91 replies to this topic

[martian]

Brom96, on 06 December 2021 - 11:59 AM, said:

LRMs are marginally usable. ..

They are marginally usable in Tier 1 games.

I can imagine that they are still useful in lower Tiers.

[Spetulhu]

Yes, LRMs can be a pain. But in the rookie section where I dwell just about anything can be a pain if you have no way of dealing with it.

Hell, played a game today where I brought out my 3-AMS Kit Fox and suddenly none of the enemies had LRMs, at least not anywhere I was close enough. And I really tried to run with the pack, throwing in some laser fire while letting the big guys slug it out. And I also noticed (after a few early deaths and going spectator) that many players don't bother pressing R key for "target" when they spot something to shoot at. They'll alpha their lasers/ACs and drop back in cover. No targets means your friendly neighborhood LRM boat has nothing to shoot at unless he's coming out to play himself and facetanks some direct fire while getting a lock.

[Maj Destruction]

Great discussion, thanks all for the feedback. I have gleaned some info and I think my LRM woes are abating somewhat.

Powering off....why didn't I think of that?

I was running AMS on some of my early mechs (mostly trial mechs). But once I started buying mechs, I didn't use it much, as LRMs weren't really a problem for a while. I quickly added it back in the other night when I started having all the aforementioned LRM grief. Can't really say it did much for me....I'm even thinking of ditching it to free up resources.

I skilled up on the radar dep. That's a big help....thanks for that tip! Hard to measure this empirically, but when I switched to one of my non-skilled mechs, the LRM slaughter returned. I'm maxing out radar dep on all my builds now.

I still need to learn terrain cover and situational awareness better.

I did have one round tonight where the AMS was flying every which way, but LRMs were still eating our lunch. Speaking of which, tonight was awful....in 5 rounds I had only one team victory, and I didn't survive any of them. First 3 rounds I got all my weapons blown off quickly (which is unusual), fourth one I fell behind the group and got picked off by two guys that were themselves separate from their group, final round me and another guy were snooping around trying to flank the enemy.....we were too slow/far, our team got annihilated in a humiliating 10-1 slaughter, of course we two loners didn't last long once we got to the battle. Even my ol' reliable Marauder IIC Scorch was getting torn apart (I can usually count on a decent round with that build, I've had some 800+ damage rounds with it), very low damage done, downward pilot ranking on EVERY SINGLE ROUND. Last night wasn't much better. Feels like I'm regressing....maybe time to step away for the week.

To be totally honest, I must admit that I do see the potential tactical utility of LRMs, and how it could make the game more interesting. At this stage though, they just feel "unfun". I might take the advice here and do a bit of LRM boating myself just to learn their weaknesses.

Matt

Edited by Maj Destruction, 06 December 2021 - 11:13 PM.

[martian]

Maj Destruction, on 06 December 2021 - 11:12 PM, said:

Great discussion, thanks all for the feedback. I have gleaned some info and I think my LRM woes are abating somewhat.

There were some good advices in this thread.

Maj Destruction, on 06 December 2021 - 11:12 PM, said:

Powering off....why didn't I think of that?

The point is to power down and power up again a few seconds later. Not power down and wait five minutes - you should not stay behind the team.

Maj Destruction, on 06 December 2021 - 11:12 PM, said:

I was running AMS on some of my early mechs (mostly trial mechs). But once I started buying mechs, I didn't use it much, as LRMs weren't really a problem for a while. I quickly added it back in the other night when I started having all the aforementioned LRM grief. Can't really say it did much for me....I'm even thinking of ditching it to free up resources.

We have not been in your games, so we can not judge it. However, AMS is a relatively light device that works automatically and it can mitigate some LRMs. Of course, single AMS can not do much, if you are being targeted by multiple LRM boats with 80 tubes each.

You do not have to equip it, of course, but then do not complain about LRMs if you did not do even this simple thing.

Maj Destruction, on 06 December 2021 - 11:12 PM, said:

I skilled up on the radar dep. That's a big help....thanks for that tip! Hard to measure this empirically, but when I switched to one of my non-skilled mechs, the LRM slaughter returned. I'm maxing out radar dep on all my builds now.

Well, it depends on your playstyle. Once you learn proper positioning and lose your fear from LRMs, maybe you will find out that you can uncheck those nodes and unlock cooldown or agility nodes because you will need them more.

Maj Destruction, on 06 December 2021 - 11:12 PM, said:

I still need to learn terrain cover and situational awareness better.

Very important skills.

Maj Destruction, on 06 December 2021 - 11:12 PM, said:

I did have one round tonight where the AMS was flying every which way, but LRMs were still eating our lunch. Speaking of which, tonight was awful....in 5 rounds I had only one team victory, and I didn't survive any of them. First 3 rounds I got all my weapons blown off quickly (which is unusual), fourth one I fell behind the group and got picked off by two guys that were themselves separate from their group, final round me and another guy were snooping around trying to flank the enemy.....we were too slow/far, our team got annihilated in a humiliating 10-1 slaughter, of course we two loners didn't last long once we got to the battle. Even my ol' reliable Marauder IIC Scorch was getting torn apart (I can usually count on a decent round with that build, I've had some 800+ damage rounds with it), very low damage done, downward pilot ranking on EVERY SINGLE ROUND. Last night wasn't much better. Feels like I'm regressing....maybe time to step away for the week.

There is a very important skill: Learning from your own mistakes.

You should ask "What did I do wrong?" and avoid it in your next games. I am saying it because not playing for a week and then returning to the game while doing those same mistakes again would solve nothing.

Maj Destruction, on 06 December 2021 - 11:12 PM, said:

To be totally honest, I must admit that I do see the potential tactical utility of LRMs, and how it could make the game more interesting. At this stage though, they just feel "unfun". I might take the advice here and do a bit of LRM boating myself just to learn their weaknesses.

Matt

Run what you wish, but remember: Every game spend in LRM boat means that your gunnery skill atrophies a bit.

[ShadowSpirit]

Maj Destruction, on 02 December 2021 - 01:54 AM, said:

I'm still a flailing newbie. For some reason, there's an unusual amount of LRM boats out tonight. I've had several rounds where I barely get to see the enemy before they LRM-spam me into oblivion. It sucks. I hate dealing with them, and I hate using them myself.

Just about to buy a light with stealth and AMS and run around shooting missiles down for my team....bah.

Matt

Just came back from a break. LRMs in particular are bad. They were always bad against good teams but they're now particularly bad due to all the AMS / ECM.

Bring your own TAG / NARC / etc. There is so very little incentive to bring a scout these days for the sole purpose of spotting. You just don't get awarded for it as I think you should. You can cause all kinds of havok on the battlefield spotting and still lose rating because the rating system sucks.

Edited by ShadowSpirit, 07 December 2021 - 06:26 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

ShadowSpirit, on 07 December 2021 - 06:26 AM, said:

Just came back from a break. LRMs in particular are bad. They were always bad against good teams but they're now particularly bad due to all the AMS / ECM.

Bring your own TAG / NARC / etc. There is so very little incentive to bring a scout these days for the sole purpose of spotting. You just don't get awarded for it as I think you should. You can cause all kinds of havok on the battlefield spotting and still lose rating because the rating system sucks.

to be blunt: the 'rating system' still rewards it too much; a "scout" as in "I do nothing buth bring a Tag/Narc and run around willy-nilly" does exactly NOTHING in QP, and should be rewarded as such.
now, things are different with a group on comms and/or in faction. but we're talking QP here, where you literally don't know what the other 23 bring.
-so you bring something useful, something that is not dependent on others, something that does well on it's own.
bringing said tag/narc-raven or whatever is shooting yourself in the foot, and you know it before the match starts.
it also shoots your team in the foot, and you know it. so.. just don't do that

[ShadowSpirit]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 07 December 2021 - 07:24 AM, said:

to be blunt: the 'rating system' still rewards it too much; a "scout" as in "I do nothing buth bring a Tag/Narc and run around willy-nilly" does exactly NOTHING in QP, and should be rewarded as such.
now, things are different with a group on comms and/or in faction. but we're talking QP here, where you literally don't know what the other 23 bring.
-so you bring something useful, something that is not dependent on others, something that does well on it's own.
bringing said tag/narc-raven or whatever is shooting yourself in the foot, and you know it before the match starts.
it also shoots your team in the foot, and you know it. so.. just don't do that

The value should come from enabling teammate damage and disabling ECM.

This seems to be a very solo centric opinion.

[ShadowSpirit]

ECM and AMS are strong right now and they're incredibly common. Missile boats will always be situational.

• It's generally bad to stand way outside of the fray and just LRM. You will attract lights and they will probably kill you.
  
• LRMs are fire support and you can dumb fire them. You do not need a lock. Stick with your assault mechs and pepper any large frame , slow mech.
  
• LRMs do not require line of sight. If your ally has a hard lock punish any mech that's out of position.
  
• Do not bring an assault mech as LRM boat. I would also discourage use of heavy as LRM boat. The team usually needs armor up front. The best LRM boats in the game are probably mediums and that style of play fits the weight class perfectly.
  
• Some suggestions.
  
  • Cougar* - 2 LRM 20s + ECM + AMS
    
    • It's slow as hell. Keep your front line in ECM, provide AMS coverage. Pure support build.
      
    • COU-PRIME chassis, COU-H head, COU-E arms. Before skills: -10% missile heat, -15% missile cooldown before skills
  • TREB-M - 3 LRM 15s, fully spec'd for target retention
    
    • You can't get a lot of speed or mobility if you bring 3 LRM 15 but you can constantly chain fire. This is one of the best LRM boats - ton for ton - in the game by far, no question. It has tremendous quirks.
      
    • -25% LRM 15 cooldown, -20% missile heat generation, +100 NARC range, +10% missile velocity before skills
  • MDD-PRIME - 2 LRM 20 Artemis, 4 small pulse
    
    • -20% missile cooldown, -10% pulse laser heat gen, +10% missile velocity, -10% missile spread before skills

There are other mechs out there such as archer or catapult but I don't play them much. The mechs listed above seem to give the good bang for the buck. There are a number of artic wolf builds out there that make good use of missiles.

Edited by ShadowSpirit, 07 December 2021 - 09:22 AM.

[martian]

ShadowSpirit, on 07 December 2021 - 06:26 AM, said:

Bring your own TAG / NARC / etc.

If you are running some LRM boat: TAG - yes. NARC Beacon - maybe.The weapon itself weighs 2-3 tons (Clan/IS). Then 1-2 tons of ammo. Those tons and slots could go (and maybe should go) directly into your LRMs and LRM ammo.

ShadowSpirit, on 07 December 2021 - 06:26 AM, said:

There is so very little incentive to bring a scout these days for the sole purpose of spotting. You just don't get awarded for it as I think you should. You can cause all kinds of havok on the battlefield spotting and still lose rating because the rating system sucks.

What about the combination of scouting and actually killing enemy 'Mechs? Would not that be even better for your team than just passive observation of enemy 'Mechs?

Do you think that just looking at enemy 'Mechs is some special piloting skill that deserves PSR rise?

ShadowSpirit, on 07 December 2021 - 06:26 AM, said:

Bring your own TAG / NARC / etc. There is so very little incentive to bring a scout these days for the sole purpose of spotting. You just don't get awarded for it as I think you should. You can cause all kinds of havok on the battlefield spotting and still lose rating because the rating system sucks.

What about deploying in some actually combat worthy BattleMech such as the Black Knight?

You can help your team by personally killing enemy 'Mechs AND you can "cause all kinds of havok on the battlefield spotting" on top of that - and without losing your PSR.

Is not this a better solution? Two kills AND eight spotting assists?

ShadowSpirit, on 07 December 2021 - 07:50 AM, said:

The value should come from enabling teammate damage and disabling ECM.

Competent LRM player can get his own locks.

ShadowSpirit, on 07 December 2021 - 07:50 AM, said:

This seems to be a very solo centric opinion.

It is a realistic opinion. If you drop solo in the QP queue, you can never know what your team mates will run on their 'Mechs and on what map will you drop. Dropping in TAG/NARC spotter 'Mech if you do not know whether there will be just one friendly LRM boat ....

[ScrapIron Prime]

martian, on 07 December 2021 - 09:00 AM, said:

What about the combination of scouting and actually killing enemy 'Mechs? Would not that be even better for your team than just passive observation of enemy 'Mechs?
Do you think that just looking at enemy 'Mechs is some special piloting skill that deserves PSR rise?

I have 8 heavy machine guns and I am scouting the HELL out of this guy with them!

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 07 December 2021 - 01:58 PM.

[martian]

ScrapIron Prime, on 07 December 2021 - 01:57 PM, said:

I have 8 heavy machine guns and I am scouting the HELL out of this guy with them!

That Loyalty Viper?

[ScrapIron Prime]

martian, on 07 December 2021 - 02:05 PM, said:

That Loyalty Viper?

Smells like a scout mech to me!

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

ScrapIron Prime, on 07 December 2021 - 03:29 PM, said:

Smells like a scout mech to me!

my kind of scout

[martian]

ScrapIron Prime, on 07 December 2021 - 03:29 PM, said:

Smells like a scout mech to me!

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 07 December 2021 - 04:08 PM, said:

my kind of scout

I believe that the correct term is "Reconnaissance-in-force".

[Freddie Merc]

ScrapIron Prime, on 03 December 2021 - 06:20 PM, said:

...AMS, and the ammo doesn’t explode so you can put it anywhere.

Interesting! First time I hear this. Why would that be?

[Saved By The Bell]

AMS ammo doesn’t explode NOW.

[martian]

Freddie Merc, on 10 December 2021 - 09:49 PM, said:

Interesting! First time I hear this. Why would that be?

So that MWO players are not afraid to put AMS with its ammo on their 'Mechs.

[w0qj]

AMS ammo (both IS & Clan) does not explode anymore, as per MWO/Cauldron patch dated April 2021:

https://mwomercs.com...400-20april2021

https://mwomercs.com...auldron-changes

Freddie Merc, on 10 December 2021 - 09:49 PM, said:

Interesting! First time I hear this. Why would that be?

[VeeOt Dragon]

first for the OP, i'm glad that you have left the LRM hate group. its good to see. Glad that the advice has helped

as an LRM player i beg to differ on no Heavy class LRM boats. the Catapult and Archers make some excellent LRM platforms. as for Assaults i rarely put LRM on one and never as primary weapon system (the only assault i have LRM on is my STK-3FB with 2 ER LLs, 2 MLs and 2 LRM-30)

IDF is one of the lovely things about LRM, yeah get your own locks when you can but you can add to the firepower in a choke piont with them by standing behind you teammates and arching fire over their heads. LRM are indeed a "support weapon" but that doesn't mean you can't be aggressive with them.

[martian]

VeeOt Dragon, on 11 December 2021 - 12:39 PM, said:

IDF is one of the lovely things about LRM, yeah get your own locks when you can but you can add to the firepower in a choke piont with them by standing behind you teammates and arching fire over their heads. LRM are indeed a "support weapon" but that doesn't mean you can't be aggressive with them.

I am okay with LRMs supporting the team from right behind the frontline.

Bu I hate seeing a LRM boat parked three grid squares behind the team, firing LRMs ineffectively on 1000 m.