect fire arcs. If you can't be bothered to go there, that's your business. Play how you like, but there's nothing wrong with the map.

are you going from C2 to C5? I have no more questions

[FupDup]

Kiran Yagami, on 21 September 2021 - 06:13 AM, said:

There's a counter balance to E5 on the opposite team. It's C5. The problem with C5 is that it requires you to go left out of spawn. Welp, you refuse to go left out of spawn, thus you are unable to use this area. That pretty much sums up what the problem is.: You. Try going left out of spawn every once in a while.

To be fair, 1 person going left while the other 11 go right is a pretty easy way to wind up as the first person dead on your team.

Something frequently overlooked in long-range balance discussions is the teamplay element, and I think that some of the map/weapon changes made recently seem to assume that teams are cohesive and coordinated rather than acting on hivemind instinct.

[Angus McFife VI]

caravann, on 20 September 2021 - 11:06 AM, said:

Since snipers tend to be of the slow kind they can kill one mech and play the anti-sniper game of never showing up for dance again.

I don't know what makes you think night gyrs, vapor eagles, summoners and hellbringers are slow.

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 21 September 2021 - 03:25 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

The opposite side has Junkyard as a control point of equal power.

Try using it rather than claiming imbalance.