134 replies to this topic

[Angus McFife VI]

MyriadDigits, on 23 September 2021 - 04:27 PM, said:

C ) are running terribad lore-alike dadbot Atlases that have zero build focus and therefore is undergunned in every engagement.

[justcallme A S H]

PeppaPig, on 23 September 2021 - 01:40 AM, said:

I do pilot lights, I do get good kill results, but because of the pin point accuracy and focus, rarely get good damage or match scores

You know the stats and public right?

The last 6 months you're around 0.75 KDR. That is below the average of the player base.

Your issue is very much not light mechs. One needs to acknowledge the actual issue before one can seek to rectify it.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 23 September 2021 - 04:56 PM.

[Blood Rose]

MyriadDigits, on 23 September 2021 - 04:27 PM, said:

Fun fact, its actually mostly the "secondary COD refugee kiddies" with their "optimised, minmaxed, heavy/assault monster" that are telling people to just shoot the light mech. The people who need to be told to just shoot the light mech are typically players who:
A ) simply can't aim
B ) panic at the sight of something under 45 tons
C ) are running terribad lore-alike dadbot Atlases that have zero build focus and therefore is undergunned in every engagement.
D ) all of the above

Nah, half the time its refugees from tacticool FPS games not understanding that there are counters to a lot of things and that there is no real "360noscope" l33t build. Its the same people who scream and seethe when an LRM dings their precious hull, or who insist maps should be all sniper lanes. Boring people.
Dadbots are actually usually cool players imo, they understand the lore and the feel of the system and dont throw a tantrum when a lightmech shoots and scoots, or a volley of missiles gets them in the open.

Quote

"How to ensure new players leave the game immediately 101"

Frankly, I think enforcing pre-helm stock is terrible regardless, since the biggest issue for new players isn't necessarily having too much junk so much as it is not explaining any of it, but this would require its own own queue to even remotely function like you think it would. Additionally, new players should be guided on how to make things at least semi-intelligently so that they can at least get their foot in the door when they get into actual matches against actual players, and teaching players to use stock mechs would only encourage bad build habits that'll put them behind the curve and eventually put them off the game when they keep getting their hind kicked.

Pre-helm builds are terrible thats the point. players coming in to the game seem to think that everything has to be minmaxed overcompensating vomit fests, and balk at the idea of non optimised designs despite the lore being filled with them. Pre-helm mechs would teach them to respect the power their minmaxed monster has and at least understand the progression.

Quote

If you want "the true spirit of Battletech", MechWarrior 5 is right next door, and HBS Battletech is just across the street.

Kek, your funny. The tabletop game is the core of the spirit of BT. Regardless, there should be some way to push people to more lore friendly designs. Maybe a stock mech queue or something.

pattonesque, on 23 September 2021 - 04:29 PM, said:

Also can we please stop pretending that allowing only stock mechs would somehow eliminate a meta

The good players would just find the best mechs and play them. A game full of WHK-Primes lol

Some would, but Warhawk Primes run hot. A couple of volleys would see them forced to retreat and cool down. That said, reintroducing Convergence from the Beta days would help eliminate a lot of the issues regarding the current front loaded pinpoint damage meta. 60 damage is no where near as hot when you have to spend a few seconds waiting for your guns to zero in or risk it being spread over the target.

justcallme A S H, on 23 September 2021 - 04:55 PM, said:

You know the stats and public right?

The last 6 months you're around 0.75 KDR. That is below the average of the player base.

Your issue is very much not light mechs.

I havnt played for over a year so im not really surprised.
[edit]
Actually, I only started playing again this week.

Edited by Blood Rose, 23 September 2021 - 04:57 PM.

[YueFei]

Blood Rose, on 23 September 2021 - 04:56 PM, said:

I havnt played for over a year so im not really surprised.
[edit]
Actually, I only started playing again this week.

Lies.

[Blood Rose]

YueFei, on 23 September 2021 - 05:11 PM, said:

Lies.

Again, I have not played in the past year that I can remember. But whatever helps you sleep I guess.

[pattonesque]

Blood Rose, on 23 September 2021 - 05:36 PM, said:

Again, I have not played in the past year that I can remember. But whatever helps you sleep I guess.

it's just that we can see you played 70 games between Jan/Feb 21

[Blood Rose]

pattonesque, on 23 September 2021 - 05:42 PM, said:

it's just that we can see you played 70 games between Jan/Feb 21

Huh, I dont actually remember them. Was that when the pandemic mech reward event was?

[MyriadDigits]

Blood Rose, on 23 September 2021 - 04:56 PM, said:

Nah, half the time its refugees from tacticool FPS games not understanding that there are counters to a lot of things and that there is no real "360noscope" l33t build. Its the same people who scream and seethe when an LRM dings their precious hull, or who insist maps should be all sniper lanes. Boring people.
Dadbots are actually usually cool players imo, they understand the lore and the feel of the system and dont throw a tantrum when a lightmech shoots and scoots, or a volley of missiles gets them in the open.

Hate to break it to you, but most of the tacticool RP comes from the dudes who run dadbots, not the people who understand how to run build optimized mechs. Those people at least understand as far as making a mech for a particular situation means its not as good outside of said situation (but still better than being bad in every situation).

Granted, there's still salty people in good mechs, but they fall into the other categories I mentioned of "panics at the sight of anything less than 45 tons" and "just can't aim". Good mech can't fix bad aim after all.

Blood Rose, on 23 September 2021 - 04:56 PM, said:

Pre-helm builds are terrible thats the point. players coming in to the game seem to think that everything has to be minmaxed overcompensating vomit fests, and balk at the idea of non optimised designs despite the lore being filled with them. Pre-helm mechs would teach them to respect the power their minmaxed monster has and at least understand the progression.

Well you see, MWO is a PVP arena shooter. Most people attracted to PVP arena shooters like the idea of winning against other human beings, and often that relies on leveraging every available advantage. Building a minmaxed mech and playing it such that it remains in the situation it excells in as often as possible is critical to that. They don't really need to play terribad junk that sucks in 100% of situations to understand just how bad the terribad junk is. Worse is that if they actually manage to do good in terribad junk, they might convince themselves that its good, and start sharing misinformation because of it.

Blood Rose, on 23 September 2021 - 04:56 PM, said:

Kek, your funny. The tabletop game is the core of the spirit of BT.

You're wanting a digital game that better approaches the "true spirit of Battletech", those games are the places to push for it. Not the PVP arena shooter that merely uses the universe as a set piece.

Also, tabletop had build customization, both in the sense of completely custom chassis, as well as accommodating modifying existing mechs in a running campaign. Minmaxing in any form is a natural symptom of such.

Blood Rose, on 23 September 2021 - 04:56 PM, said:

Regardless, there should be some way to push people to more lore friendly designs. Maybe a stock mech queue or something.

Would have less of a pulse than Solaris, and Solaris is dead as a doornail. Worlds 2018 is a good demonstration of how little interest the playerbase of MWO has in stock mechs.

Blood Rose, on 23 September 2021 - 04:56 PM, said:

Some would, but Warhawk Primes run hot. A couple of volleys would see them forced to retreat and cool down. That said, reintroducing Convergence from the Beta days would help eliminate a lot of the issues regarding the current front loaded pinpoint damage meta. 60 damage is no where near as hot when you have to spend a few seconds waiting for your guns to zero in or risk it being spread over the target.

Literally every minmaxed big PPC mech in the game already plays like that, and with cERPPC being top of the meta for like 2 years all the top players would have more than plenty of experience running mechs like it. It legitimately wouldn't play much different to any typical TC5 WHK-Prime.

Also, non-convergence would be another fantastic way of driving away large swathes of population, as it would functionally make mechs with spread hardpoints useless. Be it the for fun crowd or the competitive crowd, making most of the mechs in the game that already suffer from bad geo even more painful to drive would be precisely the opposite of fun. Not to mention making things yet more difficult and complex for new players that already struggle with the various unexplained complexities of this game.

[Bamboozle Gold]

In an ideal world the tiers would allow both the optimised and lorebuff builds coexist. You've got tiers where people run optimised builds and know to just shoot lights, and you've got tiers where tabletop afficionados can run their lore friendly AC20 + LRM10 Atlases and people can mess around with meme builds. Ideally it'd all stay good.

The issues arise when there's new players that aren't aware of this delicate balance and decide to play a metamech in the tabletop tiers, or the meme players decide to drop a lance of 9 Streak 2 ACW-1s which promptly messes up all the lore Atlases.

Or something?

[Mochyn Pupur]

justcallme A S H, on 23 September 2021 - 04:55 PM, said:

You know the stats and public right?

The last 6 months you're around 0.75 KDR. That is below the average of the player base.

Your issue is very much not light mechs. One needs to acknowledge the actual issue before one can seek to rectify it.

LMAO - the resort to trying to stat shame, priceless . . . .

Yes I do know the stats are public knowledge, what isn't public knowledge is that my main account that sits in the top percentile each season and what you are looking at is the one my daughter shares with me when she wants to play; considering she is only 12, that's a pretty good KDR, so once again, your pathetic attempt to try and win an argument falls flat on its face

[MW Waldorf Statler]

thats the Problem from Aircraft Carrier or Bsttleship to far from the Support Fleet and finding by a Submarine...

when you not can handle a Assault ,drive no Assault

Mechs not like the Guns in Cod ,with the MaxMeta you can kill in seconds all others

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 24 September 2021 - 01:56 AM.

[Arnetheus]

PeppaPig, on 24 September 2021 - 12:46 AM, said:

LMAO - the resort to trying to stat shame, priceless . . . .

It's not really about stat shaming, more like trying to assess if there might be other issues to your performance with lights, starting at your basic skill level evaluation and your mech classes play ratio.
More so considering that the following doesn't make much sense:

Quote

I do pilot lights, I do get good kill results, but because of the pin point accuracy and focus, rarely get good damage or match scores because of the pitiful rewards scheme, so I tend to play heavier weights because of the rewards.

1) What "pin point accuracy and focus" has to do with "pitiful rewards scheme"?
Are you afiraid to be instantly blasted as a light and spend too much time hiding from high alphas, hence not shooting much and doing less damage than you would compared to higher tonnage mechs? Otherwise, lights get lots of bonus MS from "light/medium protected", when fighting near allied heavies and assaults.

2) Or, even if you mean pin point accuracy of lights getting successful backstabs, coring people out from behind and hence having low dmg scores while collecting kills? Well, that's the point of those builds, if that style suits the player. You trade your average MS for arguably higher KDR and WR. Personally, i find it unreliable as a solo player and default to PPC/med pulse/er med/ micros lights. Those tend to have no issues with farming MS through the damage upfront. So again, not sure what the "low rewards" thing is about.

3) Also, not sure what problems with farming the score you have, when you just wrote:

Quote

any competent light pilot can have a field-day with hit and run tactics or simply hiding under/behind the slower heavier chassis

Sounds like a weird self-contradiction, since you count yourself as fairly competent.

Quote

Yes I do know the stats are public knowledge, what isn't public knowledge is that my main account that sits in the top percentile each season and what you are looking at is the one my daughter shares with me...

So... why are you not sharing your main acc in this last reply then? Shouldn't be an issue to showcase your top percentile performance as a response, right? =)
Otherwise, looks like Ash's "pathetic attempt" has a point. Even if he wasn't elaborating much on it.

[Wildstreak]

Arnetheus, on 24 September 2021 - 02:14 AM, said:

It's not really about stat shaming, more like trying to assess if there might be other issues to your performance with lights, starting at your basic skill level evaluation and your mech classes play ratio.

How about we just stop analyzing things since proper analysis tools do not exist?

[Arnetheus]

Wildstreak, on 24 September 2021 - 02:35 AM, said:

How about we just stop analyzing things since proper analysis tools do not exist?

By that logic, this very thread should not exist, as well as 90% of others. Cauldron should not be asking for feedback as well and just apply things on the fly =)
Not sure what tools you need, other than knowing stats progression and asking the person what they tend to play, and more importantly how they play those things.

[caravann]

SlightlyMobileTurret, on 24 September 2021 - 02:45 AM, said:

The classic 35 tonners - FS9, JR7, WLF are all good right now. Slow gunboats like the PNT, ADR, COU are also pretty good right now.

RVNs have always been in a weird spot, I'm not sure what, if anything, they need.

The Raven works well in maps with Raven because many times they'll avoid hitting their own Raven. If stealth was better the Raven could end up sitting next to their raven and then if none of them shut down the stealth they'll have to pick who Raven is their. In practice stealth shouldn't work at all if it didn't jam your own Tag designation.

[Dogstar]

MrMadguy, on 22 September 2021 - 08:06 PM, said:

Even I can do it with zero Light piloting skill. I would even say, that they're trivial to play. And it's 3rd reason, why I don't play them.

Well prove it then. Show us some videos of you totally dominating a match in a light mech.

You won't because you can't because lights are not OP because you're not as good as you think you are

[ScrapIron Prime]

Dogstar, on 24 September 2021 - 12:26 PM, said:

Well prove it then. Show us some videos of you totally dominating a match in a light mech.

You won't because you can't because lights are not OP because you're not as good as you think you are

We all get there at our own pace. That day when you look at yourself in the mirror... and finally realize that you're not all that. That... that was a rough day, and I would have been a lot better off if it had come a decade sooner.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Dogstar, on 24 September 2021 - 12:26 PM, said:

Well prove it then. Show us some videos of you totally dominating a match in a light mech.

Forget it. In a prior "PIR-1" is overpowered thread after seeing his general 0% Light piloting but making the same claims he's maling now I challenged him to buy a PIR-1 and do 10 consecutive matches (and only 10!) in that mech and always taking a sceenshot of the summary screen which he then was supposed to show the next month. He never did that either.

He just kept on babbling on how in August 2020 (the only month with a remotely noteworthy Light usage) he clearly showed that he was an Ace Light pilot in a ACH by showing out of the entirety of his 20 to 25 matches in a Light one single screenshot from a match in an ACH where he indeed managed to do quite some damage and kills.

Dogstar, on 24 September 2021 - 12:26 PM, said:

You won't because you can't because lights are not OP because you're not as good as you think you are

I'd go as far as to say that even if lights in general were extremely strong in general and some chassis truly in the realm of OP-ness he still wouldn't be able to do provide sufficent proof of either his skill or the OP-ness of the chassis in question. ~shrug~

[justcallme A S H]

PeppaPig, on 24 September 2021 - 12:46 AM, said:

LMAO - the resort to trying to stat shame, priceless . . . .

Yes I do know the stats are public knowledge, what isn't public knowledge is that my main account that sits in the top percentile each season and what you are looking at is the one my daughter shares with me when she wants to play; considering she is only 12, that's a pretty good KDR, so once again, your pathetic attempt to try and win an argument falls flat on its face

Not about stat shaming at all.

It is about verification of your claims/statement. So far your statement is completely bust so what you say cannot he taken with any accuracy.

Feel free to post your "high percentile" account name to allow verification of your claim. Although just like the many others before you who've made this claim - I know it'll never happen.

[Moldur]

No, but I think people in fast mechs need to slow the **** down instead of blaming their assaults for the team getting stretched across the map.