36 replies to this topic

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

I was asking myself once again if artemis brings benefits to lock-on times of
streak short range missles (ssrm).
so i equipped ssrm´s w/o artemis, ssrm´s with artemis, ssrm´s + lrm´s w/o atemis,
ssrm´s + lrm´s with artemis and lrm´s only w/o and with artemis.
long story short, interestingly in all cases the lock-on time is with line of sight 2 seconds
and without line sight 3 seconds.
So to sum this up, artemis isnt any beneficial to lock-on time for ANY weapon system

cf@_@t7 cheers

[martian]

Unequip Streak SRMs and use regular SRMs. They will serve you better.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Artemis doesn't improve lock on time, no. You want a Beagle or Active Probe for that. What Artemis does improve is missile spread when in line of sight.

[FupDup]

Artemis lost the ability to boost lock-on times a long time ago. It was done so that Streaks wouldn't benefit from it since they didn't have to pay tonnage or slots like LRMs and SRMs do (it was a completely free upgrade with no downsides).

[caravann]

FupDup, on 05 November 2021 - 12:36 PM, said:

Artemis lost the ability to boost lock-on times a long time ago. It was done so that Streaks wouldn't benefit from it since they didn't have to pay tonnage or slots like LRMs and SRMs do (it was a completely free upgrade with no downsides).

Do not see the logic behind it, Streak and SRM-artemis are different weapons. There are both types available to equip.
What artemis is doing is removing SRM and replace it with SRM artemis. It means you can not have both SRM and LRM-artemis.

Still, I do not see why this was nerfed to the ground. A LRM boat won't be good at SRM boating for the reason that AMS is exponential with every mech next by equiped with one that it turns into a half of an artillery with one foot in another role it only want to use if there are no other better options. SRM maybe have decent damage but it is also exponential based on amount of SRM since it is a spread damage gun and not a single action. It is also the case that the community been burrowed the use of lasers as backup weapons as the ammo based guns have enough ammo to keep on firing for 30 minutes. The artemis makes the SRM heavier today but it is the case that Streak has different cooldown that the synergy between different weapons are pratically nonexistent and the best thing to do is stacking one kind of weapon to create a combined target scan. This means that ammo conserving stacking of srm6+srm4 will only make your mech weaker because they have different cooldowns. same goes at stacking LRM + SRM.

[FupDup]

caravann, on 05 November 2021 - 02:21 PM, said:

Do not see the logic behind it, Streak and SRM-artemis are different weapons.

Old Artemis used to boost lock-on times for ALL lock-on weapons. For LRMs the mechlab made you take Artemis LRMs/SRMs that took more tonnage and slots, but Streaks on the other hand gained the lock-on benefit without paying any tonnage or slots. Streaks got to have their cake and eat it too.

Since the game can't differentiate between an SSRM lock-on and an LRM lock-on, PGI just removed the lock-on boost altogether so that Streaks didn't get free lunch.

[w0qj]

I have a number of LRM boats, and all of them are standardised on Artemis-LRM.
And I try to carry BAP (Beagle Active Probe) where possible to counter nearby ECM foes as well.

Faraway ECM foes can cause much longer lock-on times, to the point that regular LRM is almost unusable on ECM foes or ECM protected foes IMHO.

Artemis-LRM can quickly lock onto line-of-sight ECM foes and ECM-protected foes!
Once locked onto ECM foes, even after they run to hide behind a rock, you still have a brief window of lock time and you can still fire at locked-on ECM foe with no line of sight!
It's very useful in this regard!

That's why my LRM boats are all standardised on Artemis-LRM, which is slightly heavier and cost more critical slots.

For example:
Marauder MAD-4HP: LRM100 ==> Artemis-LRM90
Archer Tempest: ARC-T: LRM40 ==> Artemis-LRM30

Anecdotal damage & kills tells me clearly that Artemis-LRM does much better than standard LRM despite its slightly reduced LRM throw weight, now that even more ECM foes are out there now (ECM Dire Wolf... cough... ECM Timber Wolf...)

Edited by w0qj, 06 November 2021 - 02:50 AM.

[LordNothing]

this is a fine example of old information mingling with new information and confusing the hell out of everyone. there was once a time when artemis and tag helped streaks. and does bap actually help lock times? targeting computers? you know this is part of the reason why i prefer unguided srms over ssrms and mrms over lrms.

[Thorqemada]

Imo TAG > Artemis as it only takes 1 Ton/Slot per TAG (you only need one) instead an additional Ton/Slot per every Missile Launcher and they dont stack.
TAG would make the Beagle Active Probe also somewhat redundant and you can generaly free up some Tons/Slots you can use for ammunition or weapons or armor etc.

[justcallme A S H]

LRMs with Artemis and Line of Sight are brutal. That is when Artemis pays off for LRMs

For SRM6s, you generally want Artemis also as the spread reduction is worthwhile.

[martian]

justcallme A S H, on 06 November 2021 - 04:59 AM, said:

LRMs with Artemis and Line of Sight are brutal. That is when Artemis pays off for LRMs

The problem is that a half of MWO Lurmers camps about 1000 metres behind the front line and prays that somebody holds the locks for them, so they can fire indirectly.

[LordNothing]

i wonder how pgi/the cauldron/the playerbase would feel about updating the game wiki with new and up to date information. frankly the whole thing is a stub in dire want of up to date and useful information. as far as i can tell nobody but pgi has write access to the thing, changing this would be good for the game and npe.

i think the best bet would be to open it up to everyone and give all the cauldron members moderator status.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 November 2021 - 05:11 AM.

[Mochyn Pupur]

FupDup, on 05 November 2021 - 12:36 PM, said:

Artemis lost the ability to boost lock-on times a long time ago. It was done so that Streaks wouldn't benefit from it since they didn't have to pay tonnage or slots like LRMs and SRMs do (it was a completely free upgrade with no downsides).

SSRM already has a built in weight/slot penalty compared to similar sized SRM, so not sure where you are going with this statement

[caravann]

PeppaPig, on 06 November 2021 - 05:16 AM, said:

SSRM already has a built in weight/slot penalty compared to similar sized SRM, so not sure where you are going with this statement

Application logic

lock-on mechanic controls the tracking speed.

Makes me question if artemis is still making good effects on streaks or if this has changed. Artemis reduce the spread on the missiles, it is question about how they made it, if it is simply asking for the "missile class" change this and fin. If it was the case that artemis is changed for every type of gun then how exactly is SRM working, is it just changing the localization ( the words, description) or is it a new gun and not a wolf in dresscoat.

[ScrapIron Prime]

PeppaPig said:

1636204567[/url]' post='6433662']

SSRM already has a built in weight/slot penalty compared to similar sized SRM, so not sure where you are going with this statement

Checking the “Artemis” box on the mech enables the behavior, because that’s the game code. SRM and LRM launchers then weigh more, but SSRM launchers do not… but still benefit from the logic that selecting “Artemis” applies. Hence the nerf.

[martian]

LordNothing, on 06 November 2021 - 05:08 AM, said:

i wonder how pgi/the cauldron/the playerbase would feel about updating the game wiki with new and up to date information. frankly the whole thing is a stub in dire want of up to date and useful information. as far as i can tell nobody but pgi has write access to the thing, changing this would be good for the game and npe.

i think the best bet would be to open it up to everyone and give all the cauldron members moderator status.

That would be a good idea, but I am afraid that such endeavour would die due to general disinterest sooner or later.

After all, the first version of exactly such Wiki died years ago.

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

w0qj, on 05 November 2021 - 06:04 PM, said:

I have a number of LRM boats, and all of them are standardised on Artemis-LRM.
And I try to carry BAP (Beagle Active Probe) where possible to counter nearby ECM foes as well.

Faraway ECM foes can cause much longer lock-on times, to the point that regular LRM is almost unusable on ECM foes or ECM protected foes IMHO.

Artemis-LRM can quickly lock onto line-of-sight ECM foes and ECM-protected foes!
Once locked onto ECM foes, even after they run to hide behind a rock, you still have a brief window of lock time and you can still fire at locked-on ECM foe with no line of sight!
It's very useful in this regard!

That's why my LRM boats are all standardised on Artemis-LRM, which is slightly heavier and cost more critical slots.

For example:
Marauder MAD-4HP: LRM100 ==> Artemis-LRM90
Archer Tempest: ARC-T: LRM40 ==> Artemis-LRM30

Anecdotal damage & kills tells me clearly that Artemis-LRM does much better than standard LRM despite its slightly reduced LRM throw weight, now that even more ECM foes are out there now (ECM Dire Wolf... cough... ECM Timber Wolf...)

you missread your faster lock-on on ecm mechs.reason for faster lock-on on ecm mechs with artemis si simply because some players have ecm related skills in the skill tree not fully fleshed out, thus have an ineffective ecm cover for their
mech > against your lock-on.Test it with a pal in training room and you will see.

TLDR: faster lock-on ecm mechs isnt thnx to artemis, it is thnx to enemy has no points in ecm skill tree

justcallme A S H, on 06 November 2021 - 04:59 AM, said:

LRMs with Artemis and Line of Sight are brutal. That is when Artemis pays off for LRMs

For SRM6s, you generally want Artemis also as the spread reduction is worthwhile.

you didnt read my post pal....
all tested and refutet

Edited by 1312SHR1312, 07 November 2021 - 02:39 AM.

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

martian, on 05 November 2021 - 11:35 AM, said:

Unequip Streak SRMs and use regular SRMs. They will serve you better.

a pack of 6 ssrm x4 still gives you the better lolz on pesty lights

Edited by 1312SHR1312, 07 November 2021 - 03:00 AM.

[caravann]

I can confirm that Streak is junk, using an Arctic wolf with both SSRM and SRM, 1/2 of the time is tracking the target instead of shooting at the target. Enemy around the corner? You're done. The SSRM is working for a very situation who a skilled player already figured out. It is possible to fire away the missiles and turn around. Why would you want to do that in first place. Mostly useful on a jumpjet mech who have sensors who can see through mountains, because you need to have sensors who already locked the target and stay locked forever. Once it is locked the mech can jump up and launch the missiles. It means that not only do you need streak but you'll need every blunt knife in the kitchen to pull it off with Narc, active probe or a scout looking at the target and a uav. Then we have the cheap option - SRM , you do not need anything, any skill points into sensors, no active probe, no uav, no scouting. The IS mechs, they have active probes weight of 1 whole ton. The only thing that could be used against is jumping mechs, then every single jumping mech is inferior to any mech who has no jumping capability as those jumpjets cost tonnages. But wait how do we balance this? Oh yes we make streak heavier! So why are we using streak, to hit the center! But then is an ac10 able to hit the center? Yes! Why aren't we using ac10? Because it weight more! Are streaks hitting the center? No! Then why are we not using an ac10? Because, because... It makes things explode! Like it does when an ac10 hits the ammo bin? Yes!

[Verilligo]

1312SHR1312, on 07 November 2021 - 02:41 AM, said:

you didnt read my post pal....
all tested and refutet

You got the wrong take-away from his post, partly because he wasn't specific enough with what he meant. Artemis doesn't help with lock-on times. At one time it did, but it no longer does for ANY missile system. It DOES still help with decreasing spread... when in line-of-sight or if the target is TAG'd/narc'd, if my memory of the change is correct. No LoS/TAG/Narc? Artemis is completely useless. What does help with lock-on times is proximity and LoS. If you're closer to the target and have LoS on them, lock-on times go down drastically compared to longer range or being outside LoS. I think active probes also help with decreasing lock-on times still, but the effect is fairly small compared to the gains from getting closer and getting your own sight on the target.