104 replies to this topic

[TENTACLE BOSS]

I was only able to start playing with friends for the first time in late 2020, because prior to returning to the game, you literally could not find matches if you queued with one other person. The game would force you into a separate queue with barely any players so solo play was the only reliable way to actually find matches. If I had friends playing at the same time as me, we knew it was a waste of time to try playing together. It was as a result of this pointless trying to encourage other friends to check the game out when the end result would be that you could never actually play with them, unless the extremely long group exclusive queue paired you up against some sweaty premade teams of four.

Not a good first experience for new players, and a horrendous co-operative experience. Whatever consequences exist of having groups in quickplay, the status quo is infinitely better than the experience we had before friends could reliably play together.

If you remove the ability to effectively find matches when playing with a friend, I'm probably just going to stop playing, because it will once again be ******* pointless trying to enjoy this game with friends. Please don't make that mistake.

Look, MWO is a smaller game, it doesn't have a massive community, and I enjoy playing with a friend or two primarily. It's not about being sweaty, I just prefer the game as a non-solo experience, and to do that I need the ability to actually be able to find players. I am willing to accept that I will occasionally go up against groups of more coordinated players in quickplay if it means I retain my ability to easily find matches when queuing with a friend.


These updates you are making this year are supposed to increase the longevity of the game, you are not going to achieve that by killing my ability to actually find matches with friends. Do not ruin my experience by reverting to the previous antisocial MWO experience where two people can sit queuing for literally an hour, because they are stuck into a separate minority queue that is almost exclusively populated by sweaty tryhard teams if anyone is even in the queue to begin with.

Edited by TENTACLE BOSS, 17 February 2021 - 04:18 AM.

[Darian DelFord]

This is a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation that PGI has completely created themselves.

If you put me and any of my old teammates in fleas, we will absolutely influence the match in a positive way for our team. There are many folks out there like this. Simply put two skilled pilots can turn a match if they are on comms (which most are), and lets not even get started on what a 4 man group can do in quickplay.

There are many reasons why this problem exists, the most important is simply a reduction in player base, which despite whatever PGI's line of the month is, is very noticeable. Unless they make sweeping changes which the players have been asking for for YEARS this is not going to change.

While I will not say that MWO is on its last leg, it is definitely on life support. This last patch is kinda proof of that, no real changes at all despite all the hype of the last 6 months.

[Willard Phule]

I agree, and I'll go so far as to say they should extend groups to full 12 man premades.

I mean, what's the point? The guys that put enough effort into forming a group are the only ones that are keeping PGI afloat financially anyway, and if winning is important, then it's important enough to join a group. Just like in FP. There's really no place for casual solos here anymore. It's time for them to join a group or move on to another game.

[VonBruinwald]

Willard Phule, on 17 February 2021 - 05:07 AM, said:

I agree, and I'll go so far as to say they should extend groups to full 12 man premades.

I mean, what's the point? The guys that put enough effort into forming a group are the only ones that are keeping PGI afloat financially anyway, and if winning is important, then it's important enough to join a group. Just like in FP. There's really no place for casual solos here anymore. It's time for them to join a group or move on to another game.

Problem is you'll drive off all the pugs and 12-mans will avoid each other because they can't farm stats. We saw this happen with FW.

That said, if you wanted to 12-mans enabled for T1 games only I could get onboard, you'd have to tweak the MM so if there's a group larger than a 4-man is present it will only places T1's in the match. Yes, you'd have to queue longer, but as a competitive 12-man I'm sure you'd rather wait for a balanced match up against a team of T1's than a boring seal clubbing.........

[John Bronco]

I'm sure they won't make a change unless some form of group queue is viable, such as the highly successful 8v8 test they ran last year, which was with 30% less population than today.

[Dogstar]

The thing is that it needs moderation of the maximum size of the group

Tier V - 2 man groups are ok
Tier IV - 4 man groups are ok
Tier III - 6 man groups are ok
Tier II - 8 man groups are ok
Tier 1 - 12 man groups are ok

There also needs to be a tonnage or mech class limit

This the 12 mans get challenged by skilled players and tier V don't get farmed

Overall I think it's better to have one big queue but it needs moderation to prevent abuse

Even simpler would be

Tier 1 - 12 man groups
Tier 2-3 - 4 man groups
Tier 4-5 - 2 man groups

Edited by Dogstar, 17 February 2021 - 06:05 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

Dogstar, on 17 February 2021 - 06:03 AM, said:

Even simpler would be

Tier 1 - 12 man groups
Tier 2-3 - 4 man groups
Tier 4-5 - 2 man groups

Make sense but it makes it difficult to introduce more than one friend as a time to the game at the same time.

Another way of doing it

T1 - 8 players per team - maximum group size of 8 (no limits on numbers of groups in a match)
T2->5 - 12 players per team - maximum group size of 4 (maximum of 4 group player on a team)

T1 - is all about being competitive, with a group limit of 8 it reduces the force multiplier of the group vs pugs (a lesson learned from scouting mode) and with the team size reduced it makes gameplay more tactical and less of a dog-pile (ie nascar).

The only concession is we need to lock games with groups of more than 4 to T1 only, which will increase wait times. But it's a fair price to play for a "balanced" match.

If people want to go full 12-man there's always FW and private lobbies. If a 12-man is planning to fight a 12-man (and why wouldn't they) it's going to take scheduling anyway so a private lobby is perfect. It's not like they have any interest in clubbing seals now do they.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 17 February 2021 - 06:23 AM.

[Gagis]

BlaizerP, on 17 February 2021 - 05:51 AM, said:

I'm sure they won't make a change unless some form of group queue is viable, such as the highly successful 8v8 test they ran last year, which was with 30% less population than today.

And if they make it possible for "groups of 1" to launch into that queue too, we have a winning recipe.

[RickySpanish]

Dogstar, on 17 February 2021 - 06:03 AM, said:

The thing is that it needs moderation of the maximum size of the group

Tier V - 2 man groups are ok
Tier IV - 4 man groups are ok
Tier III - 6 man groups are ok
Tier II - 8 man groups are ok
Tier 1 - 12 man groups are ok

There also needs to be a tonnage or mech class limit

This the 12 mans get challenged by skilled players and tier V don't get farmed

Overall I think it's better to have one big queue but it needs moderation to prevent abuse

Even simpler would be

Tier 1 - 12 man groups
Tier 2-3 - 4 man groups
Tier 4-5 - 2 man groups

The ability of groups to influence match outcome doesn't change with tier. Nothing is going to fix the current situation because the match maker does not balance teams effectively once 24 players have been found. Those 24 could all be in the same tier, but tiers offer too much separation in skill.

[Darian DelFord]

Do you have any idea what would happen if any group larger than 4 got put up against 12 PUGS?

[Wolfos31]

Willard Phule, on 17 February 2021 - 05:07 AM, said:

I agree, and I'll go so far as to say they should extend groups to full 12 man premades.

I mean, what's the point? The guys that put enough effort into forming a group are the only ones that are keeping PGI afloat financially anyway, and if winning is important, then it's important enough to join a group. Just like in FP. There's really no place for casual solos here anymore. It's time for them to join a group or move on to another game.

Speaking as someone who plays this game about half the time solo I think this is a pretty dismissive attitude to take. I've been a proponent of keeping soup queue. So on that basis I suppose I shouldn't care if I'm up against a premade 12 man team. But acting as though solo players should just move on ignores the fact that there really are no other mech combat games that come close to MWO in terms of customization and quality. Not to mention that MWO is the only one based on the BTech universe.

We want MWO to appeal to BTech fans as well as regular multiplayer gamers that just enjoy MWO's unique offering without much caring about the lore. I think ensuring that solo players can still compete and have fun is an important consideration. It's a small population so I know there are challenges to implementation but I don't think "hey, solo players, join a group or move on" is going to do any favors to the population here.

[Willard Phule]

VonBruinwald, on 17 February 2021 - 05:21 AM, said:

Problem is you'll drive off all the pugs and 12-mans will avoid each other because they can't farm stats. We saw this happen with FW.

That said, if you wanted to 12-mans enabled for T1 games only I could get onboard, you'd have to tweak the MM so if there's a group larger than a 4-man is present it will only places T1's in the match. Yes, you'd have to queue longer, but as a competitive 12-man I'm sure you'd rather wait for a balanced match up against a team of T1's than a boring seal clubbing.........

Driving off the casual players is obviously PGI's strategy, so I fail to see why it's such a big deal. Like I said, the "pugs" need to either group up or go find another game. Simple as that.

The problem with your idea of 12 man teams in T1 matches is that the matchmaker doesn't take a premade group's PSR into any kind of consideration. There's no guarantee that they'd end up in T1 only matches. Again, like it matters.

Look, it's really simple. If you're not part of a premade group, then your only purpose in the match is to be target practice for the more important players. Accept it.

Wolfos31, on 17 February 2021 - 06:55 AM, said:

Speaking as someone who plays this game about half the time solo I think this is a pretty dismissive attitude to take. I've been a proponent of keeping soup queue. So on that basis I suppose I shouldn't care if I'm up against a premade 12 man team. But acting as though solo players should just move on ignores the fact that there really are no other mech combat games that come close to MWO in terms of customization and quality. Not to mention that MWO is the only one based on the BTech universe.

We want MWO to appeal to BTech fans as well as regular multiplayer gamers that just enjoy MWO's unique offering without much caring about the lore. I think ensuring that solo players can still compete and have fun is an important consideration. It's a small population so I know there are challenges to implementation but I don't think "hey, solo players, join a group or move on" is going to do any favors to the population here.

Again, you're ignoring the fact that this is how PGI designed it. They wanted this. Our opinion, as casual solos, doesn't matter at all. And, yes, I'm all for them forcing players from the game. The sooner MW:O dies, the sooner a competent company can get the license.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Willard is using the term "facts" again... while talking about things no facts have been released about. So take this as usual with a tablespoon of salt.

[Wolfos31]

Gagis, on 17 February 2021 - 06:40 AM, said:

And if they make it possible for "groups of 1" to launch into that queue too, we have a winning recipe.

I think this might actually be a good way to go. Drop teams down to 8v8, separate the queue, but allow solos to "queue as a group". If solos want to be in a match with groups (and maybe find matches faster) more power to them. Smaller match size will help with low population. Then the solo queue gives solos a place to play with a reasonably level playing field without having to worry about groups.

Of course as soon as that change is made you'll have forum topics on "solo players in group queue are throwing matches." No way to make everyone happy.

[Faithsfall]

Willard Phule, on 17 February 2021 - 07:16 AM, said:

Driving off the casual players is obviously PGI's strategy, so I fail to see why it's such a big deal. Like I said, the "pugs" need to either group up or go find another game. Simple as that.

The problem with your idea of 12 man teams in T1 matches is that the matchmaker doesn't take a premade group's PSR into any kind of consideration. There's no guarantee that they'd end up in T1 only matches. Again, like it matters.

Look, it's really simple. If you're not part of a premade group, then your only purpose in the match is to be target practice for the more important players. Accept it.



Again, you're ignoring the fact that this is how PGI designed it. They wanted this. Our opinion, as casual solos, doesn't matter at all. And, yes, I'm all for them forcing players from the game. The sooner MW:O dies, the sooner a competent company can get the license.

I presume you are the same player that starts every match with a derogatory comment, good to see you are keeping it up in the forums........

Look I know that things aren't great but it's good to see things are actually moving forward if slowly, MW will never have a huge fanbase (well until a AAA movie trilogy comes out that sells a billion each movie). But the events have mostly been fun and I can get my stompy mech fix.

The only advice I can give you which seems to be the same advice you have been giving out in the forums, if you are really getting that pissed off with the game and it has got to the point where you are spitting out vitriol ingame and on the forums maybe have a break and hope there are enough changes to interest you in the future.

[II Marauder II]

Well, the obvious solution that apparently nobody noticed...

Keep the mixed queue with either 4 or 3 players as it is now, BUT include groups in matchmaker with adjusted score based on ELO and Tonnage.

you want to play 4 spiders with your friends? You can, matchmaker adjusts and you dont have to feel bad for doing it!

I feel pushing for something like this is much better than the extreme position of "Kill the queue!", "Burn the Witch!", etc.

Edited by II Marauder II, 17 February 2021 - 08:59 AM.

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

Quote

the status quo is infinitely better than the experience we had before friends could reliably play together.

No it isn't.

II Marauder II, on 17 February 2021 - 08:54 AM, said:

you want to play 4 spiders with your friends? You can, matchmaker adjusts and you dont have to feel bad for doing it!

This would be weighted massively in favour of better players, not even top tier comp players just good.

Edited by Monke-, 17 February 2021 - 09:05 AM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

VonBruinwald, on 17 February 2021 - 05:21 AM, said:

Problem is you'll drive off all the pugs and 12-mans will avoid each other because they can't farm stats. We saw this happen with FW.

That said, if you wanted to 12-mans enabled for T1 games only I could get onboard, you'd have to tweak the MM so if there's a group larger than a 4-man is present it will only places T1's in the match. Yes, you'd have to queue longer, but as a competitive 12-man I'm sure you'd rather wait for a balanced match up against a team of T1's than a boring seal clubbing.........

What this man said. They say they want 12v12 but they really don't. Every time we say make FP the group cue there are billion excuses as to why not

Edited by SirSmokes, 17 February 2021 - 09:08 AM.

[Wolfos31]

II Marauder II, on 17 February 2021 - 08:54 AM, said:

Well, the obvious solution that apparently nobody noticed...

Keep the mixed queue with either 4 or 3 players as it is now, BUT include groups in matchmaker with adjusted score based on ELO and Tonnage.

you want to play 4 spiders with your friends? You can, matchmaker adjusts and you dont have to feel bad for doing it!

I feel pushing for something like this is much better than the extreme position of "Kill the queue!", "Burn the Witch!", etc.

The MM already averages PSR across the players in a group... right? I'd hope so!

If a tier 5 & tier 3 player form a 2 man group I'd hope that group is considered "tier 4" and it tries to find matches appropriately.

[II Marauder II]

Monke-, on 17 February 2021 - 09:04 AM, said:

This would be weighted massively in favour of better players, not even top tier comp players just good.

OK, weight that into the matchmaker.

And i´m talking about a better matchmaker sistem, not what we have now.

Edited by II Marauder II, 17 February 2021 - 09:08 AM.