GoodTry is getting some of the specifics of their complaint wrong, but I get the general idea, and I actually agree in spirit. MWO is already a punishing attrition game, and having big PPFLD alphas makes small mistakes even more punishing. This isn't necessarily a big deal at high levels of play where people have lots of ways to punish each other's mistakes on both a tactical and strategic level. But it does matter more at lower levels. I've been a 4L player long before it got buffed, and was one of the loudest (or at
least wordiest) in asking for the current buffs. But I also totally understand how demoralizing it is to be in the early stages of a match, and suddenly out of seemingly nowhere, your side torso is opened and you're going to spend the rest of the match with your head down.
The game already suffers from too timid of players at lower ends of skill, and this sort of thing contributes to that effect. Its not as visible as LRMs, but it is still frustrating because it feels like you've lost before you even got to play. It seems fickle and random and it isn't fun. The fact that this isn't really the case, and that some more understanding of the game and practice can turn the situation around, doesn't make the people feeling this way feel any better because they aren't there yet. Now, of course, all this stuff is subjective and there's lots of areas where it applies other than the 4L. But just because the whole issue is fuzzy and subjective doesn't mean there isn't something to it. It doesn't mean we can't consider if 50 PPFLD alphas are actually necessary and good for the game, even if they can be countered.
The main problem with the 4L is that every aspect of it is super polarized. Its incredibly feast-or-famine because its its 100tons, its a Marauder, and its a long ranged specialist, and its a PPFLD mech.
- 100 ton mechs already succeed or fail hard based on positioning. You get it right and you can single-handedly determine the match. You get it wrong and you get picked apart and end up with 200dmg and screwed your team.
- Marauders have very polarized hitboxes and mount locations. If you face into enemy fire (especially spread fire), you can spread it easily. If you get hit from the side, especially by spread weapons, you get wrecked. If you can protect your right torso with most of your weapons well, then you can take a lot of damage before you lose firepower. If not, you get neutered fast. Etc.
- Long ranged specialists can deal damage where other cannot, and where the enemy often can't effectively return fire. But then they are vulnerable to being pushed, and have trouble fighting off fast mechs. So again, polarized results.
- PPFLD rewards good accuracy the most, but also is rougher to miss with as misses are total compared to spread weapons or lasers. And you have a long cooldown in most cases.
So its one of the most polarized mechs/playstyles there is before we even get to what the enemy does in response. If you position well and aim well and the enemy doesn't pay attention to you, its one of the nastiest farmers in the game. Conversely, if they know how to counter you properly with either counter-sniping or skirmishers, then you can easily accomplish much less before you die than even other ranged specialists could. And even if you do everything right and your enemy doesn't really counter you properly, your team can ditch you and you're screwed anyhow.
So this means that when looking at high skill players vs high skill players, especially in coordinated/group play, everything looks fine. The enemy isn't going to let you farm them as badly, but also your team won't ditch you and will cover you from skirmishers, etc. You're not going to get as many 1k+dmg games, but also much less games below ~200dmg. A lot of people in this thread saying its fine are having this experience.
On the other hand, when its lower skill players vs other low skill players, its going to feel like a lot of random dice rolling for how it performs, because it basically is. Some matches it'll go well, some it'll be crap. T5 and T4 players I know who have played it say it feels like "it does as well as everyone else lets it, and I don't feel in control at all." And in High tier vs lower tier matchups, which I occasionally end up in when grouped with lower tier friends, its an absolute farm fest unless my team just completely ditches me. Which I'm sure is no fun at all for the people on the receiving end. Yes, I would farm them in plenty of other mechs too, but it wouldn't necessarily be as bad or demoralizing.
So the question is, could it be less polarized while still being good? And would that decrease the frustration both for people playing and playing against it? I think it could be, but it'll be hard to get right, and it's probably better to just tone down the heat quirk a bit and put that time and attention into other areas for now.
If we did want it to be less polarized, do something like removing the 2nd ERPPC HSL, putting it back to 2GR+1ERPPC or 2LGR+2ERPPC. Then give it a bunch more cooldown quirks to make up for the lost DPS, velocity to make it easier to land shots with, maybe even range, and of course leave the heat quirk. It'd need to come out ahead of the current DPS, and there should be some appreciable difference between 2GR+1ERPPC and 2LGR+2ERPPC (right now the 2nd is just better. More quirks for regular gauss could put it ahead. Perhaps even Ammo.) This would also free up some weight as compared to 2GR+2ERPPC, which would allow more speed or JJ, making positioning and repositioning a bit easier. Infotech quirks like target info time or sensor range or whatever could spice it up too. You could even buff its defenses with more -crit chance so it doesn't lose weapons as quickly, or even rear armor quirks so its less vulnerable to harassment without giving up front armor. More Stealth armor quirks could give a reason to actually use it.
With these sorts of changes, the alpha would be less crushing, but it'd be easier to hit with and less punishing to miss due to lower CD. It'd have slightly higher DPS, which would help in any sustained shootout like when getting pushed or harassed, but not help that much in long range trading (although the lower CD would make misses less punishing when trading). It'd be easier to play in general due to more speed/JJ, would free up skills from Operations to put into firepower or even mobility in the case of 2GR+1ERPPC, and overall reduce how polarized the mech is. It'd be much more user friendly especially at lower skill levels and could still be good at high tiers. It'd just be difficult to get all the numbers right and not accidentally put it back in the gutter. (And if the MAD-6S got some heat quirks, it'd still give an option for a 50PPFLD sniper with its LGR+4ERPPC, but its much tougher to paly due to the heat and more firepower in the arms.)
I assume that its getting its -energy heat quirk nerfed by some amount, and that'll probably tone down how often we see it. So that'll likely be enough to end any concern due to it becoming rare again. So it'll probably be fine even with just that. But there is potentially a more optimal state for everyone.
Edited by Heavy Money, 07 December 2021 - 02:55 PM.
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Brauer, on 07 December 2021 - 09:26 AM, said:
