333 replies to this topic

[Krovakon]

Since it seems like the Cauldron is down to try FUN things for So8 quirks, I'm really hoping the Exe-C gets a -100% UAC jam chance quirk for its So8 bonus. I tried running around with it half a year ago using stock omnipods and I ended up getting 3 jams in a row with the UAC-20 and immediately reworked it into the triple ERPPC meta build. Yes, it actually jammed 3 times in a row.

[Charles Sennet]

Looking forward to the map update.

Commandos will be (even) harder to kill. Was this needed considering their already wonky hit-reg?

Those Stalker buffs, wow. They had already eclipsed the Battlemaster in most roles.

Get ready for even more 6R's in FP. 40 PPFLD at 2.5+KPH (forgot the exact number atm) velocity now has -10% cooldown to go along with 20% PPC velocity, -10% heat, 931+m optimal range, and a faster charge time weapon that Clans don't have anything close too???. Maybe fine in QP but FP is another matter. For all the grief levied at Clan PPFLD in the past this seems excessive.

I realize the Cauldron is not that concerned with FP balance but yikes.

Perhaps time to unlink up to 3 cERPPC / cGR? Will still suffer from a longer charge time (huge benefit) and slower velocity as compared to the IS equivalent, not too mention splash. Still wouldn't near as good as the 6R.

~12 IS mechs get significant buffs vs. ~4 Clan mechs. Still no Summoner quirks (esp. ammo)?

ATM's, meh.

Previous Cauldron passes where better.

[justcallme A S H]

C337Skymaster, on 15 October 2021 - 05:40 PM, said:

Spoiler

Okay, I'm suddenly reminded of a line from The Incredibles, from the villain Syndrome: "When everyone's special, no one will be". Heat Scale Limit quirks were sort of a nice addition when it was enabling a 'mech to perform in its stock role, and live up to the reputation that it's supposed to be known for (PPC quirk on the Awesome, for example). PPC HSL quirks on Dragon Slayer? Really? And I don't want ANYONE trying 8 Large Lasers!! 6 is bad enough! There's already way too much pinpoint damage in this game, and it's only getting worse with all these quirks and weapon buffs. At this point, there are so many holes in the Ghost Heat net that you may as well get rid of the system entirely for all the good it's doing. And you CAN do, if you also get rid of convergence, so nothing lands pinpoint, anymore. Nothing random, either: lock everything to fire straight ahead, and then we can lead targets at range, and you don't have to worry about 8 large lasers all hitting the same component. Having 3 of them strike in the same place will be sufficient.

As for the maps:
Canyon is mediocre, at best, and has basically taken over Polar's role as the "LRM map".
Literally the reason PGI created Polar in the first place was to give the players some of the MW2 feel of wide open flat maps, which was COMPLETELY ruined by the update. The map didn't need a redo. I actually really liked the suggestion of starting the teams a bit closer to each other on one side of the map, and placing the domination point off on the other side, so that the teams would see each other enroute to the cap point and start fighting, but the actual cap point itself could be placed in rough terrain where there was more cover available. I really, really miss Conquest on old Polar, where the cap points were 2000m apart and you actually had to pay attention to the caps and keep up with them, and couldn't just "kill everyone and then worry about the caps", as is the case on every other map. The new configuration is too geometric. It's not nearly as nice.
The HPG rework is still atrocious [redacted]
Caustic, on the other hand, seems like an interesting change, but mostly due to the incredibly poor visibility increasing the options for 'mech movement on the map. You can definitely use heat vision to try to cut through the haze, but you're still shooting at vague dark blobs which prevents the kind of pinpoint 'mech-geometry-punishment that everyone hates so much, and which outright prevents the use of some 'mechs and builds (the otherwise iconic Mad Cat "bunny ears", for example). Caustic only rates as high as it does because the map doesn't feel very much different, except for the massive reduction in NASCAR.

So basically the vast majority of the community likes: HPG / Canyon / Polar

Dislikes: Caustic.


And you think the complete opposite as always. Sounds like complete confirmation Francois has everything completely right! I am very happy to know this.

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 19 October 2021 - 11:37 PM.
quote clean-up

[ScrapIron Prime]

Woo! My beloved Marauder 3R running 2 PPC + 2 AC/5 gets a velocity boost! That's excellent and I...

WHM-7S:
Added +12 armor to LT, RT
Removed PPC velocity
Added 40% weapon velocity

Holy frakking shite! 40% velocity boost? Can anyone say... MRM's ?

[pattonesque]

-Ramrod-, on 15 October 2021 - 04:01 PM, said:

If you're going to continue to redo maps please do not touch Tourmaline Desert, Grim Plexus, Alpine Peaks. Most of the feedback I see concerning these redo maps is negative. HIGHLY negative. Anywhere from Tier 5 to Tier 1 players are voicing this. Everything else in the patch seems to be alright though.

lmao what, people pick Canyon, Polar, and HPG all the time

Caustic is the only one which is objectively not as good and hopefully can be fixed

I think you personally do not like the maps and think everyone agrees with you.

[C337Skymaster]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 October 2021 - 06:11 PM, said:

You must be casually forgetting all the Clan mechs that blow 8 LL builds out of the water in terms of pinpoint damage.

Seriously everything you said was just wrong, I don’t even know where to begin…

No, those irritate me, too. I've been arguing against pinpoint damage for two or three years, now. Clan laser vomit was the original culprit, and I want to see Clan Large Lasers brought back down to their tabletop stats (cERLL: 10 dmg/12 heat, cLPL: 10/10, cHLL: 16/18). Ironically, for all the posturing about how everything TT is worthless and should be abandoned wholesale, cERSL are currently back to their TT stats of 5/3.

As an alternate method of balancing, recognizing the TT "turn" of 10 seconds, I'd be okay with setting DPS and HPS to 1/10th of their record sheets value and adjusting dmg and cooldown within that restriction to "balance" the various different weapons. (UACs are already described as spitting a stream of bullets at twice the rate of normal autocannon, and we've already partially adopted that behavior for UACs specifically).

For the record, however: Clan 'mechs are much more limited in their options for multiple high-mounted hardpoints. The only mechs which should have large laser quirks on the Clan side are those that run them as their stock build, and then only as set-of-8 quirks, which nearly universally guarantees the hardpoints in question are arm mounted, and rather low to the ground.

The only HSL quirks that I like are the ones that emphasize what a 'mech was known for: AC/20 on the King Crab (can be linked with Snub PPCs to mitigate the current 5-weapon alphas that were the reason that was fought against for so long), ERLL on the Supernova (the knuckle-dragging arm mounts prevent that from effectively sniping, as compared to Battlemasters and Stalkers, and the quirk is just enough to be able to group the weapons as left/right).

So no, I don't want ANYONE (myself included) to be able to dump that much damage into a single focused component. It unfairly punishes mechs that have unique and interesting geometry, and unfairly benefits players with a 4k display who can snipe an Atlas CT through its head from any angle at any speed at 800m.

[C337Skymaster]

pattonesque, on 15 October 2021 - 07:35 PM, said:

lmao what, people pick Canyon, Polar, and HPG all the time

Caustic is the only one which is objectively not as good and hopefully can be fixed

I think you personally do not like the maps and think everyone agrees with you.

The only people who like that trash are the ones who designed it through what I can only conclude is an inept intermediary.

[pattonesque]

C337Skymaster, on 15 October 2021 - 07:41 PM, said:

The only people who like that trash are the ones who designed it through what I can only conclude is an inept intermediary.

the majority of the playerbase, which pick Canyon, Polar, and HPG all the time, only reliably losing to mining, had a hand in designing those maps?

I think you should come to terms with the fact that this game is never gonna be what you want it to be.

[C337Skymaster]

pattonesque, on 15 October 2021 - 07:44 PM, said:

the majority of the playerbase, which pick Canyon, Polar, and HPG all the time, only reliably losing to mining, had a hand in designing those maps?

I think you should come to terms with the fact that this game is never gonna be what you want it to be.

That's defeatist, and ignores the hundreds (thousands?) of long departed Founders and Whales who want the game I'm championing, and have been run out by the current CoD crowd who've muscled in on their turf.

Tourmaline generally ranks highly in the voting as well, and I've played far more Viridian Bog since the map updates than in the year or two before them.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 15 October 2021 - 07:51 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

C337Skymaster, on 15 October 2021 - 07:50 PM, said:

ignores the hundreds (thousands?) of long departed Founders and Whales who want the game I'm championing

No they didn't.

What they wanted was MW5 in MWO. Now they have, MW5.

[pattonesque]

C337Skymaster, on 15 October 2021 - 07:50 PM, said:

That's defeatist, and ignores the hundreds (thousands?) of long departed Founders and Whales who want the game I'm championing, and have been run out by the current CoD crowd who've muscled in on their turf.

Tourmaline generally ranks highly in the voting as well, and I've played far more Viridian Bog since the map updates than in the year or two before them.

every time you come up suggestions they're all "but what if the game was insanely irritating to play and made you repair your mech in between matches???"

this is called Mechwarrior 5

[C337Skymaster]

justcallme A S H, on 15 October 2021 - 07:52 PM, said:

No they didn't.

What they wanted was MW5 in MWO. Now they have, MW5.

What we want is MW5, WITH Clan mechs, in a PvP format. MWO still has its place, and a reason to not go full Call of Duty. On top of that, I hear MW5 isn't even worth it if your hope is that it can live up to MW2, 3, or 4.

Also, STOP TRYING TO KICK PLAYERS OUT!!!! The constant rhetoric of "go play the trash game because the boys club doesn't like you" is toxic, and has no place in this game. We're talking about fixing THIS game. MW5 is a different game altogether, with its own massive let downs by the same people who made MWO into a letdown.

[pattonesque]

C337Skymaster, on 15 October 2021 - 08:01 PM, said:

What we want is MW5, WITH Clan mechs, in a PvP format. MWO still has its place, and a reason to not go full Call of Duty. On top of that, I hear MW5 isn't even worth it if your hope is that it can live up to MW2, 3, or 4.

Also, STOP TRYING TO KICK PLAYERS OUT!!!! The constant rhetoric of "go play the trash game because the boys club doesn't like you" is toxic, and has no place in this game. We're talking about fixing THIS game. MW5 is a different game altogether, with its own massive let downs by the same people who made MWO into a letdown.

"I am going to stop playing this game unless you make it so that aim doesn't matter at all, because otherwise that is Call of Duty to me"

"well there's a game for you that exists already"

"stop trying to drive me out "

[C337Skymaster]

pattonesque, on 15 October 2021 - 07:55 PM, said:

every time you come up suggestions they're all "but what if the game was insanely irritating to play and made you repair your mech in between matches???"

this is called Mechwarrior 5

That was ONE suggestion, aimed at making the game more expensive for veterans than for new players so as to give vets something to spend their stupid large bank accounts on. I want a reason to care about earning CBills and looking forward to mech sales. I actively avoid mech sales just so I can offload some money, and I actually despise the CBill boost on Hero and Special mechs.

My suggestions for fixing the game are all aimed at leveling the playing field a bit more, and combating the massive power creep that's been infecting this game for years, now. The AC20 should be the only weapon capable of massive pinpoint damage, which is balanced by its super short range. cERPPCs, Gauss Rifles, and Heavy PPCs are next, at significantly longer range, with the arsenal widening out from there. Each weapon strikes a different component, increasing time-to-kill and lengthening matches. This gives IS XL Engines the durability they're sorely lacking and paves the way for IS Omnimechs, which have been requested for years.

[justcallme A S H]

C337Skymaster, on 15 October 2021 - 08:01 PM, said:

What we want is MW5, WITH Clan mechs, in a PvP format. MWO still has its place, and a reason to not go full Call of Duty. On top of that, I hear MW5 isn't even worth it if your hope is that it can live up to MW2, 3, or 4.

Also, STOP TRYING TO KICK PLAYERS OUT!!!! The constant rhetoric of "go play the trash game because the boys club doesn't like you" is toxic, and has no place in this game. We're talking about fixing THIS game. MW5 is a different game altogether, with its own massive let downs by the same people who made MWO into a letdown.

I'm not trying to kick anyone out. Your completely unfun, unintuitive, overly convoluted "improvements" is what will kick players out. Actually no kick them out isn't accurate. It will cause many of the remaining population to quit.


You are the only one talking about the suggestions you keep putting forward. There is no "we are" there, it is just you. You must be vacuum or something. Looking through all the threads your opinions are not remotely close to even accepted, let alone receiving mass agreement or furtherance of conversation.

There is nothing "toxic" about the vast majority of people saying that your ideas are barking up the wrong tree and will ruin the game for them. It could be perceived that you are actually being the toxic one by continually claiming things that are completely untrue.


I can only say that thankfully none of them would come to fruition. In all the podcasts and Devlogs it's been clear things won't head in that direction. I sleep well at night knowing the days of PGI making whack decisions like you keep putting forward - are long gone.

Also "Toxic" was the 2019 gamer buzz-word that was continually used out of context. It is almost 2022 please find a new one.

[C337Skymaster]

pattonesque, on 15 October 2021 - 08:03 PM, said:

"I am going to stop playing this game unless you make it so that aim doesn't matter at all, because otherwise that is Call of Duty to me"

"well there's a game for you that exists already"

"stop trying to drive me out "

I never said to make it so aim doesn't matter. I specifically said "no randomness". I keep calling for fire to not converge, but to fire predictably straight ahead. This would actually make leading a target EASIER since your projectile will always follow the same path and won't change direction as it tries to converge on the crosshairs instead of the target.

I'm not going to MW5 any time soon, and even when I finally do: I've spent a LOT of money on MWO. I'm not giving up on fixing this game (which needs more work since the weapon patch, rather than less), and I'm not leaving it permanently. You're not getting rid of me. The more you screw things up, the louder I'll call for things to be fixed properly. I won't just quietly disappear and let you ruin what little is left of this game.

[JOATMON Incorporated]

Wait, are these the final quirks for the new Hunter mechs?

PXH-7S: NEW HUNTER PACK VARIANT
15% Jump jet burn duration
-25% fall damage
10% standard laser range
STD and ER medium laser HSL +1
20% PPC family velocity
+21 Armor bonus on LA, RA
+7 Structure bonus on CT, LA, RA
+6 Structure bonus on LT, RT, LL, RL
20% target info gathering speed

and


STK-7D: NEW HUNTER PACK VARIANT
+18 on LT, RT
+6 armor on CT
20% PPC family velocity
-5% Laser heat

Or are these just quirks that were changed near the end with the patch and there are different quirks also on them?
Looking at the Phoenix Hawk I could see these being all the perks, but that is what the stalker is really going to have?

[Gas Guzzler]

JOATMON Incorporated, on 15 October 2021 - 08:22 PM, said:

STK-7D: NEW HUNTER PACK VARIANT
+18 on LT, RT
+6 armor on CT
20% PPC family velocity
-5% Laser heat

Looks like it checks out to me.

9 torso mounted energy hardpoints and a 350 engine cap. Sounds legit.

[denAirwalkerrr]

C337Skymaster, on 15 October 2021 - 08:19 PM, said:

I'm not going to MW5 any time soon, and even when I finally do: I've spent a LOT of money on MWO. I'm not giving up on fixing this game (which needs more work since the weapon patch, rather than less), and I'm not leaving it permanently. You're not getting rid of me. The more you screw things up, the louder I'll call for things to be fixed properly. I won't just quietly disappear and let you ruin what little is left of this game.

Good, keep wasting your time getting angry on forums with wrong opinions that will be never adressed by PGI because they are thankfully listening to people who know what they are doing for once in last 8 years. We really appreciate that.

[Sereglach]

Still no flamer changes at all, over all of these patches ... while I'm thoroughly disappointed, it just saves me any desire to spend money.

Anyway, according to this post, here, Mark said the PXH would be following proper arm hardpoint priorities from the original concept and actual PXH lore now ... yet that doesn't appear to be the case in the screenshots for this patch. Has that changed? Was it unable to happen for some reason? For clarity, on the stock loadout, the only handheld laser should be the single LPL in the right arm, with the other lasers in the forearms (first hardpoint in the forearm, then handheld).