143 replies to this topic

[pattonesque]

Far Reach, on 04 October 2021 - 06:58 AM, said:

Well, your not helping here. It feels like you are cornering people, seeing how they'll react when pressed. Heinous behavior tbh.
This is how atrocities start, once you're certain the other side is just hiding their hate, once you insist.
You become no better than that which you pretend to hunt.

I don't think you're hiding it. You're trying to hide it but failing pretty badly.

I'll ask you this heinous question again, then, which you ignored: what about trans people leads you to insist that they change themselves to suit your whims, rather than merely accepting them for what they are?

[Dogmeat1]

TENTACLE BOSS, on 04 October 2021 - 06:55 AM, said:

I'm not the guy you're replying to but I dislike cancel culture as well. I think PGI should have an absolute standard, where any political cause can be advocated for, or none can be advocated for. Consistency, equal treatment, expression for everybody or nobody. No in-betweens. You agree, right?



If you don't want him to hate them, then you should maybe stop othering him, and insisting that he must. What that does is drive people away from your worldviews, and into the company of your enemies.

Taken directly from mechwarrior's code of conduct;

Engaging in any of the following actions while using any PGI services is forbidden:

• Engaging in intimidation tactics or aggravation of other individuals or groups of individuals.
  
• Referring insultingly to or personally attacking other individuals based on gender, race, religion, age, nation, or any other characteristic or alignment regarding a group of individuals.
  
• Alluding to symbols or phrases of racial, ethnic, national, political, or religious hatred.

As long as you are not preaching hate for any particular identity groups, whether they be white, black, straight, gay, trans, or whatever, then you should be fine.

Edited by Dogmeat1, 04 October 2021 - 07:01 AM.

[TENTACLE BOSS]

Dogmeat1, on 04 October 2021 - 07:00 AM, said:

Taken directly from mechwarrior's code of conduct; Engaging in any of the following actions while using any PGI services is forbidden:

• Engaging in intimidation tactics or aggravation of other individuals or groups of individuals.
• Referring insultingly to or personally attacking other individuals based on gender, race, religion, age, nation, or any other characteristic or alignment regarding a group of individuals.
• Alluding to symbols or phrases of racial, ethnic, national, political, or religious hatred.

As long as you are not preaching hate for any particular identity groups, whether they be white, black, straight, gay, trans, or whatever, then you should be fine.

That didn't really answer my question.

[Far Reach]

pattonesque, on 04 October 2021 - 07:00 AM, said:

I don't think you're hiding it. You're trying to hide it but failing pretty badly.

I'll ask you this heinous question again, then, which you ignored: what about trans people leads you to insist that they change themselves to suit your whims, rather than merely accepting them for what they are?

You are pathetic.

[pattonesque]

Far Reach, on 04 October 2021 - 07:04 AM, said:

You are pathetic.

Honestly, what's the harm in answering the question? You said that trans folks should do an awful lot of things to change themselves. Why do you believe this to be necessary?

[Far Reach]

pattonesque, on 04 October 2021 - 07:05 AM, said:

Honestly, what's the harm in answering the question? You said that trans folks should do an awful lot of things to change themselves. Why do you believe this to be necessary?

I think this qualifies as harassment!

[pattonesque]

Far Reach, on 04 October 2021 - 07:06 AM, said:

I think this qualifies as harassment!

If you don't want to answer the question, that's fine. But it's just more evidence that you don't want to express what you actually believe without equivocation. Which is, well, something.

[Far Reach]

pattonesque, on 04 October 2021 - 07:08 AM, said:

If you don't want to answer the question, that's fine. But it's just more evidence that you don't want to express what you actually believe without equivocation. Which is, well, something.

I've already made my report, I'm sure your added jabs will help the admin decide.

[CoronaStrider]

PGI was completely in the wrong to announce this apology. You give an inch to people who chase offense, they will not stop demanding. Politics doesn't belong here and neither does this.

[Der Kopfsammler]

I'll just leave this here. PGI should've never apologised at least publicly to this, it stirred up this old shaite cauldron in compliance to the cancel culture garbage. You should have gone full "Warhorse Studios" mode instead.

[Beet Wagon]

It's certainly interesting seeing a quote like that deployed in defense of the kinds of people who believe that being myself makes me "deluded" or who are posting "get woke go broke" at a company because they might have to be reminded that trans people exist occasionally. I'll grant you that.

[ccrider]

People who never post on the forums have suddenly exponentially added to their post counts simply to belittle trans people. That's sad as ****. Trans people aren't asking for special privileges or extra rights, they just want to be able to exist with the SAME rights as a hetero, cisgendered person. That's not an unreasonable request. But for some people, if a group is different they should hide who they are, be happy they are allowed to live even if they have diminished rights and just be quiet? Does that sound equal? If trans people were treated equally there wouldn't even be a discussion. If homosexual people were treated equally, there wouldn't be a discussion. If every one of your neighbors transitioned tomorrow, your life wouldn't change one bit. So move on; stop spewing ******** to cover the fact that someone's existence offends you and makes you, personally, uncomfortable. I go to anime conventions and am part of the cosplay community and there is very little discussion there about anyone's identity because everyone is allowed to cosplay whoever they eant, regardless of sex or color or orientation. The closest we get to politics is signs saying "use the bathroom your comfortable with." No one gets assaulted, no one's feelings are hurt. Everyone just hangs out enjoying their fandom as a whole. It's you "I dont believe in trans people having rights" people who are the ones making this political and acting like ********. Get a ******* life.

[Surn]

Odins Steed, on 03 October 2021 - 09:24 PM, said:

This would seem more sincere and less like damage control if PGI's president wasn't retweeting confederate flag decals.

I disagree that the confederate battle flag is a symbol of hate.

While I am not a southerner, many of us in this game have studied military history and the American Civil War was much more complex than a low resolution view of history implies.

"The National Banking Act of 1863 established a national banking system and a uniform national currency. Prior to that States and local banks represented the banking system. The first $1 bill was issued in 1862 as a Legal Tender Note with a portrait of Salmon P. Chase, the Treasury Secretary under President Abraham Lincoln." http://www.onedollar...rg/history.html

Even today, many of us look for a decentralized banking system to empower individuals. You may not know that the reserve requirements for Banks in the US is now $0. "As announced on March 15, 2020, the Board reduced reserve requirement ratios to zero percent effective March 26, 2020. This action eliminated reserve requirements for all depository institutions." https://www.federalr.../reservereq.htm

While today it is common to believe the American Civil War was about slavery, many people have a much deeper understanding due to their cultural and historical knowledge.

I ask you not to be ruled by conformance and virtue signalling. Truth is not found in either of those places. Social pressure to feel certain ways is fraught with lies, assumptions, lack of understanding and lack of compassion.

When social pressure and society asks you to hate another human being, remember hating evil requires that you are certain what is evil. It is a dangerous road to dehumanize others based on symbols and identities that you may not truly understand.

We are facing a tyrannical world today but all tyranny is built on lies. The most powerful thing we can do is to refuse to allow lies to live through us as individuals. Truth is the virtue.

Ask yourself;
Is someone displaying a confederate battle flag to promote slavery or racism?
Am I doing this for selfish reasons that might blind me?

[Crash]

Surn, on 04 October 2021 - 07:48 AM, said:

I disagree that the confederate battle flag is a symbol of hate.

This is the worst take of all time. Pick a different flag if you wanna protest banks or whatever instead of recycling one that's been used by actual racists for generations.

[Thorqemada]

Ok, i dont feel offended by any of the names though i understand it needs to be investigated what the motivations for the naming were - if there is good intent behind the naming and nothing that may be misunderstood.

Personally i like the name including "Fight" more as it imho is closer to the soul of the game that is about "fighting" - it suits the purpose best i guess.

Why there is now an official apology necessary that i can only assume and will thus abstain from doing so.

I only think if questions arise adult people can and should ask other adult pople these questions, maybe explain why these questions arise, without the danger of repercussion, and get heard with no assumption of an underlying bad intent bcs otherwise this world has to stop to comunicate at all.

Especially in a game were pople of different language background have to communicate to each other and words may translate into words but the meaning may get lost...

That is why i think the general assumption should be that there is good intent in every communication until proven otherwise!


Stay safe and shoot sharp!

Edited by Thorqemada, 04 October 2021 - 08:10 AM.

[Beet Wagon]

Confederate Vice President Alexander H. Stephens made it pretty clear in 1861, actually:

Quote

The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the "storm came and the wind blew."

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the n***o is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

Edited by Beet Wagon, 04 October 2021 - 07:57 AM.

[KelethDragon]

Thank you PGI.

[Vite Ramen]

It's the wrong flag, anyway. The final flag of the Confederacy was all white.

[Commoners]

Surn, on 04 October 2021 - 07:48 AM, said:

I disagree that the confederate battle flag is a symbol of hate.

While I am not a southerner, many of us in this game have studied military history and the American Civil War was much more complex than a low resolution view of history implies.

"The National Banking Act of 1863 established a national banking system and a uniform national currency. Prior to that States and local banks represented the banking system. The first $1 bill was issued in 1862 as a Legal Tender Note with a portrait of Salmon P. Chase, the Treasury Secretary under President Abraham Lincoln." http://www.onedollar...rg/history.html

Even today, many of us look for a decentralized banking system to empower individuals. You may not know that the reserve requirements for Banks in the US is now $0. "As announced on March 15, 2020, the Board reduced reserve requirement ratios to zero percent effective March 26, 2020. This action eliminated reserve requirements for all depository institutions." https://www.federalr.../reservereq.htm

While today it is common to believe the American Civil War was about slavery, many people have a much deeper understanding due to their cultural and historical knowledge.

I ask you not to be ruled by conformance and virtue signalling. Truth is not found in either of those places. Social pressure to feel certain ways is fraught with lies, assumptions, lack of understanding and lack of compassion.

When social pressure and society asks you to hate another human being, remember hating evil requires that you are certain what is evil. It is a dangerous road to dehumanize others based on symbols and identities that you may not truly understand.

We are facing a tyrannical world today but all tyranny is built on lies. The most powerful thing we can do is to refuse to allow lies to live through us as individuals. Truth is the virtue.

Ask yourself;
Is someone displaying a confederate battle flag to promote slavery or racism?
Am I doing this for selfish reasons that might blind me?

I am a southernor and have lived in the south and have studied civil history as well as military history.

Historically the confederate battle flag fizzled in use once the rebellion was ended. It started to become prominent again in 1948 when it was used as a symbol by the dixiecrats whose main platforms in the election were based on maintaining the racial status quota in the south and the support of segregation.

It's not a coincidence that there was a second peak in confederate general statues and memorials as a response to the civil rights movement in the late 50s and early 60s.

It's also not a coincidence that it's been coopted and flown very prominently by white supremacist groups in the U.S.

I'll also expand a bit: Virtue signalling is done without genuine intent behind and/or belief in what is said. It's pretty obnoxious accusation to say that this is all being written out for brownie points or some ****.

Edited by Commoners, 04 October 2021 - 08:13 AM.

[Aedryel]

And so it came to pass woke snowflakes invaded MWO.