167 replies to this topic

[Richard Hazen]

I got to tier 3 a week or so ago, I made some progress but since then I've been experimenting with a lot of different mechs and loads and lost quite a bit and I'm slowly slipping back down towards tier 4, I have anxiety so it keeps bothering me, but do tiers actually matter at all?

Edited by Will Hawker, 06 December 2021 - 06:29 PM.

[Brauer]

Will Hawker, on 06 December 2021 - 06:29 PM, said:

I got to tier 3 a week or so ago, I made some progress but since then I've been experimenting with a lot of different mechs and loads and lost quite a bit and I'm slowly slipping back down towards tier 4, I have anxiety so it keeps bothering me, but do tiers actually matter at all?

No. What matters is that you get placed in as appropriate a tier as possible. The tier system is far from perfect, but on average T1 players will be better than T4 or T5 players. If you're not ready for T3, or T2, or T1 I don't think you're missing anything by not being there. Just keep working to improve.

[PocketYoda]

They matter in the way that allowing high tiers fight low tiers would end the game getting new players over night.

[GuardDogg]

Tiers are suppose to fit for the player. Not a rank. T1 are not the best. They just happen to get to T1, because the way they pilot. They are out for numbers. While other tiers like 2-3-4 are for tactical, mind games or just for fun. Just like going out with your kind of people. If players state T1 are to be the best or so called pro players, then it is like a ranking system. Then for sure PGI will need to change think from tiers to ranking.

** Note **
DCS doesn't have a stats. So beginner pilots are actually flying along actual pilots. Everyone is treated the same in DSC. I have encountered real F-16, F-18, that flew in Iraq, Afghanistan, and they will teach you a lesson or two. Oh yeah.

I was hoping MWO will do the same. But that is unlikely. Their is no real battlemechs. But the thought of no stats, Tiers, taught to be the best, would be awesome.

Edited by GuardDogg, 06 December 2021 - 07:16 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

GuardDogg, on 06 December 2021 - 07:11 PM, said:

Tiers are suppose to fit for the player. Not a rank. T1 are not the best. They just happen to get to T1, because the way they pilot. They are out for numbers. While other tiers like 2-3-4 are for tactical, mind games

What nonsense.

I am yet to see a T2/3/4 player that has the mechanical skill or awareness that surpasses that of a T1 player

It is absolutely a rank. If you assume people in T1 are only there because they are "out for numbers" you need to better educate yourself about Tier meaning.

[w0qj]

LOL, that's exactly what happened to me recently

Will Hawker, on 06 December 2021 - 06:29 PM, said:

I got to tier 3 a week or so ago, I made some progress but since then I've been experimenting with a lot of different mechs and loads and lost quite a bit and I'm slowly slipping back down towards tier 4, I have anxiety so it keeps bothering me, but do tiers actually matter at all?

Actually I don't care about my PSR Tiers... just here to have my mech stomping fun

Actually like to play LRM boats, but it's getting difficult to do this, with all these additional ECM mechs lately (especially ECM Urbie, ECM Dire Wolf, ECM Timber Wolf).

Edited by w0qj, 06 December 2021 - 07:26 PM.

[Heavy Money]

Tier is a rank, just not a super accurate one. And it fails to delineate between high skill level players.

The point of Tier is to avoid matching top players vs bottom players, because that's no fun for anyone. It is adequate at doing this in general, but only barely. But improving the system wouldn't accomplish much considering the size of the player population anyway.

You should ignore Tier entirely because the point is to play the game and try to do a good job. If that results in you moving up in tier, cool. If it doesn't, then you wouldn't want to anyway.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Tiers don’t matter to me much, no. But they exist for a valid reason. It allows the players with the best shooting skills, reaction time, situational awareness, and all the other qualities that go into being an excellent FPS player slowly bubble up to Tier 1. The matchmaker then keeps them somewhat separated from the players who are just starting or who aren’t as proficient at FPS play. This helps keep new players from getting farmed and serves us endless debate over whether it’s being done right.

The more positive PSR you earn each game, the quicker you bubble toward the top of the food chain. Most folks will see their progress slow as they go up, and some will stall out and hit an equilibrium somewhere around 2, 3, or 4. And there’s nothing wrong with this, it’s just the game trying to help find you matches that are to your relative ability.

I’m far from the best mech jock out there. I was at Tier 1 before a multi year hiatus, and with the PSR reset, I came back to the game last year as Tier 5. I don’t use optimized builds so while my climb to Tier 3 was rapid, I find myself tipping back and forth between T2 and T3. I could bust over that maybe by getting back into team play and running top fuel mech designs, but I don’t much care to. I’m having fun, and that’s all I need.

[RickySpanish]

There's no reward in changing tiers, what's most important is to have fun. So don't worry about it.

[Valdarion Silarius]

I'd say no. I'm always jumping around low tier 2 high tier 3. I derank when I want to experiment with new builds and try out new things. I rank up back to low tier 2 with my already proven top performing builds. To get to the top performance of your mech you have to invest all 91 points of your skill tree, with some really rare exceptional meta builds that do not rely on the skill tree. Also your teams could have a negative impact on your tier placement. Just ignore the whole system and have fun.

[GuardDogg]

justcallme A S H, on 06 December 2021 - 07:19 PM, said:

What nonsense.

I am yet to see a T2/3/4 player that has the mechanical skill or awareness that surpasses that of a T1 player

It is absolutely a rank. If you assume people in T1 are only there because they are "out for numbers" you need to better educate yourself about Tier meaning.

Many years ago, before the Tier reset, their was a lot of arguments that most pilots should not be in T1 and they were there. Myself was one of those people in those arguments and it was brutal. If Tiers is a ranking, then PGI owes us a lot, and to put us all back there. It is even a fog for new pilots (what is up there?), and they will give up in many attempts in trying to get to the next tier. Because they are not moving. They will be totally punished each round, then uninstall. Many of those pilots before the reset earned their way up to T1 and it was a struggle. I was told Tiers is not a rank, many times, to the point I had to accept it. That Tiers is suppose to be the place of your kind of piloting. If stating T1 is so called pro's, then their is totally something wrong with the tier system. I seen that scale after a few months after reset what it is like That most are in T3. Like it is giving everyone the finger. and "You been ****" behind it.

Edited by GuardDogg, 06 December 2021 - 09:22 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Years ago the system was fundamentally broken. They didn't not "earn" anything, just brute force against a broken system. What you were told then is that you are not at a true Tier 1 level... It seems your recollection is, at best, very wrong.

The system has been / was addressed (to a point) in 2020 such that now T1 only contains around 10% of the playerbase from what PGI have said.
It is a ranking system. It's just a very basic one. Tier 5 = not good players. Tier 1 = better than most.

That's about it and it doesn't break down to a granular/individual player level.

[GuardDogg]

Well, PGI made it very difficult system. Because new players are not going to move, because most of us higher, will keep them in T5. Not a fair system. It is a dirty one. One that will actually make players uninstall.

Edited by GuardDogg, 06 December 2021 - 09:43 PM.

[Brauer]

GuardDogg, on 06 December 2021 - 09:37 PM, said:

Well, PGI made it very difficult system. Because new players are not going to move, because most of us higher, will keep them in T5. Not a fair system. It is a dirty one. One that will actually make players uninstall.

What do you mean? Players start in T5. If they have sufficient mechanical skill and develop a sufficient understanding of the game and game sense they will move up. In fact in the current system players can move up and down tiers faster than in the prior system.

[GuardDogg]

Since now Tiers is a ranking system, as of today from my arguments in past, that even PGI told me Tiers is not a ranking system. PGI may as well rename Tiers to levels or stage 5 to 1.

Edited by GuardDogg, 06 December 2021 - 10:24 PM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

GuardDogg, on 06 December 2021 - 10:04 PM, said:

Since now Tiers is a ranking system, as of today from my arguments in past, that even PGI told me Tiers is not a ranking system. PGI may as well rename Tiers to levels.

You got that wrong. I guess with age, memory becomes a bit sketchy. You were told that PSR is not a reward system. It's a ranking system for matchmaking purposes.

[GuardDogg]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 06 December 2021 - 10:25 PM, said:

You got that wrong. I guess with age, memory becomes a bit sketchy. You were told that PSR is not a reward system. It's a ranking system for matchmaking purposes.

Well, not doing a search. At my age "56", you can be correct. >>> "I guess with age, memory becomes a bit sketchy." I like to be very strict to be bring in fairness for everyone. I am not seeing it in MWO. Just angry people who only think of themselves. "You should not be in Tier 1!!!" Help make that change, a better system. Not a angry, salty system. I have seen players dislike being in T1. I for sure, know why. I wouldn't want to be in T1 as well. It is a nasty place. Been there.

Edited by GuardDogg, 06 December 2021 - 10:37 PM.

[martian]

Will Hawker, on 06 December 2021 - 06:29 PM, said:

I got to tier 3 a week or so ago

Congrats!

Will Hawker, on 06 December 2021 - 06:29 PM, said:

do tiers actually matter at all?

PSR was designed for matchmaking purposes. Discussing, if "it is" or "it is not" a ranking system, is just a wordplay. I guess that we can say that T1 players have better piloting and gunnery skills than T5 players.

Will Hawker, on 06 December 2021 - 06:29 PM, said:

I made some progress but since then I've been experimenting with a lot of different mechs and loads and lost quite a bit and I'm slowly slipping back down towards tier 4, I have anxiety so it keeps bothering me.

The PSR system does not punish you. It is attempting to move you to a Tier containing players of your skill (or your general level - 'Mechs and their loadouts, tactics, etc. included).

Play the way it best suits you and let the PSR system do its job.

[justcallme A S H]

GuardDogg, on 06 December 2021 - 09:37 PM, said:

Well, PGI made it very difficult system. Because new players are not going to move, because most of us higher, will keep them in T5. Not a fair system. It is a dirty one. One that will actually make players uninstall.

That is completely false. If you do well you go up. If you do average you stay equal and if you do poorly you go down. For all intents and purposes that is fair.


New players - if they learn and improve skills - will easily rise through Tiers if they have good gameplay as they should.

If they do not have good gameplay and over time do not learn learn/develop better skills, they stay in Lower Tiers as they should.

GuardDogg, on 06 December 2021 - 10:04 PM, said:

Since now Tiers is a ranking system, as of today from my arguments in past, that even PGI told me Tiers is not a ranking system. PGI may as well rename Tiers to levels or stage 5 to 1.

You were never told this as Aidan pointed out. He clearly remembers the conversations just as I do - you are recalling them very, very incorrectly.

[martian]

GuardDogg, on 06 December 2021 - 07:11 PM, said:

Tiers are suppose to fit for the player. Not a rank. T1 are not the best. They just happen to get to T1, because the way they pilot. They are out for numbers.

Are you trying to tell us that T2/T3/T4 or T5 are better? If yes, in "what", then?

GuardDogg, on 06 December 2021 - 07:11 PM, said:

While other tiers like 2-3-4 are for tactical, mind games or just for fun.

Do you think that there is not enough tactics in the new T1?
Do you think that there is no fun in in the post-reset T1?

GuardDogg, on 06 December 2021 - 07:11 PM, said:

Just like going out with your kind of people. If players state T1 are to be the best or so called pro players, then it is like a ranking system. Then for sure PGI will need to change think from tiers to ranking.

Simply renaming "Tier" to "Levels" would make no difference. Eventually good players will rank above average players.

GuardDogg, on 06 December 2021 - 07:11 PM, said:

I was hoping MWO will do the same. But that is unlikely. Their is no real battlemechs. But the thought of no stats, Tiers, taught to be the best, would be awesome.

Without Tiers, highly skilled players would kill freshly registered players and low skilled players left and right.

GuardDogg, on 06 December 2021 - 09:14 PM, said:

Many years ago, before the Tier reset, their was a lot of arguments that most pilots should not be in T1 and they were there. Myself was one of those people in those arguments and it was brutal. If Tiers is a ranking, then PGI owes us a lot, and to put us all back there.

Many years ago - between 2015 and June 2020 - the old pre-reset PSR system was skewed heavily towards the upward PSR movement. Many low- and average-skilled players moved to T1 by the virtue of playing a lot of games and accruing PSR a bit after bit, even though skill was not so good. So in this sense they really should not had been in T1.

The old (2015-2020) PSR was just a better "experience bar" and not much more.
The new (2020-) PSR is closer to a true ranking system, since it reflects the player's skill better (although not perfectly).

The old PSR had to be changed, because it did not work. What purpose would it serve to "to put us all back there." ?

GuardDogg, on 06 December 2021 - 09:14 PM, said:

It is even a fog for new pilots (what is up there?), and they will give up in many attempts in trying to get to the next tier. Because they are not moving.They will be totally punished each round, then uninstall.

PSR movement is neither reward nor punishment.

By the way, new pilots start in T5 and thus face other pilots of a similar skill level. Who exactly is going to punish them and how? They mostly face other T5s and some T4s.

GuardDogg, on 06 December 2021 - 09:14 PM, said:

Many of those pilots before the reset earned their way up to T1 and it was a struggle.

They earned their their way in the old PSR up to T1 because they played a lot of games, not because of their high piloting and gunnery skills. And struggled, as you admitted ...

The new post-reset PSR reflects their actual skills better.

GuardDogg, on 06 December 2021 - 09:14 PM, said:

I was told Tiers is not a rank, many times, to the point I had to accept it.

In the old PSR it was mostly true. Tiers were more like experience bar, not a true rank that would show actual skill. Even PGI admitted it openly.

GuardDogg, on 06 December 2021 - 09:14 PM, said:

That Tiers is suppose to be the place of your kind of piloting.

Well, yes? I would say that it kinda works this way.

GuardDogg, on 06 December 2021 - 09:14 PM, said:

If stating T1 is so called pro's, then their is totally something wrong with the tier system. I seen that scale after a few months after reset what it is like That most are in T3. Like it is giving everyone the finger. and "You been ****" behind it.

What exactly should be wrong with it? The majority of MWO players are just average guys, not too good, not too bad. It makes sense that they are in T3 and that T3 is the largest portion of the player base.

And if you think "Like it is giving everyone the finger. and "You been ****" behind it." every time you see a player with badge, well that's your problem.

GuardDogg, on 06 December 2021 - 09:37 PM, said:

Well, PGI made it very difficult system. Because new players are not going to move, because most of us higher, will keep them in T5. Not a fair system. It is a dirty one. One that will actually make players uninstall.

You can not keep anybody in T5. If somebody is a good player, he is going to move up, no matter what you do. When he reaches his personal PSR plateau, his movements will stop (more or less) in the Tier that is the most suitable for him - even if it should be T1, if he is really good.

If he is not so good, he is going to stay in T5 or move to T4 or so. That's how the post-reset PSR was designed to work and how it usually works.