125 replies to this topic

[MW Waldorf Statler]

When im resumee the last Matches , it was not the other team was the Problem , it was the stupidity and Egoplayer Mentality of the own Mates thats make the win for the other Team to a easy ...Minimap....Press R ...play good Universal Builds ...fight and Move..not fight in small Places...when damaged, fall back and fight from the second position...start fights in long distance ...not fight in Max Zoom -all Lostech

Do think groups dominate the QP? Build your own group and test this argument ... and you will see - a group with bad or inexperienced players has lost to 4 experienced solo players
[color=#202124]whoever needs constant communication and guidance is not a good team player and will always lose to people who can play blindly and deaf with each other[/color]

What evidence do the "group break the QP" have that groups dominate the QP? In the last few months I haven't found 4 people there with the same day as in FP4 - there is only a colorful mix of group members, and of course most of them have all played together or against each other and everyone has the know-how blindly dominating the cannon fodder fwith every other experienced player without any communication, it's like a bunch of professional athletes from all over the world competing against a school group. So far I've only heard conspiracy theories about one's own failure and unwillingness to learn and change tactics or

To think about what is important for teamwork and not only t for your own statistics or your own favorite and mostly bad style of play (Brawl / LRM / Sniper only).



Thats not a YXZ Shooter who one guy alone can have the Kills , without Teamwork and thinking and handle like one Man.Figthing alone of a Target and the Mate ignored it ,and you dead ;ignore the Minimap and you dead, ignore the other Mates and Targets and focus to a Single target and you dead ,Press not R and the Team can you not help ..you dead.

And not each game is perfect for each casual player, its give games thats not make for me or you.Thats why im not Play Battle Royal Mode in COD MW
[color=#202124]whoever needs constant communication and guidance is not a good team player and will always lose to people who can play blindly and deaf with each other[/color]

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 25 October 2021 - 02:40 AM.

[Pika]

Guys, the game is on it's last legs.

Let people play with their friends without having to go 100% try hard all of the time, before the last PvP MW game goes kaputt, yeah?

Solo queue is fine.

Edited by Pika, 25 October 2021 - 04:26 AM.

[pbiggz]

Gustav Kuriga, on 24 October 2021 - 10:28 PM, said:

Imagine killing FP, the most interesting group-centered game mode, to try and save group queue instead of, you know, making groups in solo be max of 2 and letting FP be the new group queue.

Faction Play is a completely different game mode with far longer matches and a much higher barrier to entry for everyone involved both in terms of coordination and literal mechs. It also has far more problems right now than you act like it does, so forcing groups into it specifically, still, amounts to a soft ban for group players.

Gustav Kuriga, on 24 October 2021 - 10:28 PM, said:

Also gotta love the guys making assumptions about the makeup of groups based on anecdotal evidence or flat out supposition to support their "groups don't hurt QP" argument, then claiming that the other side is using opinion as fact.

Man this is some rich hypocrisy.

There is statistical (not anecdotal) evidence that supports the argument that groups don't harm the queue in any substantial way. The claim that this argument is entirely anecdotal is a fabrication and you know it.



Since some of you don't seem to be internalizing this, let me make it abundantly clear.

This game gets about a thousand concurrent players at peak hours. That's not a big pool. That is a very fragile population. Major shocks to that population can, and will harm this game, likely irreparably.

This game already basically died once, and came back. That is miraculous, games like this usually never get a second chance. We will not get a third, so soft banning the game's most active users just so Gustav Kuriga will think he can more comfortably win matches, is not a good tradeoff for literally threatening the continued existence of this game.

Edited by pbiggz, 25 October 2021 - 04:59 AM.

[DaZur]

Groups/teams have made QP tolerable...

In their absence QP was a mish-mash of self-serving individuals with zero ambition beyond their own self-interest.

Communication and coordination is fundamental to a team win, otherwise it's a crap shoot.

I am a single player but I'm not so obtuse to believe teams are ruining the single-player experience.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Yeah... groups used to not be in quick play queue. But now they are. And engine de-sync happened, ghost heat was implemented, and, and ...

Can we just play the game as it currently exists and quit pining for some imagined good old days? They have a suggestion forum, go blow THAT up.

[VeeOt Dragon]

honestly i think its more that groups killed the Match Maker no so much the mode. the MM just isn't able to properly calculate groups into the equation. sort of mucks up the works when a group of 4 (say 2 T-4s, a T-5, and a T-1) is then put in T4 games. that T-1 player is going to clean house and devastate the other team just because they are far more skilled or have just played long enough to know the maps/mechs a bit. its not so much the groups in QP but the Comps in QP that ruin if for those that just want to have some big stompy robit fun. now if they could fix the MM to properly take into account the groups and also get rid of alt accounts then we have some progress (i add in the bit about alts because i have heard of may a t-1 player that makes an alt just to go seal clubbin, not something we need if we are to retain new players to a game that already has a steep learning curve)

[ScrapIron Prime]

VeeOt Dragon, on 25 October 2021 - 03:51 PM, said:

honestly i think its more that groups killed the Match Maker no so much the mode. the MM just isn't able to properly calculate groups into the equation. sort of mucks up the works when a group of 4 (say 2 T-4s, a T-5, and a T-1) is then put in T4 games. that T-1 player is going to clean house and devastate the other team just because they are far more skilled or have just played long enough to know the maps/mechs a bit. its not so much the groups in QP but the Comps in QP that ruin if for those that just want to have some big stompy robit fun. now if they could fix the MM to properly take into account the groups and also get rid of alt accounts then we have some progress (i add in the bit about alts because i have heard of may a t-1 player that makes an alt just to go seal clubbin, not something we need if we are to retain new players to a game that already has a steep learning curve)

Agreed. Its population that is hurting matchmaking, its the reason we don't have separate queues, the wait would be too long.

Everybody gets past the velvet rope when there's nobody in line.

[justcallme A S H]

VeeOt Dragon, on 25 October 2021 - 03:51 PM, said:

honestly i think its more that groups killed the Match Maker no so much the mode. the MM just isn't able to properly calculate groups into the equation. sort of mucks up the works when a group of 4 (say 2 T-4s, a T-5, and a T-1) is then put in T4 games. that T-1 player is going to clean house and devastate the other team just because they are far more skilled or have just played long enough to know the maps/mechs a bit. its not so much the groups in QP but the Comps in QP that ruin if for those that just want to have some big stompy robit fun. now if they could fix the MM to properly take into account the groups and also get rid of alt accounts then we have some progress (i add in the bit about alts because i have heard of may a t-1 player that makes an alt just to go seal clubbin, not something we need if we are to retain new players to a game that already has a steep learning curve)

Yes Paul didn't say it would take the group average IIRC. It would match based on highest tier in the group.

Fact is we've tested and it absolutely takes the average across the group so it can cause quite the issues,

It can also lift them up if you have 2 x T1 and a couple T4s, the T4s end up in T1 matches. Issue goes both ways and for that - there kinda isn't a solution that fixes both issues.

[Nightbird]

Don't forget teams killed Faction Play and Solaris!!!

[LordNothing]

Nightbird, on 25 October 2021 - 05:04 PM, said:

Don't forget teams killed Faction Play and Solaris!!!

1v1 killed solaris. i cant imagine a mode more boring than that. it is neither what anyone wanted or asked for. and those bolt ons, they didn't get them right till we got elementals.

Edited by LordNothing, 25 October 2021 - 06:39 PM.

[Black Caiman]

LordNothing, on 25 October 2021 - 06:38 PM, said:

1v1 killed solaris. i cant imagine a mode more boring than that. it is neither what anyone wanted or asked for. and those bolt ons, they didn't get them right till we got elementals.

I think 1v1 could have its place, but I think it all needed to be done tournament style. Instead of having S7 just open all the time they should have just done monthly or quarterly 1v1, 2v2, or 3v3 elimination tournaments. That would make it more exclusive and thus more of an event. Just like how the NFL only has 16 games so they matter more than an MLB game because their are 162 of those.

[Tarl Cabot]

ScrapIron Prime, on 25 October 2021 - 05:39 AM, said:

Yeah... groups used to not be in quick play queue. But now they are. And engine de-sync happened, ghost heat was implemented, and, and ...

Can we just play the game as it currently exists and quit pining for some imagined good old days? They have a suggestion forum, go blow THAT up.

Hmm.. 8vs8 was also mixed, it was not only a solo queue. Link to a thread about going back to 8vs8, etc. When MWO went to 12vs12 and allowing more than one size in the Group queue, PGI furbar it. The intention was to allow 4-man or less normal Quick Play and also in the group queue but for approximately a week it wasnt working because 12-man was dropping in the normal quick play queue, but instead of fixing it they removed groups completely from that queue.

Even back then, with Elo MM the biggest issue was the advantage grouped players had since they were almost always on VOIP. VOIP was not added to MWO until 1st quarter 2015.... even after Community Warfare (aka FP) had gone live the previous Dec 2014....

Anyhow, the link below has links to the initial threads, updates, etc. As for FP being 8vs8... Look at the MWOWCS first.. how much quicker would a match end with spawn camping...? And even if it was part of a series of ramp up for a world, in a similar vein to Scouting, I do not see PGI making an investment in engineers for it,, especially since PGI is simply treading water and not actively promoting FP.

https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__6409173

[MW Waldorf Statler]

solution, learning ...learning and adapt Tactics or quit and play mW5 against Bots and not a PvP Game

its give harsher PaytoWin PvPs like the old SWTOR or all the world of XYZ

here its only the will for it the Barriere to bring better Matchs, forget the own "Im will play Brawl/LRM/Sniper " only style ...a Shadowcat with 98% and only 2 xLRM 15 as last Mech in the Own Team ,with 2sub 150dmg ist more a problem as 2xT1 in the other team , like Players thats suicide or AFK when the Map is not for her special own playstyle

Quote

[color=#959595]I do not see PGI making an investment in engineers for it,, especially since PGI is simply treading water and not actively promoting FP.[/color]

its give no Engineers fand coders or the old Cry3 Engine by the Jobmarket since Years ...thats like to find a Guy thats speak the old Celtic Language in Japan

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 25 October 2021 - 10:13 PM.

[LordNothing]

Black Caiman, on 25 October 2021 - 07:33 PM, said:

I think 1v1 could have its place, but I think it all needed to be done tournament style. Instead of having S7 just open all the time they should have just done monthly or quarterly 1v1, 2v2, or 3v3 elimination tournaments. That would make it more exclusive and thus more of an event. Just like how the NFL only has 16 games so they matter more than an MLB game because their are 162 of those.

before we had solaris, my idea would have been a 16 player match. the maps would be sub divided into walled off hexes and in each hex would be 2 players. the game starts with a round of duals. once those end (or after a set amount of time), some of the walls between hexes are retracted exposing the survivors to each other. this goes on until you are down to your last pair of players. there would be no repair between rounds. round 2 fights with whatever damage they had at the end of round 1. also each round more of the map is available for fighting.

it could work without needing to introduce more teams assuming you could reassign teams during the match. however if you could (just put everyone on the red team, lol) you can also spice things up by dropping the walls at timed intervals instead, such that if you completed your dual and the guys next door haven't, the walls can drop and you can go shoot at both of them. another variation is to use a drop deck and you get a different mech for each round.

also kind of wanted some kind of mode with an open arena ffa with royal rumble rules, where as long as there is room a mech drops every minute or so whether or not the previous mechs are still fighting. the point of the game is to rack up as many kills as you can before you die. whoever has the longest streak at the end of the week gets a prize.

i think the best short term solution would be to do 4v4 to replace the now defunct scouting mode. but solaris needs a one click mm solution that allows randoms to play the group modes. people are lazy and want a fight now button, even fp has one even if no-one uses it. condense the divisions into fewer buckets. you could use the larger solaris maps or some of the classic maps.

there are lots of ways they could have gone to make it interesting. seven buckets of nothing was not the way to do it.

Edited by LordNothing, 25 October 2021 - 10:48 PM.

[Curccu]

LordNothing, on 25 October 2021 - 06:38 PM, said:

1v1 killed solaris. i cant imagine a mode more boring than that. it is neither what anyone wanted or asked for. and those bolt ons, they didn't get them right till we got elementals.

Well some asked, some played (I played and it was fun with opponent of similar skill) What killed it IMO was bad interface and other stuff not the fight itself.

[LordNothing]

Curccu, on 25 October 2021 - 10:40 PM, said:

Well some asked, some played (I played and it was fun with opponent of similar skill) What killed it IMO was bad interface and other stuff not the fight itself.

i was pretty enthusiastic about it when it dropped. but it just didn't have any staying power.

[Gagis]

Solaris might be salvageable if 2v2 was removed and 1v1 divisions combined into 3 or 4 maximum instead of 7.

[Mochyn Pupur]

Nightbird, on 25 October 2021 - 05:04 PM, said:

Don't forget teams killed Faction Play and Solaris!!!

Actually, it was certain units/teams damage farming, seal clubbing, spawn camping and not taking objectives as a win solution that caused the most damage in faction play . . .

Solaris was always going to be a flash in the pan, however, I like your sarcasm with that one

[Curccu]

Gagis, on 25 October 2021 - 11:10 PM, said:

Solaris might be salvageable if 2v2 was removed and 1v1 divisions combined into 3 or 4 maximum instead of 7.

or at least possibility to queue as many divisions as you want simultaneously...
but other issues and too small playerbase that invalids the matchmaker totally (if just 2 players in queue no matter how great skill difference it will match them)

[Curccu]

PeppaPig, on 26 October 2021 - 01:29 AM, said:

Actually, it was certain units/teams damage farming, seal clubbing, spawn camping and not taking objectives as a win solution that caused the most damage in faction play . . .

Solaris was always going to be a flash in the pan, however, I like your sarcasm with that one

And every other seal whining that teams killed CW because they did only objectives and didn't fight. So is killing enemies to last mech (both teams probably get some CB) or playing objective and rush it in 5 mins (only attacker get something rly) bad thing?