8 replies to this topic

[w0qj]

Q: So what is the difference between these three on my Cyclops Sleipnir?

Upper Arm Actuator / Lower Arm Actuator / Hand Actuator

A: Let me try to guess:

1) Upper Arm Actuator: the shoulder joint of the mech arm?
ie: When mech arms are "unlocked", lets your aiming reticle point up/down.
All MWO mechs have this, otherwise you would not have an "arm" on your mech!

2) Lower Arm Actuator: the elbow joint of the mech arm?
ie: When mech arms are "unlocked", lets your aiming reticle point left/right.
Not all mechs have this Lower Arm Actuator.
Clan mechs, if it have Lower Arm Actuator, is a checkbox "optional" choice by user.
IS mechs, if it have Lower Arm Actuator, always occupy one critical slot.

3) Hand Actuator: useless in MWO? This is the "wrist" joint of the mech arm?
Not all mechs have this Hand Actuator.
Clan mechs, if it have Hand Actuator, is a checkbox "optional" choice by user.
IS mechs, if it have Hand Actuator, always occupy one critical slot.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
For example, I just found out that my Cyclops has 2 less critical slots than my Mauler, because Cyclops also have 2x Hand Actuator!

Edited by w0qj, 15 October 2021 - 08:33 AM.

[martian]

w0qj, on 15 October 2021 - 08:19 AM, said:

A: Let me try to guess:
...

Essentially, you are right.

w0qj, on 15 October 2021 - 08:19 AM, said:

For example, I just found out that my Cyclops has 2 less critical slot than my Mauler, because Cyclops also have 2x Hand Actuator!

In MWO, there are no physical attacks.

In BattleTech, you can use your Cyclops' hands to punch or push enemy 'Mechs. You can use them to pick up various things. Etc. These things are impossible in MWO.

[Escef]

w0qj, on 15 October 2021 - 08:19 AM, said:

Q: So what is the difference between these three on my Cyclops Sleipnir?

Upper Arm Actuator / Lower Arm Actuator / Hand Actuator

A: Let me try to guess:

1) Upper Arm Actuator: the shoulder joint of the mech arm?
ie: When mech arms are "unlocked", lets your aiming reticle point up/down.
All MWO mechs have this, otherwise you would not have an "arm" on your mech!

No, the shoulder is actuated by the shoulder actuator. In MWO this seems to share functionality with the upper arm actuator, and in MWO is effectively used to elevate/depress arm mounted guns. (E.g., Catapult, Rifleman, Jagermech)

w0qj, on 15 October 2021 - 08:19 AM, said:

2) Lower Arm Actuator: the elbow joint of the mech arm?
ie: When mech arms are "unlocked", lets your aiming reticle point left/right.
Not all mechs have this Lower Arm Actuator.
Clan mechs, if it have Lower Arm Actuator, is a checkbox "optional" choice by user.
IS mechs, if it have Lower Arm Actuator, always occupy one critical slot.

This would more or less be the lateral traverse of the elbow in MWO, yes. (In table top it may or may not also include some of the functionality found in the human wrist/forearm to rotate the hand.) In MWO, mechs lacking one or both lower arm actuators tend to have limited or no lateral range with arm mounted weapons other than that generated by rotating the torso. This can be seen in mechs such as the CN9-AH/YLW or in many omnimechs. (As a side note, I prefer to use Warhawk B or C right arms and Dire Wolf A right arms and avoid mounting PPCs in said arms, so that the arm weapons have at least a little lateral traverse... Comes in handy against fast movers.)

w0qj, on 15 October 2021 - 08:19 AM, said:

3) Hand Actuator: useless in MWO? This is the "wrist" joint of the mech arm?
Not all mechs have this Hand Actuator.
Clan mechs, if it have Hand Actuator, is a checkbox "optional" choice by user.
IS mechs, if it have Hand Actuator, always occupy one critical slot.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
For example, I just found out that my Cyclops has 2 less critical slots than my Mauler, because Cyclops also have 2x Hand Actuator!

Hand actuators in MWO are largely cosmetic inconveniences. (In table top they literally comprise the intricacies of your mech's articulated hands, you can use them to punch, push, and grab for and utilize improvised clubs... Generally trees or girders scavenged out of wrecked buildings.)

In omnimechs, lower arm and hand actuators are incompatible with any type of Autocannon (including LBX, Ultra, LAC, and rotary), the various Gauss Rifles, and all types of Particle Cannon. Inner Sphere omnimechs (which do not exist in MWO, and may not ever) are also bound by these restrictions. Clan battlemechs in MWO with lower arm and/or hand actuators may not remove them (e.g., Kodiak, Incubus, Piranha, Highlander IIC, Warhammer IIC). This is just the price that these battlemechs pay in-game for being able to customize engines and structural options (which are fixed on omnimechs).

*Multiple edits for numerous typos and accidentally forgetting to mention Gauss Rifles.

Edited by Escef, 17 October 2021 - 02:44 PM.

[Funky Bacon]

in MWO, the hand actuators (on top of what the lower arm gives) basically just add a few extra degrees of horizontal movement to your arms as a way to make up for having less slots available. This is most noticeable on clan mechs with removable parts as you can decide if you want arms to swing sideways or not.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

This

Funky Bacon, on 18 October 2021 - 01:49 AM, said:

in MWO, the hand actuators (on top of what the lower arm gives) basically just add a few extra degrees of horizontal movement to your arms as a way to make up for having less slots available. ...

would be wrong as far as I know. The hand actuator does not influence the yaw angle of the arms, only the lower arm actuator does.

Edited by Aidan Crenshaw, 18 October 2021 - 04:23 AM.

[Funky Bacon]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 18 October 2021 - 04:18 AM, said:

This would be wrong as far as I know. The hand actuator does not influence the yaw angle of the arms, only the lower arm actuator does.

Since most IS mech variants all carry the same actuators between the different chassi it is hard to compare, but look at something like the Corsair that do have different types of arms and you will see that the ones with two hands have greater range of motion than the ones with just one or no hands.
The -5T and -BR having the greatest range as they both have two lower arms and two hands, while the -RA for example that only have one arm (with lower arm and hand actuator) have half that range. So yes, the hand does affect the range of motion. But just like torso twist range, the base range is decided by PGI on a per chassi basis so one mech with no hands can still have greater range than a mech with two hands.

Edit**

Okay, I double checked just be to be sure, but it does appear that the hands on Clan mech's really don't add to the yaw angle, which I am pretty sure they are suppose to do, or at least did at one point.... I mean it pretty much was the only reason to even add a hand on your clan mech in the first place. Did that feature get removed or is it a bug I wonder?

Edited by Funky Bacon, 18 October 2021 - 10:58 AM.

[Gagis]

The annoying part about all this is how locked arms make your torso controls kinda clunky, but if you don't have lower arm actuators you can get pseudo-locked arms with much more fluid and natural controls.

I wish arm lock behaved more like mechs without lower arm actuators did.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

I think at one point down in history hand actuators indeed increased the motion range. These days are long gone though.
The -RA from your example has less motion range because it's asymmetric. One arm has full motion, but the other has no lower arm actuator and therefore has zero lateral movement. Instead of now having one fixed arm, the movement range is just halved.

[Curccu]

Funky Bacon, on 18 October 2021 - 10:46 AM, said:

Okay, I double checked just be to be sure, but it does appear that the hands on Clan mech's really don't add to the yaw angle, which I am pretty sure they are suppose to do, or at least did at one point.... I mean it pretty much was the only reason to even add a hand on your clan mech in the first place. Did that feature get removed or is it a bug I wonder?

Only reason to have hand actuator is having a bit larger shield arm that covers your torso, nothing else. And if a build can use those extra 2 slots to anything else that is better option usually.