143 replies to this topic

[trans catgirl]

Kaio-Kerensky x10, on 03 October 2021 - 11:21 PM, said:

dumb that it went this far but i'm glad alpaca and trans catgirl and anyone else whose accounts got messed with are being set right

for the record my account wasn't messed with outside of the daily message I send to support about bigots spouting tranphobic stuff at me in chat, but. That's only PGI's problem momentarily and they handle that actually okay.

[FionaDeer]

Glad this decision was reversed.

[Echidna]

Adding my two cents to this I guess as the trans woman who's been with KDCM the longest (and since beta for that matter) - I've always had overall faith in the community and that's definitely been proven here, it's kinda heartwarming in a roundabout way seeing how everyone got together about this with relatively little in the way of trashy comments thrown at us for it. To an outsider it might not seem like a lot, but this has been pretty stressful for us. It sucked to feel like we were gonna start all getting handed suspensions and warnings for just being proud of our transness in a game we all play so often.

To PGI, I'd like to assume the vast majority had no idea this happened and are genuine about wanting to avoid this in the future, but please keep a closer eye on your moderators when it comes to this stuff. There's nothing hot-button about inclusivity. I've recommended both MWO and MW5 to several friends of mine - many of them trans - over the years, and I hope I can feel confident continuing to do so.

[uwuziel]

I know yall are in a catch 22 right now, but you gotta understand its hard to say if you actually mean any of this when one of your devs sticks the confederate flag on several of their mechs in the name of General Lee

[The6thMessenger]

Yikes this trainwreck. It's dumb, both the act of censorship, and the apology that is nothing more than damage control. I mean honestly, we've seen these apologies before. It's like a religion at this point. Watch, I might get banned just for pointing reasonable things out.

Politics is inherently divisive, that is not what you want in the game. But because of what you did, this is what you got. It's blood on the water, and they are sharks. Mobs aren't going to stop, you gave an inch and they demand a mile. I mean look at them arguing about the confederate flag on the forum now.

So what if Russ has confederate flag up? Nevermind his freedom to do so, but even if he was wrong, we don't have to attribute that to PGI as a company as a whole. We really can't just hold people as an individuals accountable? I still hate these guys for the Epic Exclusivity, why are you making me defend them?

You shouldn't have posted this, and just privately apologized.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 04 October 2021 - 12:34 AM.

[PocketYoda]

Does it matter, seriously... People will be offended by anything? I'm offended by ASH daily should we exclude ASH now? No! just deal people... wow.

[ENOVA]

I don’t understand, what would have happened if PGI had not apologized in public? If the moderation of the name was wrong step, then you can simply name it back and apologize to that paticular team, as moderation usually works. Why to be trasns-friendly is so important, I mean - to shout it out to the whole community?
Yes, that was damage control, but why make it so special case and write post about it? I'm just tired that they shove me in the face with this modern agenda from all sides. Even in a game about mechs from 3050.

Edited by ENOVA, 04 October 2021 - 12:30 AM.

[Commoners]

For those of you who are going "Do trans people even face problems?" or "Why are politics getting involved in my mechwarrior?" I encourage you to go look at an example of the kind of bile that gets spouted at our trans peers on a daily basis with the twitter thread about this announcement.

https://twitter.com/...893423366930435

Bigots love unmoderated places where they can bully people for being different, and actively look for spaces to fill where they can do it freely. The "I don't care" people in those threads are kind of an anomaly because why are they posting if they really don't care, but the people oozing about it are an example of what's actively in this community as it stands. That's the kind of **** that we don't want to deal with in allchat or in voice chat in the games.

MechaGnome, on 04 October 2021 - 12:19 AM, said:

Does it matter, seriously... People will be offended by anything? I'm offended by ASH daily should we exclude ASH now? No! just deal people... wow.

Yeah, you're right. People shouldn't have been offended or cared about someone saying "Trans rights" before every match, or comp teams having the names "Trans Rights" or "Trans Fights" as part of their team names. It's really shows how snowflakey and sensitive some people are that they're offended by those things existing in the game space, because trans people existing or supporting their existence isn't a political statement.

The6thMessenger, on 04 October 2021 - 12:17 AM, said:

So what if Russ has confederate flag up? Nevermind his freedom to do so, but even if he was wrong, we don't have to attribute that to PGI as a company as a whole. We really can't just hold people as an individuals accountable? I still hate these guys for the Epic Exclusivity, why are you making me defend them?

Supporting a secessionist state whose primary reason for seceding from the U.S. was the right to slavery and flying its banner in support of a reemergence of its secession IS a political statement. That's why people are discussing the guy (who in his twitter profile explicitly says he is a Texas secessionist) mounting a confederate banner on his mech through the decal system, and are questioning why Russ is retweeting an explicit political statement like that.

It'd be like if I started mounting antigovernment/antivax screeds onto the back of my mech and went "Hey @mwof2p i'm glad I can mount up in my antifaucimobile to spread the word about the devil's shot and how the cia are spreading 5g microchips to make everyone gay communists" and getting a like from one of PGI's executives. It'd be really weird and I'm pretty sure people would be questioning that too, and for good reasons.

ENOVA, on 04 October 2021 - 12:30 AM, said:

I don’t understand, what would have happened if PGI had not apologized in public? If the moderation of the name was wrong step, then you can simply name it back and apologize to that paticular team, as moderation usually works. Why to be trasns-friendly is so important, I mean - to shout it out to the whole community?
Yes, that was damage control, but why make it so special case and write post about it? I'm just tired that they shove me in the face with this modern agenda from all sides. Even in a game about mechs from 3050.

Did you get upset when they made their lgbtq+ support tweet? It's because people want to know if they have an internally consistent policy, and this announcement was them saying that they're maintaining it as their norm and that the moderation was an abnormality from their usual stance that has been reversed to clear any muddying of the waters.

Edited by Commoners, 04 October 2021 - 12:49 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Commoners, on 04 October 2021 - 12:36 AM, said:

Supporting a secessionist state whose primary reason for seceding from the U.S. was the right to slavery and flying its banner in support of a reemergence of its secession IS a political statement. That's why people are discussing the guy (who in his twitter profile explicitly says he is a Texas secessionist) mounting a confederate banner on his mech through the decal system, and are questioning why Russ is retweeting an explicit political statement like that.

*scratches head* So tweet back.

It's not like he made the political statement here, he made it there. And I highly doubt that he even comes to these forums, this is why they have community managers: to shovel the **** of the community for him. This is just making a mess and nothing is being accomplished.

Commoners, on 04 October 2021 - 12:36 AM, said:

It'd be like if I started mounting antigovernment/antivax screeds onto the back of my mech and went "Hey @mwof2p i'm glad I can mount up in my antifaucimobile to spread the word about the devil's shot and how the cia are spreading 5g microchips to make everyone gay communists" and getting a like from one of PGI's executives. It'd be really weird and I'm pretty sure people would be questioning that too, and for good reasons.

I personally don't care for western politics, it's imploding with the tribalism and the identity politics. Believe it or not, USA isn't the only country in the world. Everyone thinks everyone else got it wrong, that's just a fact of having different beliefs. It's an endless pointless involvement.

And lots of countries and other places have horrible histories once you dig deep enough, it's an endless search, a bottomless cup. I'd rather we actually discuss with the person what he ACTUALLY believes in the here and now instead of merely assuming his stances for him.

Alternatively, we could just stop here and right now. That is what I'm going to do.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 04 October 2021 - 01:15 AM.

[Commoners]

The6thMessenger, on 04 October 2021 - 12:57 AM, said:

*scratches head* So tweet back.

It's not like he made the political statement here, he made it there. And I highly doubt that he even comes to these forums, this is why they have community managers: to shovel the **** of the community for him. This is just making a mess and nothing is being accomplished.

I personally don't care for western politics, it's imploding with the tribalism and the identity politics. Believe it or not, USA isn't the only country in the world. And lots of countries and other places have horrible histories once you dig deep enough, it's an endless search, a bottomless cup. I'd rather we actually discuss with the person what he ACTUALLY believes in the here and now instead of merely assuming his stances for him.

Alternatively, we could just stop here and right now.

Are we talking about Russ or the guy who on twitter who clearly states that he's a secessionist? Because the guy on twitter that got retweeted by Russ has a very clear political stance that is expressed, and his use of decals is that stance entering the game space.

I don't know where you're from, but a European example of hotbutton equivalents would be an Irish person decalling out a flag for the Irish Republican Army or someone from Chechnya putting a Chechen indepedence flag on their mech. They're both current, undeniably political-in-identity movements that are the same as the confederate stars and bars.

Presidents, CEOs, community managers, and other outward-facing executive positions also don't have the same privileges as company employees to separate their personal accounts from matters of the companies that they're hired by, and that degree of separation was further removed when he started making professional statements on his twitter about how this moderation was done yesterday.

That's why it's being discussed here- Because this entire debacle is a question of moderation policies and what we are and aren't allowed to do. If someone is getting endorsement for an extremely polarizing political stance from PGI's president, are political statements in game really being enforced? If Russ did it out of ignorance or not really thinking about the political implications of it, he can just decide to stop retweeting it.

If you really don't care then no one is chaining you to your desk and forcing you to take a side or anything, you can stop discussing and keeping up with the discussion of it by closing the tab or going to another thread my dude.

Edited by Commoners, 04 October 2021 - 01:20 AM.

[udoshi]

Too little, too late.

When are you firing GM Patience?

Its not like this is the first time or anything.


Edit: While we're on the subject of gay rights, which of your devs stated that there would never be a hot pink in the game because it was too girly for mechs? Russ?
Fix that too, please. Garish as can be. All I want for christmas is a hot pink atlas.

Edited by udoshi, 04 October 2021 - 01:23 AM.

[Armored Yokai]

I am unsure of how to respond at this moment, or I just do NOT know the answer.
This is something I was not expecting.

[Commoners]

Armored Yokai, on 04 October 2021 - 01:24 AM, said:

I am unsure of how to respond at this moment, or I just do NOT know the answer.
This is something I was not expecting.

It's something that never should have been a moderation issue in the first place, so don't think you've got an unreasonable response.

[Alilua]

This is unexpected, but I think you did the right thing here.

[P H O T O N]

I think it important to state that while some people may find some terms or symbols offensive, not everyone does. And to those who are offended, censorship is not the answer here, as it offends those who are not offended in the first place! Instead people need to simply get a thicker skin and be more understanding that offense is almost certainly not always intended. Do not assume the worst, and let people be entitled to their own opinions.

Piranha Games, please do NOT become a prisoner of the WOKE cancel culture. Please state your opinions without fear of reprisal, and always state them with good intend.

Good will to all men (and women, and she/it/they/them etc).

Edited by Titan Prometheus, 04 October 2021 - 03:00 AM.

[Temporary Axis]

MechaGnome, on 04 October 2021 - 12:19 AM, said:

Does it matter, seriously... People will be offended by anything? I'm offended by ASH daily should we exclude ASH now? No! just deal people... wow.

Wow, that's pretty toxic

[Commoners]

KOKO MORENO, on 04 October 2021 - 01:58 AM, said:

[redacted]

Pretty brave to use an actual slur in a discussion about moderation practices on what does and does not constitute political speech, symbols of oppression, and hate speech. Weird hill to kill an account on.

Titan Prometheus, on 04 October 2021 - 02:33 AM, said:

I think it important to state that while some people may find some terms or symbols offensive, not everyone does. And to those who are offended, censorship is not the answer here, as it offends those who are not offended in the first place! Instead people need to simply get a thicker skin and be more understanding that offense is almost certainly not always intended. Do not assume the worst, and let people be entitled to their own opinions.

Piranha Games, please do NOT become a prisoner of the WOKE cancel culture. Please state your opinions without fear of reprisal, and always state them with good intend.

Good will to all men (and women, and she/it/they/them etc).

Making a post to preach for tolerance and understanding while liking a post directly above it using pejorative terms and making light of the use of blackface is some real two-faced disingenuous bullcrap.

And you're acting like cancel culture is some new thing. It's been used for all of humanity's history, and it's just now that it's being focused on as a negative thing by the same people who used it prior because they are suddenly facing consequences for being jerks in public where they would've been coddled and protected by their status as a majority member before. There's nothing wrong with someone in a community based on having fun together with giant stompy robots getting the boot for actively trying to put down other members based on who they are.

Communities should be curated, and this is one where politics and slurs don't have a place.

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 04 October 2021 - 10:11 AM.
quote clean-up

[catgirl]

KOKO MORENO, on 04 October 2021 - 01:58 AM, said:

[redacted]

I think this quote is enough proof of rights AND respect transgendered individuals have to fight to earn - when they should not have to.

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 04 October 2021 - 10:12 AM.
quote clean-up

[An Actual Walrus]

catgirl, on 04 October 2021 - 03:21 AM, said:

I think this quote is enough proof of rights AND respect transgendered individuals have to fight to earn - when they should not have to.

For some reason, some people think other, different people shouldn't exist or have the same rights... which is absolutely baffling to me.

[P H O T O N]

Commoners, on 04 October 2021 - 03:18 AM, said:

Pretty brave to use an actual slur in a discussion about moderation practices on what does and does not constitute political speech, symbols of oppression, and hate speech. Weird hill to kill an account on.



Making a post to preach for tolerance and understanding while liking a post directly above it using pejorative terms and making light of the use of blackface is some real two-faced disingenuous bullcrap.

And you're acting like cancel culture is some new thing. It's been used for all of humanity's history, and it's just now that it's being focused on as a negative thing by the same people who used it prior because they are suddenly facing consequences for being jerks in public where they would've been coddled and protected by their status as a majority member before. There's nothing wrong with someone in a community based on having fun together with giant stompy robots getting the boot for actively trying to put down other members based on who they are.

Communities should be curated, and this is one where politics and slurs don't have a place.

Could you be more offensive? Vent your spleen elsewhere. Be more tolerant to those who are not like you and you will receive the same treatment.