143 replies to this topic

[Brauer]

Surn, on 04 October 2021 - 07:48 AM, said:

I disagree that the confederate battle flag is a symbol of hate.

While I am not a southerner, many of us in this game have studied military history and the American Civil War was much more complex than a low resolution view of history implies.

"The National Banking Act of 1863 established a national banking system and a uniform national currency. Prior to that States and local banks represented the banking system. The first $1 bill was issued in 1862 as a Legal Tender Note with a portrait of Salmon P. Chase, the Treasury Secretary under President Abraham Lincoln." http://www.onedollar...rg/history.html

Even today, many of us look for a decentralized banking system to empower individuals. You may not know that the reserve requirements for Banks in the US is now $0. "As announced on March 15, 2020, the Board reduced reserve requirement ratios to zero percent effective March 26, 2020. This action eliminated reserve requirements for all depository institutions." https://www.federalr.../reservereq.htm

While today it is common to believe the American Civil War was about slavery, many people have a much deeper understanding due to their cultural and historical knowledge.

I ask you not to be ruled by conformance and virtue signalling. Truth is not found in either of those places. Social pressure to feel certain ways is fraught with lies, assumptions, lack of understanding and lack of compassion.

When social pressure and society asks you to hate another human being, remember hating evil requires that you are certain what is evil. It is a dangerous road to dehumanize others based on symbols and identities that you may not truly understand.

We are facing a tyrannical world today but all tyranny is built on lies. The most powerful thing we can do is to refuse to allow lies to live through us as individuals. Truth is the virtue.

Ask yourself;
Is someone displaying a confederate battle flag to promote slavery or racism?
Am I doing this for selfish reasons that might blind me?

Many of the Southern states and the CSA literally said the secession and the war was about slavery.

[pattonesque]

Brauer, on 04 October 2021 - 08:13 AM, said:

Many of the Southern states and the CSA literally said the secession and the war was about slavery.

yeah but who are you going to believe, the *checks notes* actual vice president of the Confederacy?

[Commoners]

The war being about slavery also happens to be one of the reasons why there was no European intervention during the war, when the rebels explicitly were expecting support from Europe because of their supply of cotton.

The British had their cotton sourced from India, and viewed slavery as a grotesque, abominable thing. The French had a similar outlook on the practice despite their inability to source cotton and their need for it as a strategic resource.

The rebellion was so intertwined with slavery that the French wouldn't even ally with them to spite the British, which is a pretty damning statement for French and British relations of the time.

[KelethDragon]

Aedryel, on 04 October 2021 - 08:09 AM, said:

And so it came to pass woke snowflakes invaded MWO.

Right, that's why many of us are founder's... Just, very late to the party. The latest.

[Brauer]

pattonesque, on 04 October 2021 - 08:15 AM, said:

yeah but who are you going to believe, the *checks notes* actual vice president of the Confederacy?

Well he's only one source, but considering the governments of Texas, Alabama, Louisiana, South Carolina, and Mississippi (among others) made similar statements I think it's pretty well established.

[Catra Lanis]

Der Kopfsammler, on 04 October 2021 - 07:18 AM, said:

I'll just leave this here. PGI should've never apologised at least publicly to this, it stirred up this old shaite cauldron in compliance to the cancel culture garbage. You should have gone full "Warhorse Studios" mode instead.

Yeah, it'll never end. I'm so tired of this. They say it's not about special treatment but it is. If it wasn't they'd just keep shooting robots which is why we're here, well most of us anyway. I'm asian and if a unit wants to call itself "WhiteSupremacistHillHumpingAntiSlantEyedBanjoBastards" I don't care.

[Chadoken]

The people trying to shut this down as a 'political issue' sure are making their politics clear huh.

Trans people having the right to visably exist isn't politics.

Edited by Nickiepoo, 04 October 2021 - 08:36 AM.

[Vite Ramen]

People who say they don't care sure seem to care a lot

[A21B]

although you say its not political, you just made it poitical

[pattonesque]

It’s interesting that people liken “acknowledging trans people exist and respecting that fact” to being threatened with death.

[Thorqemada]

udoshi, on 04 October 2021 - 01:20 AM, said:

Edit: While we're on the subject of gay rights, which of your devs stated that there would never be a hot pink in the game because it was too girly for mechs? Russ?
Fix that too, please. Garish as can be. All I want for christmas is a hot pink atlas.

That confuses me - i see pink in the game due to watching Twitch and YT all the time:
Like does NGNGTV then play with pink hair in a mech that shows pink colours?
And dont we have Sarahs Jenner or maybe i misunderstand girly?

Plx explain

Edited by Thorqemada, 04 October 2021 - 08:44 AM.

[ENDMYSUFFERING]

I applaud PGI for coming to stand with overwhelming scientific and academic consensus on this issue. I'm assuming they would similarly value the fact that the Earth is round, so I see nothing wrong with their acknowledging other facts of our existence in a similar manner.

I legitimately didn't expect this, so I'm pleasantly surprised with the outcome, and I hope moderation in MWO can improve across the board in the future.

[McGoat]

ENDMYSUFFERING, on 04 October 2021 - 08:44 AM, said:

I legitimately didn't expect this, so I'm pleasantly surprised with the outcome, and I hope moderation in MWO can improve across the board in the future.

There are a fair many complaints about the moderator that made these decisions, nothing ever done about it and I doubt anything will change outside of this particular instance.

[Beet Wagon]

pattonesque, on 04 October 2021 - 08:36 AM, said:

It’s interesting that people liken “acknowledging trans people exist and respecting that fact” to being threatened with death.

Totally unrelated, no idea why I thought of it just now, but one fun thing about being trans is that in 34 states someone who murders a trans person because they are trans can use what's known as the "trans panic defense" which basically says that learning that the victim didn't comply with the murderer's perception of their gender was so offensive or frightening that it caused them to murder the trans person out of either self defense or temporary insanity.

Like I said, not sure why it just popped up in my mind, but anyway my sympathy goes out to all of you who feel you are being told "comply or die" because you might have to see the phrase "trans rights" at the start of a game some time.

[pattonesque]

Beet Wagon, on 04 October 2021 - 08:50 AM, said:

Totally unrelated, no idea why I thought of it just now, but one fun thing about being trans is that in 34 states someone who murders a trans person because they are trans can use what's known as the "trans panic defense" which basically says that learning that the victim didn't comply with the murderer's perception of their gender was so offensive or frightening that it caused them to murder the trans person out of either self defense or temporary insanity.

Like I said, not sure why it just popped up in my mind, but anyway my sympathy goes out to all of you who feel you are being told "comply or die" because you might have to see the phrase "trans rights" at the start of a game some time.

weird, this seems like an actual threat to life. I bet what those other folks are posting about must be much worse!

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Beet Wagon, on 04 October 2021 - 08:50 AM, said:

Totally unrelated, no idea why I thought of it just now, but one fun thing about being trans is that in 34 states someone who murders a trans person because they are trans can use what's known as the "trans panic defense" which basically says that learning that the victim didn't comply with the murderer's perception of their gender was so offensive or frightening that it caused them to murder the trans person out of either self defense or temporary insanity.

Like I said, not sure why it just popped up in my mind, but anyway my sympathy goes out to all of you who feel you are being told "comply or die" because you might have to see the phrase "trans rights" at the start of a game some time.

Yeah, Texas being one of the most well known of these states.

What's funny, is trans people don't want harm to come to their haters, that's the crazy part, we just generally want to be acknowledged that we exist, are valid, and not want to be KILLED FOR LITERALLY EXISTING. By trying to force us back into the closet, you only make trans people have to fight harder for acceptance. That's why such a pushback happened over GM:P's handling of the situation, as well as a situation that happened over at Sarna.net regarding their moderation team and a single moderator as well.

You don't have to like trans people, no one's forcing you to like them, even if your reason for dislike makes little sense. You can dislike people for a variety of reasons, but treating their existance as a political issue, is where the insanity sits.

And on the matter of this being a "Woke" situation... well, maybe it is time a few of you woke up, hmm?

a positive step forward by PGI that frankly, never should have had to happen.

[Malefectra]

Far Reach, on 04 October 2021 - 06:45 AM, said:

You're making an excellent case for me to start hating them. And I get the feeling that's the whole purpose of this charade.

If trans folks had to endure allies like you, I'd rather be ******* hated.

[ENDMYSUFFERING]

McGoat, on 04 October 2021 - 08:49 AM, said:

There are a fair many complaints about the moderator that made these decisions, nothing ever done about it and I doubt anything will change outside of this particular instance.

Oh, I agree entirely. I have my doubts that any long term benefit will come from this, but I'm dumb enough to keep giving PGI a chance after playing MWO for this long, so if improvement doesn't happen then I'll continue expressing my displeasure.

Part of the reason I'm glad this blew up is because I can't recall any other times something has gotten this much attention regarding MWO's moderation, certainly not any recent ones that got a response on the main page of the site from PGI themselves, so I'm hoping the scale of things might help push them in the right direction.

[shameless]

ccrider, on 04 October 2021 - 06:07 AM, said:

Jesus people, instead of bitching about team names and chromosomes and whatever other ******** you pull off some men's rights, anti-woke website, why don't you just STFU and shoot robots? You claim you want politics to be left out yet here you ******* are, shouting your political/anti-trans viewpoints into the faces of everyone. You know you can shut off all chat and unit tags aren't long enough to get a full name in, right? Your ACTIVELY going out of your way to be offended about someone else's situation. Look up what it takes to transition, all the obstacles put in the way by the government's of various states, church groups demonizing their existence and then try to figure out why people feel the need to fight for their rights. Christ, you all sound so goddam sad the way you can't accept a person's right to exist without it being a threat to your fragile viewpoint. FFS, if you gotta cry about it, there are tons of websites filled with people like you where you can circle jerk your intolerant viewpoints together without any dissent.

To the people who are supportive of anyone being able to join the community, regardless of sex, sexual orientation or anything else, good on you. 07

I logged in just to like this post.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

ENDMYSUFFERING, on 04 October 2021 - 09:02 AM, said:

Oh, I agree entirely. I have my doubts that any long term benefit will come from this, but I'm dumb enough to keep giving PGI a chance after playing MWO for this long, so if improvement doesn't happen then I'll continue expressing my displeasure.

Part of the reason I'm glad this blew up is because I can't recall any other times something has gotten this much attention regarding MWO's moderation, certainly not any recent ones that got a response on the main page of the site from PGI themselves, so I'm hoping the scale of things might help push them in the right direction.

I think the last time anything like this blew up was around the same time as the blitzchung/blizzard hearthstone debacle, so like, that tangentally got pulled over here mostly for meme's, and if I remember correctly some actions were taken in support hongkong and all that... but I can't remember exactly. But yeah you're right, nothing's quite hit this level of pushback. Which honestly, warms my heart, seeing how small a minority the haters truly are.