333 replies to this topic

[DAEDALOS513]

Titan Prometheus, on 21 October 2021 - 11:09 PM, said:

While I appreciate the efforts to re-work this map, Viridian Bog needs a complete re-work, not a patch like it's currently had.

Viridian Bog is hand's down the worst map right now. It's virtually impossible to play as an assault (and I am no noob) and is completely geared towards mediums and lights. There is too much foliage, not enough cover, and visibility is too poor. The map itself is completely one-dimensional, with limited strategies that each team can employ.

PGI, please continue to re-work this map.

Come oooooooooooon............ it's a bog.. it's supposed to look like that.. do we really want all the maps to look and play the same? Once you gain enough experience and learn how the enemy moves, you will start to use the terrain to your advantage and you'll likely change your mind.

I feel even polar original (by far not my favourite) should stay in rotation just for the mere fact that it was the only one with such a uniquely flat surface. I honestly had more memorable brawls on polar original (when the team worked together) than any other map. This game suffers from lack of fresh content and so should keep all the original maps in rotation.

Besides, isn't that why we have map selection voting?

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 22 October 2021 - 03:40 AM.

[Charles Sennet]

Staude, on 21 October 2021 - 09:26 PM, said:

on the one hand I don't care about QP, on the other hand, the mech balance does not play such a big role in the QP as in the FP, because I can use both sides but if I don't value this mode (FP) it looks a little different

As we get into the comp semis and finals, It'll be interesting to see what percentage of mechs are IS vs Clan. High level comp play (and to some extent Solaris 1-v-1 where IS mechs dominate most division leaderboards and have since inception) is the true indicator of faction balance. Lets see what happens. Can't argue with facts.

Edited by Charles Sennet, 22 October 2021 - 05:26 AM.

[P H O T O N]

DAEDALOS513, on 22 October 2021 - 03:39 AM, said:

Come oooooooooooon............ it's a bog.. it's supposed to look like that.. do we really want all the maps to look and play the same? Once you gain enough experience and learn how the enemy moves, you will start to use the terrain to your advantage and you'll likely change your mind.

I feel even polar original (by far not my favourite) should stay in rotation just for the mere fact that it was the only one with such a uniquely flat surface. I honestly had more memorable brawls on polar original (when the team worked together) than any other map. This game suffers from lack of fresh content and so should keep all the original maps in rotation.

Besides, isn't that why we have map selection voting?

More experience!? I said I was no noob and you can check yourself - check the rankings. I've been playing this game on and off since it's release. You try playing Bog in an assault mech and tell me if you enjoy the experience.

It is not about learning how the enemy team moves (the meta-game if you will), it is simply about not being able to protect all sides in an assault. In an assault one can't reposition easily, and there are simply no good defensible positions for assaults in Bog. In Bog the mediums and lights appear behind you, to the side of you, above you, and shoot you with PPCs from across the map when you can't even see them. They then run away and you can do NOTHING about it.

I offer my feedback for the good of the game. Bog is an awful map to play for assaults - which makes the map poor. All other maps are much more balanced for all mechs.

Edited by Titan Prometheus, 22 October 2021 - 08:17 AM.

[John Bronco]

Charles Sennet, on 22 October 2021 - 05:15 AM, said:

As we get into the comp semis and finals, It'll be interesting to see what percentage of mechs are IS vs Clan. High level comp play (and to some extent Solaris 1-v-1 where IS mechs dominate most division leaderboards and have since inception) is the true indicator of faction balance. Lets see what happens. Can't argue with facts.

Also interested in this, I'm hoping to see more clan representation than in the past due to the strength of cERLL and Timby and Gyr being best heavies in the game.

Edited by John Bronco, 22 October 2021 - 08:45 AM.

[Roodkapje]

-Ramrod-, on 15 October 2021 - 04:01 PM, said:

If you're going to continue to redo maps please do not touch Tourmaline Desert, Grim Plexus, Alpine Peaks. Most of the feedback I see concerning these redo maps is negative. HIGHLY negative. Anywhere from Tier 5 to Tier 1 players are voicing this. Everything else in the patch seems to be alright though.

I don't know what that feedback was but :
- Tourmaline Desert is a seriously annoying "Get stuck everywhere!" and "Get shot by some annoying ER PPC camper somewhere up high!" map!
- Grim Plexus still has that terrain texture bug for about 5 years now!
So how about we FINALLY fix that one ?!
- Alpine Peaks...
I don't have one positive word for that map so whatever can be done : Let's do it!

Navid A1, on 15 October 2021 - 04:31 PM, said:

The 3xHPCC aspects that were iconic with mechs like AWS-8Q, and other mechs with not so concentrated hardpoint locations.

I have tried playing that one and it sucks heatwise so if anyone has any good advice : Please share!

Quote

That said, everything is up for tweaking... for example... HPPC is planned to get some help with its heat next month.

Looking forward to that one!

Quote

Personally, out of the maps that have gone through overhauls, Canyon has turned out to be good (some minor additions are needed, but overall I like it)

Polar change was very nice. Map now has actual recognizable and practical features. Brawlers won't feel useless anymore

HPG rework in my book is a masterpiece of a map now.... And I mainly play brawlers. 100/100 on that one to the map designer, especially since that map was not easy to edit.

Caustic I have mixed feelings... I've been in matches that I felt helpless, and also been in matches that felt good and action packed.

Disagree with all except for Caustic : That map was crap and is now 50% crap!

I miss old Canyon!
I miss old Polar!
And I don't miss old HPG but do want both versions in the rotation with the High Walls marked as outbound area's !!!

Quote

regarding KGC-001 It will allow you to fire 2xERPPCs and 2xGauss rifles with no heat penalty.

Sounds good! I like the King Crab family!

[Aivazovsky]

Charles Sennet, on 22 October 2021 - 05:15 AM, said:

As we get into the comp semis and finals, It'll be interesting to see what percentage of mechs are IS vs Clan. High level comp play (and to some extent Solaris 1-v-1 where IS mechs dominate most division leaderboards and have since inception) is the true indicator of faction balance. Lets see what happens. Can't argue with facts.

You don't have to wait. I'll tell you right now: 50/50. Some maps have a bias towards IS 60% (cause COM, FLE and Vulcan)

The IS as a whole has more chassis and tactical flexibility, which is why we sometimes see them more often. But this does not mean that IS OP. Some players need to stop making excuses. The problem is personal skill... and you know this, Charles, because you and Staude play on the same mechs, but makes a completely different impact). [Redacted]

Edited by GM Patience, 22 October 2021 - 12:45 PM.

[Charles Sennet]

Aivazovsky, on 22 October 2021 - 09:01 AM, said:

You don't have to wait. I'll tell you right now: 50/50

Can you share the actual data please?

Aivazovsky, on 22 October 2021 - 09:01 AM, said:

Some maps have a bias towards IS 60% (cause COM, FLE and Vulcan)

That alone says something doesn't it?

Aivazovsky, on 22 October 2021 - 09:01 AM, said:

The IS as a whole has more chassis and tactical flexibility, which is why we sometimes see them more often. But this does not mean that IS OP.

Having more choices and flexibility benefits IS, true.

Aivazovsky, on 22 October 2021 - 09:01 AM, said:

Some players need to stop making excuses.

I'm not making excuses. I'm asking for data.

Aivazovsky, on 22 October 2021 - 09:01 AM, said:

The problem is personal skill...

I agree skill decides the vast majority of matches but faction balance should still be a concern for people making quirk and weapon decisions. The issue I have is the Cauldron's own self-admitted lack of concern for faction balance.

Aivazovsky, on 22 October 2021 - 09:01 AM, said:

and you know this, Charles, because you and Staude play on the same mechs, but makes a completely different impact).

Not sure what you mean by this.

Aivazovsky, on 22 October 2021 - 09:01 AM, said:

[Redacted]

Insults are not necessary. I'm not attacking you. I'm trying to have a civil discussion.

[Nightbird]

Play some IS in FP once in a while and after being pounded in the ground by "hard data" maybe you'll understand why Clans are fine.

[XDevilsChariotX]

Giving the Commando more armor was a ridiculous mistake!

[pattonesque]

XDevilsChariotX, on 22 October 2021 - 12:06 PM, said:

Giving the Commando more armor was a ridiculous mistake!

Commando has like no firepower, all it has going for it is survivability

[justcallme A S H]

Charles Sennet, on 22 October 2021 - 10:12 AM, said:

Can you share the actual data please?.

The data is public.

Go to CompQ.
Click match results from known top teams.
Look at mechs used.


There is really nothing wrong with Clan in FP. I've played plenty of it past few months. As I said pages ago, go to the mechlab and learn/understand the changes. Bringing the "same old" when the game has completely shifted and then saying it doesn't work... Well...

Edited by justcallme A S H, 22 October 2021 - 12:56 PM.

[Charles Sennet]

justcallme A S H, on 22 October 2021 - 12:53 PM, said:

The data is public.

Go to CompQ.
Click match results from known top teams.
Look at mechs used.


There is really nothing wrong with Clan in FP. I've played plenty of it past few months. As I said pages ago, go to the mechlab and learn/understand the changes. Bringing the "same old" when the game has completely shifted and then saying it doesn't work... Well...

justcallme A S H, on 22 October 2021 - 12:53 PM, said:

The data is public.

Go to CompQ.
Click match results from known top teams.
Look at mechs used.


There is really nothing wrong with Clan in FP. I've played plenty of it past few months. As I said pages ago, go to the mechlab and learn/understand the changes. Bringing the "same old" when the game has completely shifted and then saying it doesn't work... Well...

I'm aware of that resource. I recall that there were stats compiled someplace but perhaps that was for prior tournaments. Do you know if a similar statistical compilation will be done once this tournament is over?

I never said it doesn't work but decisions made for the lens of QP affect FP and I'm hoping for more thought around balance from the Cauldron is all.

There is a perception forming among many FP players, true or untrue, that the Cauldron has an IS bias. Quirking Tier 1 chassis such as the Stalker, Warhammer, and Commando and the fact this patch had a lot more quirks for IS mechs than Clan adds to this perception.

Overall the Cauldron has done a fantastic job of injecting new life in the game and I'm very appreciative of their work.

[Nightbird]

Charles Sennet, on 22 October 2021 - 01:10 PM, said:

There is a perception forming among many FP players, true or untrue, that the Cauldron has an IS bias.

Only amongst Clan players that refuse to play IS mechs.

Not surprisingly, IS players that refuse to play Clan mechs say the opposite.

Edited by Nightbird, 22 October 2021 - 01:20 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Nightbird, on 22 October 2021 - 01:19 PM, said:

Only amongst Clan players that refuse to play IS mechs.

Not surprisingly, IS players that refuse to play Clan mechs say the opposite.

As has been the way of FP players and units since the dawn of time.

[justcallme A S H]

Charles Sennet, on 22 October 2021 - 01:10 PM, said:

There is a perception forming among many FP players, true or untrue, that the Cauldron has an IS bias. Quirking Tier 1 chassis such as the Stalker, Warhammer, and Commando and the fact this patch had a lot more quirks for IS mechs than Clan adds to this perception.

As we've seen from this and other patch note threads...

These individuals very, very clearly just have no idea what they are talking about. I mean yeah that sounds harsh but there isn't anything other way to sugar coat it.

The arguments put forward are completely flawed and one-eyed. The arguments are broken down and explained and then said users disappear until next month patch note thread and bring up the same or similar points again and so the cycle continued.

The fact is Clan is NOT weak at all. Clan side has plenty of extremely strong mechs/builds and a huge abundance of PPFLD at 800m+. Clan Laser Vom is also extremely strong (my view is too strong)... And Laser Vom has always been a solid staple for Clan in FP. You can pack 65-70/80+ laser Alphas on many Mechs. IS you're tapping out around the 50-55pt mark most of the time.

The issue I see if that most players are still running 6 month old META. Now while that is still reasonable, there is a lot more on the table they are simply not using. That is not the Cauldrons fault and all the players fault for bring their completely blind bias into it.

Everyone is "OMG the commando was buffed", have people actually looked at WHAT was buffed on the commando for instance? The arms, the arms which always get blown off in the variants in question. All some see is "omg commando buffs, cauldron hates Clan"... It's just ridiculous.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 22 October 2021 - 02:04 PM.

[Charles Sennet]

Hmm... not that you would know anything about me but I'm a student of all the changes being made. Doesn't matter -- a lot of words and deflection here but still no explanation on why this patch was so heavily in favor of IS mechs (including T1's) and so light on Clan changes.

Anything but answer a simple question it appears.

I'm really just attempting to bring up some concerns. Concerns many others share but who feel its a waste of their time to bother sharing. But instead of engaging in a civil discussion, anyone who makes comments that are slightly perceived as a criticism or contrary to way they see things faces personal attacks which others pile onto.

This is an exercise in futility. When the Cauldron started they said they welcome everyone's feedback. Evidently that's no longer the case (if it ever was).

No more balance comments from me will appear in these forums. Its pointless. And go on thinking the Commando's hitboxes are perfectly fine. LOL

You win. GG

[DAEDALOS513]

Charles Sennet, on 22 October 2021 - 02:39 PM, said:

Hmm... not that you would know anything about me but I'm a student of all the changes being made. Doesn't matter -- a lot of words and deflection here but still no explanation on why this patch was so heavily in favor of IS mechs (including T1's) and so light on Clan changes.

Anything but answer a simple question it appears.

I'm really just attempting to bring up some concerns. Concerns many others share but who feel its a waste of their time to bother sharing. But instead of engaging in a civil discussion, anyone who makes comments that are slightly perceived as a criticism or contrary to way they see things faces personal attacks which others pile onto.

This is an exercise in futility. When the Cauldron started they said they welcome everyone's feedback. Evidently that's no longer the case (if it ever was).

No more balance comments from me will appear in these forums. Its pointless. And go on thinking the Commando's hitboxes are perfectly fine. LOL

You win. GG

Well spoken...

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 22 October 2021 - 03:07 PM.

[Commoners]

The trash heap variants of a chassis getting significantly buffed doesn't mean that the t1 variants that are actual good mechs are getting significant buffs.

[Aivazovsky]

Charles Sennet, on 22 October 2021 - 02:39 PM, said:

Doesn't matter -- a lot of words and deflection here but still no explanation on why this patch was so heavily in favor of IS mechs (including T1's) and so light on Clan changes.

Anything but answer a simple question it appears.

IS chassis 65 / Clans 42... really hard to understand ... forget it, it's just a Cauldron conspiracy against Clans

[Tarl Cabot]

John Bronco, on 22 October 2021 - 08:45 AM, said:

Also interested in this, I'm hoping to see more clan representation than in the past due to the strength of cERLL and Timby and Gyr being best heavies in the game.

?? Clan mechs have been the primary go-to since PGI started the MWOCCS in 2016, and at least the finals saw 1-3 IS mechs/match. The only exception of when only IS mechs were allowed in the 2018, and it PGI made it stock IS mechs... Wolfhound was a favorite IS light mech, with the oddball urbie/flea.