91 replies to this topic

[Maj Destruction]

I'm still a flailing newbie. For some reason, there's an unusual amount of LRM boats out tonight. I've had several rounds where I barely get to see the enemy before they LRM-spam me into oblivion. It sucks. I hate dealing with them, and I hate using them myself.

Just about to buy a light with stealth and AMS and run around shooting missiles down for my team....bah.

Matt

[martian]

Maj Destruction, on 02 December 2021 - 01:54 AM, said:

I'm still a flailing newbie.

That's nothing to be ashamed for.

Maj Destruction, on 02 December 2021 - 01:54 AM, said:

For some reason, there's an unusual amount of LRM boats out tonight. I've had several rounds where I barely get to see the enemy before they LRM-spam me into oblivion. It sucks.

Every MWO 'Mech (with maybe one exception) can mount at least one AMS, so do it. Put at least one AMS with 1 or 1¹/₂ ton of AMS ammo on your 'Mechs. Laser AMS can be an interesting alternative on some 'Mechs, because although it produces additional heat, it requires no ammo.

Some 'Mechs can carry 2, 3 or even four AMS.

Many 'Mechs can mount ECM system. Use it to make it more difficult for enemy LRM boats.

Always look for enemy UAVs and shoot them down, whenever you see them.

Look for enemy spotters (usually some light 'Mechs) and kill them or drive them away.

And of course, use terrain and buildings to break enemy LRM locks and hide behind them.

Maj Destruction, on 02 December 2021 - 01:54 AM, said:

I hate dealing with them, and I hate using them myself.

Once you grow accustomed to enemy LRMs, they will turn into "mild annoyance".

As for "I hate using them myself" ... Why? Unless some challenge explicitly call for their use, why would you use a weapon system that you hate?

Maj Destruction, on 02 December 2021 - 01:54 AM, said:

Just about to buy a light with stealth and AMS and run around shooting missiles down for my team....bah.

Matt

If you have a (Stealth) light 'Mech (or you are about to buy one), the best you can do is to get behind the enemy team and backstab those enemy LRM boats, if possible. They are usually parked well behind the enemy team.

[Meep Meep]

Maj Destruction, on 02 December 2021 - 01:54 AM, said:

Just about to buy a light with stealth and AMS and run around shooting missiles down for my team....bah.

Matt

Kitfox c would probably fit the bill.

The Lurminator

Edited by Meep Meep, 02 December 2021 - 02:48 AM.

[chaosshade2638]

use the Radar Deprivation skill nodes, 60% is a godsend.
If you don't want to invest in skill nodes, find a safe area and shut down for five seconds, that's enough time to clear enemy lock and let them find someone else to shoot at, lol

[Tarl Cabot]

Part of his issue is likely due to running slow Assaults (most of his drops are Assaults). Then use of AMS/Radar Deprivation or not? Still learning terrain/pathing, situational awareness, etc. even after a few months of play. Use of faster heavies or even mediums would allow faster travel from or to get behind one piece of cover since Assaults can be very unforgiving, good and bad.

And as for using LRMS, learn when to use them without getting a lock, and actively get your own locks. Do not depend on others to get those locks for you which means do not stay so far behind the core of your teammates, keeping an eye on the minimap, anticipating which way they are moving. Also unlock your torso to allow the arm crosshairs further range of movement on, even if it just up/down.

[PocketYoda]

Maj Destruction, on 02 December 2021 - 01:54 AM, said:

I'm still a flailing newbie. For some reason, there's an unusual amount of LRM boats out tonight. I've had several rounds where I barely get to see the enemy before they LRM-spam me into oblivion. It sucks. I hate dealing with them, and I hate using them myself.

Just about to buy a light with stealth and AMS and run around shooting missiles down for my team....bah.

Matt

Once you progress up the tiers apparently they disappear some what.. LRMs in tier 5 and 4 are i agree a cancer because a lot of players use them as a crutch.. Badly.

Most AMS is pointless if you are targeted by multiple LRM boats.. And ECM isn't that great to a skilled out LRM boat designed to counter that, terrain is really your only safe area.

Edited by MechaGnome, 02 December 2021 - 04:47 AM.

[Novakaine]

Protip #1 If they can see you they can kill you.
Protip #2 If they can't see you can kill them.

[RickySpanish]

No need for stealth, regular ECM with radar deprivation and ECM skill nodes will do. Also make sure you are running the left side of the survival tree to pick up the majority of the armour hardening nodes. Seems obvious, but just in case! Next, if cover is unreachable make sure to twist your torso as the LRMs land. It can be disorienting but get good at that and you will increase your chance of survival. Break line of sight with the enemy - be sure to check for enemy Light 'Mechs who are spotting. If no enemy can see you but missiles are still raining down, check the sky for a UAV. A UAV very close to you may not show up on the radar depending on the direction you are facing. Try driving something faster, you don't need a Light, but 80 kph is much more survivable than 64 kph. Finally, try using longer ranged weapons - you want 400-500m or better for effective range like U/AC 2 - 10, PPC, Large Laser, Large Pulse Laser, Clan ER-Medium Laser etc. This will afford you more room to position to get a shot on the enemy without approaching through the open.

[martian]

MechaGnome, on 02 December 2021 - 04:44 AM, said:

Once you progress up the tiers apparently they disappear some what..

They are less common.

MechaGnome, on 02 December 2021 - 04:44 AM, said:

LRMs in tier 5 and 4 are i agree a cancer because a lot of players use them as a crutch.. Badly.

I would not say that LRMs are a cancer. They are just a weapon system of a limited usefulness. They are often used by players who have not learnt yet how to use energy and ballistic weapons effectively. They are most effective against players who do not know how to protect themselves against LRMs.

Any player can use LRMs, if he wishes to do so - it is just more and more difficult to use them successfully in higher Tiers against players who know how to mitigate their effects..

MechaGnome, on 02 December 2021 - 04:44 AM, said:

Most AMS is pointless if you are targeted by multiple LRM boats.. And ECM isn't that great to a skilled out LRM boat designed to counter that, terrain is really your only safe area.

I just say that in some LRM-heavy game I would rather drop in a 'Mech equipped with AMS/ECM than without.

[ScrapIron Prime]

chaosshade2638, on 02 December 2021 - 03:19 AM, said:

use the Radar Deprivation skill nodes, 60% is a godsend.
If you don't want to invest in skill nodes, find a safe area and shut down for five seconds, that's enough time to clear enemy lock and let them find someone else to shoot at, lol

This. 60% radar dep is awesome, and 100% is magic. With them you disappear from enemy scopes shortly after (or immediately after) breaking line of sight, which means missiles lose lock and less people are paying attention to you. Combined with good use of cover, this will minimize LRM spam without requiring special equipment on your mech (just a skill point investment).

I consider radar deprivation to be equal to investing in the survival skill tree. Getting shot less equals more armor later.

And as well stated by others, LRMs are much less of a problem in higher tiers. When opponents learn how to counter the "blind fire from the horizon" tactic, less people field them. the few that do switch to using them at shorter ranges in combination with laser fire, essentially making LRMs a kind of LBX weapon with a bit of indirect fire capability.

And you'll find that many of the "lob lurms from the horizon" players equip NOTHING BUT LRM's (or LRMs and a few token small lasers) on their mech, making them incredibly vulnerable to faster mechs that get in their face and brawl with them. When you've been suffering under LRM fire for a while, jumping someone like that feels goooooood.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 02 December 2021 - 08:05 AM.

[knight-of-ni]

I want to thank the OP for coming to the forums and framing his experience with an implied willingness to take feedback.

You did not use your recent negative experience in the game as evidence that the game must change according to your own personal expectation (that usually doesn't go well). This is an important first step, and I hope you can take some of the excellent feedback posted here to improve your gaming experience.

Edited by knight-of-ni, 02 December 2021 - 08:17 AM.

[Saved By The Bell]

What piss me of, that almost nobody uses AMS these days. No LRM can do damage against 4 guys with usual AMS.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Saved By The Bell, on 02 December 2021 - 08:40 AM, said:

What piss me of, that almost nobody uses AMS these days. No LRM can do damage against 4 guys with usual AMS.

AMS provides you, to borrow my favorite term here, free sky candy. You get cBills, match score, and of course increased durability for you and your nearby allies. even a 1 ton investment (AMS + 1/2t ammo) is worth it.

But you see the most AMS in middle tiers. Tier 5 folks are finding out the hard way that they need it, and have it equipped by the time they hit Tier 3 or 4. By Tier 1, so few people are spamming LRM's that the system is only of moderate use.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Saved By The Bell, on 02 December 2021 - 08:40 AM, said:

What piss me of, that almost nobody uses AMS these days. No LRM can do damage against 4 guys with usual AMS.

well, an AMS is 2critspaces and at least 1t worth of %stuff% many folks find a better use for.
the more you work around cover or a friendly ECM, the less you need that AMS.

and if you put said stuff (above) into offense.. well, I always prefer a good offense.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

ScrapIron Prime, on 02 December 2021 - 09:05 AM, said:

AMS provides you, to borrow my favorite term here, free sky candy. You get cBills, match score, and of course increased durability for you and your nearby allies. even a 1 ton investment (AMS + 1/2t ammo) is worth it.
[...]

This is incorrect. "Missiles destroyed" only nets Matchscore, no CBills.

[VeeOt Dragon]

as someone who plays a good deal of LRM i have to say that most of the hate is unwarranted. pretty much all the counters have been stated already so i wont go into that. the only thing i have to say is that if you are getting hit by LRM and you don't have an AMS (if your mech has a slot for one) then don't complain. as an LRM player the worst thing in a match is when you fire the first volley and you see that light show of tracers and lasers from the target area. in those cases you know its going yo be a tough match. hell just one Corsair-7A can ruin your day. even just one mount is a help, keep in mind they don't only target LRM, they target all Missile weapons so even if they aren't as effective at taking down say SRM a single AMS might cut down a couple of the missiles as long as they aren't fired from point blank range. if only half the team fielded a single AMS each then LRM would be almost useless as long as the team stuck relatively together.

as for using LRM don't fall for the "no Skill" crowd they do take certain amount of skill to use and be effective. a lot of it is learning the maps and where the high cove is. also has been said get your own locks when you can but don't be afraid to take any locks you can get. hell my favorite tactic is to stay with the team (2nd or 3rd line) firing missiles over the heads of my team to add to their firepower. they can also be a great way to stunt an enemy push or get enemy mechs to back off even if not all of them hit due to AMS or cover. you also never really want to boat all LRM without some sort of backup even if its just a pair of MLs (i know not much but its something for when they are inside your min range or you run out of ammo, MLs are nice because there is a bit of overlap so you can fire lasers and missiles). Beagle Probes and TCs are also a good investment. as TCs can decrease the amount of time it takes to gt your lock, if you have the extra ton then a TAG can be handy for direct fire since it negates ECM. i honestly don't think Artemis is worth the added tonnage and slots though since they nerfed the **** out of it a few years back (it only really tightens your spread and then only for direct fire, it used to decrease lock time if i remember right in addition to decrease spread in both direct and indirect fire.). also don't forget the targeting related skill nodes if you can afford it (honestly could use some skill nodes that decrease lock time but that might just be me).

[martian]

Saved By The Bell, on 02 December 2021 - 08:40 AM, said:

What piss me of, that almost nobody uses AMS these days. No LRM can do damage against 4 guys with usual AMS.

Well, if I drop into the game with the expectation - based on my previous experiences - that I will be facing enemy 'Mechs mostly armed with Clan Ultracannons (Mad Cat Mk. II), laser-vomit 'Mechs (Stalker) or Gauss boats (Fafnir), then it makes sense for me to remove AMS from my 'Mech in favour of more armour or heat sinks.

[w0qj]

A warm welcome to our MWO forums!

Understand your frustration from LRM damage and even LRM'ed to death...
My personal advice is for you (heavy/medium/light) to stick with a fellow player who has ECM and/or AMS, until brawling starts. Oh, and don't run around on open ground, but this applies to all weapons, not just LRM's.

As other MWO'ers have already given tons of advice, may I provide the perspective as a player who enjoys LRM boats in T4/T5 (I was the one mentioned in this forum summer'2020 for running various LRM Assaults... and being flamed...).

As a LRM boat player:

1) It is fast becoming frustrating as a LRM boat player to play in T4/T5 anymore, because there are lots more ECM mechs nowadays (especially ECM Urbanmech, ECM Dire Wolf, ECM Timber Wolf). Hard to get LRM lock anymore.

2a) Loss of LRM map (read: old Polar Highlands which was basically one flat map).
All MWO maps nowadays have lots of nearby shelter to avoid LRM.

2b) Yes, other players' advice helps here! (Read: LRM shelter, AMS, ECM, Radar Dep skill nodes, etc.)
Also, forget about Stealth Armor unless you are running Pirates' Bane, as Stealth Armor opportunity cost too high IMHO.

3) LRM and especially ATM damage actually did not keep up with the Cauldron patches April'2021 and onwards,
simply because energy and ballistic weapons got much more of a buff. Clan ATM basically lost its IDF (indirect flight) damage capability. I now run LRM on Clans too.

4) Do try to play some LRM boats (Archer, Stalker, Nova Cat, Mad Dog), and you will quickly see that it's downright frustrating to play LRM boat !

5) Again, my personal advice is for you (heavy/medium/light) to stick with a fellow player who has ECM and/or AMS, until brawling starts. Oh, and don't run around on open ground, but this applies to all weapons, not just LRM's!

Edited by w0qj, 02 December 2021 - 10:06 AM.

[Saved By The Bell]

You know, I was playing King Crab with 1 AMS recently. It looks like dish from above. Being LRMed I couldnt hide, so I tried to run to close teammates. Nobody had AMS...

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 02 December 2021 - 10:14 AM.

[martian]

w0qj, on 02 December 2021 - 09:54 AM, said:

...
5) Again, my personal advice is for you (heavy/medium/light) to stick with a fellow player who has ECM and/or AMS, until brawling starts. Oh, and don't run around on open ground, but this applies to all weapons, not just LRM's!

⯅ A pretty good advice. If you do not have your own AMS or ECM, stick with the 'Mech that has it and stay within his protective "bubble".