333 replies to this topic

[Heavy Money]

C337Skymaster, on 15 October 2021 - 05:40 PM, said:

Okay, I'm suddenly reminded of a line from The Incredibles, from the villain Syndrome: "When everyone's special, no one will be". Heat Scale Limit quirks were sort of a nice addition when it was enabling a 'mech to perform in its stock role, and live up to the reputation that it's supposed to be known for (PPC quirk on the Awesome, for example). PPC HSL quirks on Dragon Slayer? Really? And I don't want ANYONE trying 8 Large Lasers!! 6 is bad enough! There's already way too much pinpoint damage in this game, and it's only getting worse with all these quirks and weapon buffs. At this point, there are so many holes in the Ghost Heat net that you may as well get rid of the system entirely for all the good it's doing. And you CAN do, if you also get rid of convergence, so nothing lands pinpoint, anymore. Nothing random, either: lock everything to fire straight ahead, and then we can lead targets at range, and you don't have to worry about 8 large lasers all hitting the same component. Having 3 of them strike in the same place will be sufficient.

The IS big laser HSL quirks are very important. IS Large Lasers have problems with scaling up on assault builds due to slot and ghost heat limits. So energy heavy IS assaults end up with extremely lackluster alphas and sustained damage compared to equivalent ballistic loadouts. Their performance ratios are WAY off compared to smaller mechs.

Think about it. An IS Heavy laservomit mech is going to alpha 4LL+4ERML. An IS assault laservomit mech is going to alpha....4LL+4ERML because they don't have more hardpoints (unlike clan) and the HSL was already being hit by the heavy mech version. Whereas, for ballistic builds, heavy mechs are running something like 2 5's and a 10. Assaults are running 2 10's and 2 5's. Neither are hitting ghost heat. Because of this, IS assault energy boats are just kind of crap. How often do you see 90-100 ton energy boats? There are several, but they are just bad and not worth playing.

Giving them HSL bonuses increases their alpha damage without giving them any more dps. Its a relatively small bonus. For 6 large lasers, firing 5 then 1 instead of 4 then 2 is not a huge bonus. For 8LL, 5 then 3 instead of 4 then 4...its really not a big deal.

Also, 6 large lasers and 8 large lasers are not good builds. Nobody plays these right now because they are just weak. (Not to be confused with 6ERLL, but that's a whole different game.) Even with these bonuses, they are likely to remain pretty lackluster compared to 4 LB10X or 2UAC10+2UAC5 builds, which operate in the same range bracket and have vastly more damage output.

Also also, lasers are not pinpoint damage.

You can see more info about these IS laser scaling issues (including dps comparisons, etc) in my giant Marauder II post. There's a section on the weapon scaling stuff if you scroll down a bit.

Edited by Heavy Money, 15 October 2021 - 08:32 PM.

[C337Skymaster]

justcallme A S H, on 15 October 2021 - 08:18 PM, said:

I'm not trying to kick anyone out. Your completely unfun, unintuitive, overly convoluted "improvements" is what will kick players out. Actually no kick them out isn't accurate. It will cause many of the remaining population to quit.


You are the only one talking about the suggestions you keep putting forward. There is no "we are" there, it is just you. You must be vacuum or something. Looking through all the threads your opinions are not remotely close to even accepted, let alone receiving mass agreement or furtherance of conversation.

There is nothing "toxic" about the vast majority of people saying that your ideas are barking up the wrong tree and will ruin the game for them. It could be perceived that you are actually being the toxic one by continually claiming things that are completely untrue.


I can only say that thankfully none of them would come to fruition. In all the podcasts and Devlogs it's been clear things won't head in that direction. I sleep well at night knowing the days of PGI making whack decisions like you keep putting forward - are long gone.

Also "Toxic" was the 2019 gamer buzz-word that was continually used out of context. It is almost 2022 please find a new one.

Honestly, ASH, I can't see you as anything other than a ***** after the Faction Match where your team was mopping up us Pugs, and you felt it necessary to openly mock and belittle myself and another player in All-Chat. I've got a video of that match around here somewhere, but it's been so long that it's buried in a folder somewhere, and I'm having trouble finding it. If I ever do, I'll be able to prove this memory.

I might be the only person openly suggesting the elimination of convergence as a solution to pinpoint damage, but "pinpoint is a problem" has been a complaint with this game since day 1, hence Ghost Heat (whose specific purpose was to limit the amount of damage that could be applied to any one point on any one target at any particular time, and which is suddenly being rapidly eroded with quirks that don't even apply to the stock build of the 'mech, but follow the "flavor of the month" meta).

Also "Invisible walls are a problem" has been another widely repeated complaint, and the elimination of convergence would solve at least half of that issue, as well, by allowing players to use the width of their 'mechs to their advantage and shoot around corners, instead of dumping all their firepower into their invisible cover that they hadn't quite cleared with the crosshair (even though they can see the target, plain as day).

[C337Skymaster]

Heavy Money, on 15 October 2021 - 08:29 PM, said:

The IS big laser HSL quirks are very important. IS Large Lasers have problems with scaling up on assault builds due to slot and ghost heat limits. So energy heavy IS assaults end up with extremely lackluster alphas and sustained damage compared to equivalent ballistic loadouts. Their performance ratios are WAY off compared to smaller mechs.

Think about it. An IS Heavy laservomit mech is going to alpha 4LL+4ERML. An IS assault laservomit mech is going to alpha....4LL+4ERML because they don't have more hardpoints (unlike clan) and the HSL was already being hit by the heavy mech version. Whereas, for ballistic builds, heavy mechs are running something like 2 5's and a 10. Assaults are running 2 10's and 2 5's. Neither are hitting ghost heat. Because of this, IS assault energy boats are just kind of crap. How often do you see 90-100 ton energy boats? There are several, but they are just bad and not worth playing.

Giving them HSL bonuses increases their alpha damage without giving them any more dps. Its a relatively small bonus. For 6 large lasers, firing 5 then 1 instead of 4 then 2 is not a huge bonus. For 8LL, 5 then 3 instead of 4 then 4...its really not a big deal.

Also, 6 large lasers and 8 large lasers are not good builds. Nobody plays these right now because they are just weak. (Not to be confused with 6ERLL, but that's a whole different game.) Even with these bonuses, they are likely to remain pretty lackluster compared to 4 LB10X or 2UAC10+2UAC5 builds, which operate in the same range bracket and have vastly more damage output.

Also also, lasers are not pinpoint damage.

You can see more info about these IS laser scaling issues (including dps comparisons, etc) in my giant Marauder II post. There's a section on the weapon scaling stuff if you scroll down a bit.

So I accept all of your rationale except one point: Lasers very much ARE pinpoint damage on any 'mech that has easily targeted torso components. The speed with which my Dire Wolf side torsos will melt under the laser fire of a single heavy and single medium 'mech (while torso AND leg twisting and not having a single moment to return any sort of weapons fire due to the desperate attempt to spread the damage) puts the lie to the idea that lasers aren't pinpoint. Of all the weapons they're the easiest to aim at a specific component because they hit precisely where they're aimed, precisely when they're fired, and can even be adjusted as necessary to maintain that focus, even as the target is trying to spread it around.

[C337Skymaster]

Dire Wolves are classified as a "Brawler" for some reason, and yet in MWO they're relegated to trying to out-range the opposition with as much firepower as they can reach with, because they can't take very many hits, and they can't spread damage at all.

[Heavy Money]

C337Skymaster, on 15 October 2021 - 08:36 PM, said:

So I accept all of your rationale except one point: Lasers very much ARE pinpoint damage on any 'mech that has easily targeted torso components. The speed with which my Dire Wolf side torsos will melt under the laser fire of a single heavy and single medium 'mech (while torso AND leg twisting and not having a single moment to return any sort of weapons fire due to the desperate attempt to spread the damage) puts the lie to the idea that lasers aren't pinpoint. Of all the weapons they're the easiest to aim at a specific component because they hit precisely where they're aimed, precisely when they're fired, and can even be adjusted as necessary to maintain that focus, even as the target is trying to spread it around.

In ideal circumstances you are correct.
SRMs and MRMs are also pinpoint if you're close enough and the target component is large enough.

In practice though, lasers are only pinpoint if the target is immobile or the user has godlike accuracy. If you twist when under fire, they aren't pinpoint. (Of course, this depends on the burn time, and you may not twist if you consider it more valuable to keep firing or something.)

We are not witnessing IS large laser boats running around sniping off individual body parts of their choice. And we still won't after this. Even clan laser boats aren't really doing that, and they have much bigger alphas than this will allow.

So don't worry about it

Edited by Heavy Money, 15 October 2021 - 08:43 PM.

[C337Skymaster]

Otherwise, my beef with the HSL quirks is that they were originally used to reinforce the reputation of a particular 'mech: PPCs for Awesomes, AC/20 for the King Crab (new, but definitely warranted), ERLL on the Supernova, PPC/Gauss for the Marauder 4L and 6S, but in all cases only up to where you could fire the stock loadout without having to worry as much about being penalized for the loadout the 'mech came with, before you even got a chance to mess with it.

This new round of HSL quirks isn't aimed at making the default build less punishing, but at encouraging crazy custom builds with extremely high alpha damage that CAN be applied to a pinpoint by a semi-talented 'mech pilot, and that's what I have an issue with.

[denAirwalkerrr]

C337Skymaster, on 15 October 2021 - 08:43 PM, said:

This new round of HSL quirks isn't aimed at making the default build less punishing, but at encouraging crazy custom builds with extremely high alpha damage that CAN be applied to a pinpoint by a semi-talented 'mech pilot, and that's what I have an issue with.

Wow almost if mechs were unplayable garbage before them so these quirks giving them potentially viable builds due to not being able to have 3xL+6xM optimized laservomit builds due to inherit hardpoint limitations. Who'd thought.

[C337Skymaster]

Heavy Money, on 15 October 2021 - 08:42 PM, said:

In ideal circumstances you are correct.
SRMs and MRMs are also pinpoint if you're close enough and the target component is large enough.

In practice though, lasers are only pinpoint if the target is immobile or the user has godlike accuracy. If you twist when under fire, they aren't pinpoint. (Of course, this depends on the burn time, and you may not twist if you consider it more valuable to keep firing or something.)

We are not witnessing IS large laser boats running around sniping off individual body parts of their choice. And we still won't after this. Even clan laser boats aren't really doing that, and they have much bigger alphas than this will allow.

So don't worry about it

I'll have to upload and link the video (it's on another computer), but the scenario I speak of happened just the other day. It must have been Hibernal, because I remember the spires in the middle, still, but I was up behind where that new crashed dropship is on Hibernal, with a Warhammer and some medium 'mech (Wolverine, maybe?) Lasering my side torso with a combination of large and medium lasers. I lost my entire left side WHILE TWISTING, and trying to back down the hill to get away. I don't think I even had the missile bulge on that one, since I'm leveling the new -C variants, and I'm running them stock, with the missiles in the arms instead of the LT.

[Heavy Money]

C337Skymaster, on 15 October 2021 - 08:43 PM, said:

Otherwise, my beef with the HSL quirks is that they were originally used to reinforce the reputation of a particular 'mech: PPCs for Awesomes, AC/20 for the King Crab (new, but definitely warranted), ERLL on the Supernova, PPC/Gauss for the Marauder 4L and 6S, but in all cases only up to where you could fire the stock loadout without having to worry as much about being penalized for the loadout the 'mech came with, before you even got a chance to mess with it.

This new round of HSL quirks isn't aimed at making the default build less punishing, but at encouraging crazy custom builds with extremely high alpha damage that CAN be applied to a pinpoint by a semi-talented 'mech pilot, and that's what I have an issue with.

I don't think its good for us to shackle people to the stock loadouts. Stock loadouts are generally crap.
The new changes are based on trying to make every variant relevant in some way. We want to get all these mechs out on the field and usable. Some variants use different weapon types from each other. Some have more sustained dps. Some have more alpha strike. HSL is one of the main ways to give slightly bigger alpha strike without increasing overall damage or dps. Its a fairly conservative thing to use, except for high damage PPFLD weapons like heavy PPCs, which just got removed from the 4A for reasons very similar to what you're concerned about (infringing on the role of other mechs.)

I think this round of HSL quirks is aimed at allowing lower alpha builds to compete with other options that already have higher alphas. They aren't taking big alpha builds and making them bigger.

[C337Skymaster]

denAirwalkerrr, on 15 October 2021 - 08:46 PM, said:

Wow almost if mechs were unplayable garbage before them so these quirks giving them potentially viable builds due to not being able to have 3xL+6xM optimized laservomit builds due to inherit hardpoint limitations. Who'd thought.

More like the weapon buffs, and all of these quirks, are pigeon-holing players and 'mechs into high-alpha pinpoint builds, and limiting the ability for other builds and creative play-testing, or even the default builds the 'mechs come with, to perform anymore.

I play TT builds, building them out if they're not already in the game. My PSR was steadily climbing pre-weapon-patch. It PLUMMETED after the weapon patch, because I stuck with the same 'mechs which were severely neutered by there being so much more firepower on the field all of a sudden, and stock armor configurations, which used to be enough to survive a hit, aren't, anymore. Thing is, I need the back armor, too, to survive back-stabs by sneaky lights, and to survive running away when I get stuck on terrain or a teammate backing up under enemy fire. I'm "only" running a 1070Ti, so I can't shoot while I'm being shot and hope to hit anything.

[Heavy Money]

C337Skymaster, on 15 October 2021 - 08:47 PM, said:

I'll have to upload and link the video (it's on another computer), but the scenario I speak of happened just the other day. It must have been Hibernal, because I remember the spires in the middle, still, but I was up behind where that new crashed dropship is on Hibernal, with a Warhammer and some medium 'mech (Wolverine, maybe?) Lasering my side torso with a combination of large and medium lasers. I lost my entire left side WHILE TWISTING, and trying to back down the hill to get away. I don't think I even had the missile bulge on that one, since I'm leveling the new -C variants, and I'm running them stock, with the missiles in the arms instead of the LT.

How much of that damage was spread to your other torsos? What sort of an angle did they have?
I'm not claiming people can't blow your side torsos off with lasers. The pinpoint vs non-pinpoint distinction is about how much of the damage stays on target or not. And of course, the dire whale is probably the easiest target to stay on. But its the exception not the rule.

[C337Skymaster]

Heavy Money, on 15 October 2021 - 08:47 PM, said:

I don't think its good for us to shackle people to the stock loadouts. Stock loadouts are generally crap.
The new changes are based on trying to make every variant relevant in some way. We want to get all these mechs out on the field and usable. Some variants use different weapon types from each other. Some have more sustained dps. Some have more alpha strike. HSL is one of the main ways to give slightly bigger alpha strike without increasing overall damage or dps. Its a fairly conservative thing to use, except for high damage PPFLD weapons like heavy PPCs, which just got removed from the 4A for reasons very similar to what you're concerned about (infringing on the role of other mechs.)

I think this round of HSL quirks is aimed at allowing lower alpha builds to compete with other options that already have higher alphas. They aren't taking big alpha builds and making them bigger.

Thing is, that wasn't my experience pre-weapon-patch. Sure, I needed to convert to DHS and Endo Steel, and fill in any missing armor, but I could leave back armor alone, and leave the weapons alone, and perform decently well. After the weapon patch, the "stock builds are crap" thing got significantly more true than it ever previously was, and it stands to reason, since the stock builds were built around the pre-patch weapon stats.

[Heavy Money]

C337Skymaster, on 15 October 2021 - 08:53 PM, said:

More like the weapon buffs, and all of these quirks, are pigeon-holing players and 'mechs into high-alpha pinpoint builds, and limiting the ability for other builds and creative play-testing, or even the default builds the 'mechs come with, to perform anymore.

I play TT builds, building them out if they're not already in the game. My PSR was steadily climbing pre-weapon-patch. It PLUMMETED after the weapon patch, because I stuck with the same 'mechs which were severely neutered by there being so much more firepower on the field all of a sudden, and stock armor configurations, which used to be enough to survive a hit, aren't, anymore. Thing is, I need the back armor, too, to survive back-stabs by sneaky lights, and to survive running away when I get stuck on terrain or a teammate backing up under enemy fire. I'm "only" running a 1070Ti, so I can't shoot while I'm being shot and hope to hit anything.

The weapon changes have improved non-pinpoint builds a lot. To the extent that they have improved pinpoint builds, they've mostly just been catching them up to the other top builds. (The only real new PPFLD option is Light gauss+ERPPCs.)

Stock loadouts should generally have improved as they generally used bad weapons, and almost all of the weaker weapons have gotten stronger, whereas the previously top weapons have not changed (ERPPCs, UAC10's, IS Medium pulses, etc.)

There's more firepower on the field because the previous disparities have been reduced. There's also been several things done that improve survivability, like the mobility fixes and many defensive quirks.

At the end of the day, your problem is that you're deliberately choosing to play stock loadouts that are not good, have never been good, and never will be good.

It might be interesting to see a quirk pass some day to address pure stock loadouts (So8s nearly are this already). But that's a very low priority as most people don't want to play them anyway.

[C337Skymaster]

Heavy Money, on 15 October 2021 - 08:53 PM, said:

How much of that damage was spread to your other torsos? What sort of an angle did they have? I'm not claiming people can't blow your side torsos off with lasers. The pinpoint vs non-pinpoint distinction is about how much of the damage stays on target or not. And of course, the dire whale is probably the easiest target to stay on. But its the exception not the rule.

I'll have to upload and link the video, but as far as I remember, it only deviated to the CT, and possibly a little to the left arm. Nothing hit the right torso or right arm (or legs) that I was aware of, despite turning to the left briefly, before turning back to the right to try and escape down the ramp, since I must have shifted to the side enough that I caught on a rock trying to back down it.

[denAirwalkerrr]

C337Skymaster, on 15 October 2021 - 08:53 PM, said:

More like the weapon buffs, and all of these quirks, are pigeon-holing players and 'mechs into high-alpha pinpoint builds, and limiting the ability for other builds and creative play-testing, or even the default builds the 'mechs come with, to perform anymore.

I play TT builds, building them out if they're not already in the game. My PSR was steadily climbing pre-weapon-patch. It PLUMMETED after the weapon patch, because I stuck with the same 'mechs which were severely neutered by there being so much more firepower on the field all of a sudden, and stock armor configurations, which used to be enough to survive a hit, aren't, anymore. Thing is, I need the back armor, too, to survive back-stabs by sneaky lights, and to survive running away when I get stuck on terrain or a teammate backing up under enemy fire. I'm "only" running a 1070Ti, so I can't shoot while I'm being shot and hope to hit anything.

Do you want to pigeonhole people into "throw 9 random weapon systems on mech and have fun trying to operate this abomination" builds?

There is such thing called adaptation. Was really helpful for our species for last couple million years. Very recommend to learn how it works. I have been running 1050 for 5 years, even got to top 3 with it in last WC, hitting things just fine. I also run usually run 1 back armor on everything and just don't let lights get behind me using two wonderful things called map awareness and teammates.

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 15 October 2021 - 09:02 PM.

[Heavy Money]

C337Skymaster, on 15 October 2021 - 08:59 PM, said:

I'll have to upload and link the video, but as far as I remember, it only deviated to the CT, and possibly a little to the left arm. Nothing hit the right torso or right arm (or legs) that I was aware of, despite turning to the left briefly, before turning back to the right to try and escape down the ramp, since I must have shifted to the side enough that I caught on a rock trying to back down it.

Okay, so it hit 2-3 different parts, even on the mech with pretty much the worst hitboxes and twisting in the game, and you getting stuck? Isn't that a pretty good demonstration of it not really being pinpoint?

Imagine if they had been shooting snub nose PPCs and ACs instead.

[C337Skymaster]

Heavy Money, on 15 October 2021 - 08:58 PM, said:

The weapon changes have improved non-pinpoint builds a lot. To the extent that they have improved pinpoint builds, they've mostly just been catching them up to the other top builds. (The only real new PPFLD option is Light gauss+ERPPCs.) Stock loadouts should generally have improved as they generally used bad weapons, and almost all of the weaker weapons have gotten stronger, whereas the previously top weapons have not changed (ERPPCs, UAC10's, IS Medium pulses, etc.) There's more firepower on the field because the previous disparities have been reduced. There's also been several things done that improve survivability, like the mobility fixes and many defensive quirks. At the end of the day, your problem is that you're deliberately choosing to play stock loadouts that are not good, have never been good, and never will be good. It might be interesting to see a quirk pass some day to address pure stock loadouts (So8s nearly are this already). But that's a very low priority as most people don't want to play them anyway.

I enjoy stock builds, because otherwise every build is the same, (or nearly the same). Want lasers? 2 large, 6 medium. Want Ballistics? 2x 5's, 2x 10's. Want Missiles? Carry a TAG and as many missiles as possible, and nothing else, and carry so much ammo that if you were to explode, you'd take half the state of Mississippi with you.

Also, especially with regards to IS 'mechs, "Engineers" (fictional, but still) "took painstaking effort to make this build work", and here we come and pick components off a roulette wheel and go "whee!!!" It's so incredibly unfaithful to what we're supposedly simulating, it's frustrating that it just "works" without any real penalty.

And the fact remains: My stock builds were doing very well pre-patch, and started to do very poorly post-patch, and I was working on variations of the Orion-M at the time, so it wasn't even a change in which stock build I was using. The ON1-M pre-patch was an amazing 'mech (which surprised me, too! Honest! I wasn't expecting it to be any good. I was just trying it out). Post-patch, I couldn't show my face to another opponent without having the missile shoulder or CT cored in one shot, and blown out on the 2nd or 3rd shot. The ON1-MA is surprisingly worse than the -M, despite merely removing the NARC and adding Artemis with the free weight. The ON1-MB and -MD are objectively terrible MWO builds, both before and after the patch, and the -MC took some getting used to, and while it could dish out a lot of punishment, it really couldn't take a lot in return.

[denAirwalkerrr]

C337Skymaster, on 15 October 2021 - 09:09 PM, said:

Also, especially with regards to IS 'mechs, "Engineers" (fictional, but still) "took painstaking effort to make this build work", and here we come and pick components off a roulette wheel and go "whee!!!" It's so incredibly unfaithful to what we're supposedly simulating, it's frustrating that it just "works" without any real penalty.

Play stock Charger with 5xSL and tell us how much fun you had.

[C337Skymaster]

Heavy Money, on 15 October 2021 - 09:08 PM, said:

Okay, so it hit 2-3 different parts, even on the mech with pretty much the worst hitboxes and twisting in the game, and you getting stuck? Isn't that a pretty good demonstration of it not really being pinpoint? Imagine if they had been shooting snub nose PPCs and ACs instead.

The range was far enough that Snubs would have been in their falloff bracket, and AC's have ballistic droop, which would have been taking effect at the range in question (about 500m), spreading some of the damage to my legs, and not just the side torso. My point is that they burned through nearly 100 hit points in just under five seconds, and that doesn't include what little I did manage to spread to other components.

To be fair, however, I'd like to see a reduction in ALL pinpoint damage, not just lasers. I target lasers because you can get a higher alpha out of them on lighter chassis, and they're not subject to that ballistic falloff I mentioned that can affect aim at long range. I've also experienced on a not-infrequent basis having laser damage not give any warning (audible or visual), so if you're being hit from outside your forward field-of-view, you literally have no clue that you're taking damage until the paper doll updates, sometimes resulting in the loss of a side torso with no warning or explanation. At least with ballistics, in that case, you hear the impact, and you know what happened. With lasers, they can actually do silent damage and leave you clueless about what just happened.

[C337Skymaster]

denAirwalkerrr, on 15 October 2021 - 09:14 PM, said:

Play stock Charger with 5xSL and tell us how much fun you had.

See, there's a reason I don't own that 'mech. And there's a reason that in EVERY context, that 'mech is a terrible 'mech. It exists solely to be an example of a terrible 'mech. Same thing with the Assassin. I don't own any of those, either: A single Medium Laser, an LRM 5, and an SRM 2. That exists to be an objectively terrible 'mech. The fact that Assassins are terrifying is anathema. The ability to turn a Charger into an Awesome is just nuts. The amount of work involved in getting that to happen, not to mention the extra shielding required to protect onboard systems from the weapon's EM Pulse... And Sarna makes mention of the Targeting and Tracking system being overtaxed if you try to use the one that was meant for 5 small lasers.

On the other hand, I played the Warhammer-6R 100% stock the first time through, about 3 or 4 years ago, and I had a blast! I could use the PPCs at range, and if I was very careful to not use the PPCs while I was using the torso weapons, I could very nearly spam the torso weapons (cycling the mediums a little more slowly than the rest), and actually do enough damage at range to brawl down my opponents up close. The stock single heat sinks and stock armor were sufficient to keep the 'mech functional, even against some of the meta of the time. I mastered that 'mech from brand-new without changing a single thing. Not even a single point of armor, anywhere. I remember because I was really impressed with the 'mech's ability to do that well, since I was actively converting all of my IS 'mechs to DHS and max armor (or close to it), and that was one of the only 'mechs that I kept single heat sinks on.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 15 October 2021 - 09:34 PM.