167 replies to this topic

[pattonesque]

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 02:22 PM, said:

You are going in a circle in this thread here. Typical nascaring. Repeating and what others wrote as well. I do not need to repeat my posts.

why do you lose way more often than you win even at your lower tier?

[GuardDogg]

pattonesque, on 07 December 2021 - 02:29 PM, said:

why do you lose way more often than you win even at your lower tier?

Why are you asking me this on this thread? Do you sit behind my chair, and watch? What makes you say that I do? When I do not. How about yourself. Why do you lose in a round? Is a proper question for yourself. My play style is my play, not yours. Unless you like to learn things. So, stop being embarrassing.

Edited by GuardDogg, 07 December 2021 - 02:38 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 02:33 PM, said:

Why are you asking me this on this thread? Do you sit behind my chair, and watch? What makes you say that I do? When I do not. How about yourself. Why do you lose in a round? Is a proper question for yourself. My play style is my play, not yours. Unless you like to learn things. So, stop being embarrassing.

Try looking your stats up here. https://leaderboard.isengrim.org/ Anyone can do it. Anyone can see your W/L, your KDR, and your overall player ranking season to season.

Then try looking at the stats of the people you're arguing against. Overall rank, number of games played, even percentages of games played in what weight class... which is hilarious for all those "lights are OP" threads.

That's why I go for humility in most of my posts. Anyone who wants to go back and forth with me can easily see that I'm only around 80th percentile of players but that my recent play has been better. Hardly an alpha male.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 07 December 2021 - 03:27 PM.

[GuardDogg]

ScrapIron Prime, on 07 December 2021 - 03:23 PM, said:

Try looking your stats up here. https://leaderboard.isengrim.org/ Anyone can do it. Anyone can see your W/L, your KDR, and your overall player ranking season to season.

That's why I go for humility in most of my posts. Anyone who wants to go back and forth with me can easily see that I'm only around 80th percentile of players but that my recent play has been better. Hardly an alpha male.

Ah LMAO!!!...you looked at my stats. Ignorance and salt at it's finest. Exactly my point across "embarrassing" for everyone. Specially for MWO. That Jarl's should be renamed "Personal Life in MWO stats", for everyone to see. Do you see anything in DCS for stats? Nope!...

Edited by GuardDogg, 07 December 2021 - 03:30 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 02:33 PM, said:

Why are you asking me this on this thread? Do you sit behind my chair, and watch? What makes you say that I do? When I do not. How about yourself. Why do you lose in a round? Is a proper question for yourself. My play style is my play, not yours. Unless you like to learn things. So, stop being embarrassing.

Pretty simple to see why.

You claim you can be more tactical and all thatin Lower Tiers... And yet you don't win more often.

It would be a very simple conclusion that the "tactics" you think are good quite simply, aren't. Thus all this nonsense about lower tier players being better has been found to be exactly what it is - just fake news.

You've been trying to claim all of this for years and yet have not provided a single piece of evidence to back yourself and all the publicly available evidence, even seen you in-game, proves that you are wrong.

It is OK to be wrong, just stop spreading misinformation. Misinformation that lower tiers have higher skilled players - It is just false.

[Bud Crue]

Just to provide some clarification:
Paul gave a brief summary when they did the PSR changes in 2020.

https://mwomercs.com...anges-jun-2020/

In summary back in the day the tier bar was acting as an actual XP bar by design. That's how a lot of players (myself included) ended up in tier 1, when they really should not have been. After the changes he stated: "With these new numbers in place, players performing well and winning will be able to climb out of mid tiers to higher tiers and players losing and not performing well will be dropping lower as they should." The tier system is straight up tied to performance. End of discussion.

But more importantly...

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 09:29 AM, said:

Yes, it is been told, how the PSR works, by many. And it is a dirty system. The cancel culture got their wish, because it has been destroyed. People will talk how bad it is. Like the statues been torn down, movies, and songs not to be played, I and many others will say things about it. It is worse now. The Tier system needs to be removed, or replaced with other system. It is and can be embarrassing. I been in T1, and it is a roller coaster. Not real enough for formations, tactical to have fun. T1, is Just a 4-6 min round, then the, "look at my match score and look at theirs, who did better and who didn't" and all of a sudden you are like a pro because you are in T1. Like C'mon. Like one person wrote. Just ignore, hide the tier and have fun. And that is what I am also trying to say here and it is working.

..wtf?

[Tarl Cabot]

Bud Crue, on 07 December 2021 - 03:33 PM, said:

Just to provide some clarification:
Paul gave a brief summary when they did the PSR changes in 2020.

https://mwomercs.com...anges-jun-2020/

In summary back in the day the tier bar was acting as an actual XP bar by design. That's how a lot of players (myself included) ended up in tier 1, when they really should not have been. After the changes he stated: "With these new numbers in place, players performing well and winning will be able to climb out of mid tiers to higher tiers and players losing and not performing well will be dropping lower as they should." The tier system is straight up tied to performance. End of discussion.

But more importantly...

..wtf?

I am just glad PGI didnt go with the static PSR bar that they had listed that is listed in that link. With the old bar I had been seeded high Tier 3 from the Elo, and it didnt take long to hit Tier 1. And with the original PSR bar, Tier 1 and 2 were microcosm of the entire Tier line, with players getting into Tier 2 and 1 via brute force with games played by doing JUST enough, the lowest I had found, the player had a avg 171 MS, 25k games played, and a 0.83 W/L ratio.

I like the current PSR setup, where I am ranked against the other players in the match. And I have bounced to Tier 1 and back/forth between Tiers, lowest point Tier 3. The few times I able to play as part of a group it is a definitely a dunk most of the time, unless JGX group or such is on the other side then sweating buckets!!

Again, that is okay. PSR/Tiers are used for matchmaking, but one of the issues I have is how they managed group setup. Would it be better if groups were required to field only 1 mech per weight class, then match the rest of the team up with same weight class? Groups do not have to be matched up on weight class themselves but PGI did have the solo queue matching up weight classes. Would it change some of the games? Potentially, and preventing the urbie brigades

Anyhow, I view the current tiers in Battletech terminology, Elite, Veteran, Regulars, Militia and Green. That has a better ring to it than Tier 1 vs Tier 5, yes?

And GuardDogg, fyi, I am older than you are but I definitely do not play assaults as often as you do....

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 07 December 2021 - 04:09 PM.

[Ihlrath]

I still don't really understand their PSR/match making. I recently went on a series where I just concentrated on doing the most damage I could rather than scouting/calling out/ECM coverage for others etc... and my PSR shot right up. But... I felt like kind of a tool since I wasn't helping out my team very much other than just damaging things while everyone else sorta... died. So I went back to more of a team style where I try to cover folks with ECM, do a bit more scouting/marking/UAV.

I went from averaging between 5 and 8 hundred damage a match down to 3 and 5 hundred usually and my PSR dropped like a rock. So I'm thinking PSR is mostly based on damage output? **** I don't know. I just have more fun with the team style play than the lone wolf sort I guess. But as tier is a ranking system I'm a garbage pilot. But I still have fun being a potato!

[Heavy Money]

Ihlrath, on 07 December 2021 - 04:29 PM, said:

I still don't really understand their PSR/match making. I recently went on a series where I just concentrated on doing the most damage I could rather than scouting/calling out/ECM coverage for others etc... and my PSR shot right up. But... I felt like kind of a tool since I wasn't helping out my team very much other than just damaging things while everyone else sorta... died. So I went back to more of a team style where I try to cover folks with ECM, do a bit more scouting/marking/UAV.

I went from averaging between 5 and 8 hundred damage a match down to 3 and 5 hundred usually and my PSR dropped like a rock. So I'm thinking PSR is mostly based on damage output? **** I don't know. I just have more fun with the team style play than the lone wolf sort I guess. But as tier is a ranking system I'm a garbage pilot. But I still have fun being a potato!

Yes, PSR is mostly based on damage right now. There's been lots of talk of upping the contribution of other things.
But don't forget that dealing damage also helps your team. You don't need ECM against the dead.

[Bassault]

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 02:33 PM, said:

Why are you asking me this on this thread? Do you sit behind my chair, and watch? What makes you say that I do? When I do not. How about yourself. Why do you lose in a round? Is a proper question for yourself. My play style is my play, not yours. Unless you like to learn things. So, stop being embarrassing.

I guess missing, dying and not contributing is a playstyle... but it's not some tactical genius strategy that you claim it is.

[Bassault]

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 03:27 PM, said:

Ah LMAO!!!...you looked at my stats. Ignorance and salt at it's finest. Exactly my point across "embarrassing" for everyone. Specially for MWO. That Jarl's should be renamed "Personal Life in MWO stats", for everyone to see. Do you see anything in DCS for stats? Nope!...

Look, read what Ash said. It's ok to not be good at the game, some players are older or just don't have time to play to that level of dedication. But you are just flat out wrong when you say high tiers aren't tactical and lower tier players are better... lower tier plays are in a lower skill bracket because they get less kills, deal less damage, shoot down less missiles and lose more. Dealing less damage, killing less mechs, shooting down less missiles all leads to losing. Whatever formation or method you use to fight is fine, but the end goal is to always kill your opponents or cap, which usually involves a lot of killing.

Edited by I LOVE ATLASES, 07 December 2021 - 04:45 PM.

[GuardDogg]

I LOVE ATLASES, on 07 December 2021 - 04:36 PM, said:

I guess missing, dying and not contributing is a playstyle... but it's not some tactical genius strategy that you claim it is.

Look!...I work alone "Pug". Not in pre-made's. I have my ways. Not ignorance and children who act like American housewives complaining about others. I like to stick up for those who have trouble getting ahead. The system is bad, unfair. One round today, 8 disconnects from server into mech bay. Team ended up losing, and PSR's went down. Or a disco on your team, helps ruin everyones PSR. "Could have used that assault." Think that is fair? Nope. A lot of discos happen. End up on losing teams and streaks, because being in T2-T3 and rest of my team in T4-T5, and I have to pick up the pace for them. So it ends up being 0-12 Stomp in a 4 min round and I am like one of 3 on losing side that does have a up arrow. Think that is fair, when other pilot did more effort and goes down the ladder? What happens when a player suddenly gets hit the head (headshot). What went wrong? To be honest, that pilots PSR will now go down. How does those get up, in rank when it is a losing streak. 1 step forward 2 steps back. That is how the system is, and that is my opinion and how I see it. When you do bad on a losing side, the bar will go down faster. That is the simple math in the formula. So, ignore/hide the Tier system and have fun or you will be suffering. Specially in T1.

Edited by GuardDogg, 07 December 2021 - 04:56 PM.

[pattonesque]

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 04:54 PM, said:

Look!...I work alone "Pug". Not in pre-made's. I have my ways. Not ignorance and children who act like American housewives complaining about others. I like to stick up for those who have trouble getting ahead. The system is bad, unfair. One round today, 8 disconnects from server into mech bay. Team ended up losing, and PSR's went down. Or a disco on your team, helps ruin everyones PSR. "Could have used that assault." Think that is fair? Nope. A lot of discos happen. End up on losing teams and streaks, because being in T2-T3 and rest of my team in T4-T5, and I have to pick up the pace for them. So it ends up being 0-12 Stomp in a 4 min round and I am like one of 3 on losing side that does have a up arrow. Think that is fair, when other pilot did more effort and goes down the ladder? What happens when a player suddenly gets hit the head (headshot). What went wrong? To be honest, that pilots PSR will now go down. How does those get up, in rank when it is a losing streak. 1 step forward 2 steps back. That is how the system is, and that is my opinion and how I see it. When you do bad on a losing side, the bar will go down faster. That is the simple math in the formula. So, ignore/hide the Tier system and have fun or you will be suffering. Specially in T1.

Sounds like a bad match with those disconnects. Everyone has them from time to time. How do you explain the rest of your losses? I get headshot from time to time but I win way more than I lose. Why don’t you?

Edited by pattonesque, 07 December 2021 - 05:01 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Davegt27, on 07 December 2021 - 06:51 AM, said:

any ways the people that cried and cried got PGI to change the system and since then I have not gotten anywhere near T1

Players (overall) asked for a PSR system that was based on performance not on how many games a user massed. It was pretty well accepted across the board from the threads I read.

A few people were upset as they had "earnt" that Tier 1 (AKA: massed games "mah priveldge"), however that does not make for good quality match making so harsh as it is, you just have it ignore people like that.

Davegt27, on 07 December 2021 - 06:51 AM, said:

on top of that these top players (not all top players of course) are now using there high tier status as leverage against PGI and the rest of the player base and they are on the move to change the game into want they want

example is as soon as they got control of the game they went right after streak missiles

The Cauldron is using our "tier" to "leverage" PGI and the playerbase to make the game how we want... And we only "went after" streaks? Oh boy... What kinda of outright conspiracy is that?

There were a number of big weapons balance passes

March / April / May

Regarding Streaks I have pointed this out a number of times, you are well aware of it I'm sure - read it again HERE

End of the day the Cauldrons aims have been to improve the fun and make all weapons viable. Being 1-shot in a light by a SSRM boat, wihle lights being the worst performing weight class, is not fun.

The Cauldron did not "go after streaks" at all. Please stop making sensationalist commentary that you know isn't true. Disagree - fine, but outright false commentary, not fine.

Davegt27, on 07 December 2021 - 06:51 AM, said:

bottom line everything these people touch turns to **** then they blame PGI

Where have the Cauldron blamed PGI for Cauldron balance decisions? Can you please link me to information regarding you claim?

[Ihlrath]

I don't understand people saying streaks don't work is that a high tier thing? I seem to use them to decent effect.

[Bassault]

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 04:54 PM, said:

Look!...I work alone "Pug". Not in pre-made's. I have my ways. Not ignorance and children who act like American housewives complaining about others. I like to stick up for those who have trouble getting ahead. The system is bad, unfair. One round today, 8 disconnects from server into mech bay. Team ended up losing, and PSR's went down. Or a disco on your team, helps ruin everyones PSR. "Could have used that assault." Think that is fair? Nope. A lot of discos happen. End up on losing teams and streaks, because being in T2-T3 and rest of my team in T4-T5, and I have to pick up the pace for them. So it ends up being 0-12 Stomp in a 4 min round and I am like one of 3 on losing side that does have a up arrow. Think that is fair, when other pilot did more effort and goes down the ladder? What happens when a player suddenly gets hit the head (headshot). What went wrong? To be honest, that pilots PSR will now go down. How does those get up, in rank when it is a losing streak. 1 step forward 2 steps back. That is how the system is, and that is my opinion and how I see it. When you do bad on a losing side, the bar will go down faster. That is the simple math in the formula. So, ignore/hide the Tier system and have fun or you will be suffering. Specially in T1.

So other people don't disconnect and experience bad teams, and experience disconnected teammates? It's only you? Also I often get in losing streaks and I often lose and still get that green arrow. You just aren't contributing enough. I'm sorry, you aren't tier 1 material or anywhere near it.

Edited by I LOVE ATLASES, 07 December 2021 - 05:39 PM.

[GuardDogg]

I LOVE ATLASES, on 07 December 2021 - 05:30 PM, said:

So other people don't disconnect and experience bad teams, and experience disconnected teammates? It's only you? Also I often get in losing streaks and I often lose and still get that green arrow. You just aren't contributing enough. I'm sorry, you aren't tier 1 material or anywhere near it.

Oh for heavens sake. You got to be kidding me here. Stop being no naive, stating disconnects do not happen.
Okay, yeah..It is only me (sarcasm). You are helping create salt here, and not allowing me to have my opinion. I had my opinion and let it go. Stop squirming like it isn't true. Everyone got theirs, and I got mine. Thank you. Shhh...let it go. Anyone replies after this, quoting to or about GuardDog. Has serious issues. You are skirming. Stop.

Edited by GuardDogg, 07 December 2021 - 06:03 PM.

[Bassault]

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 05:56 PM, said:

Oh for heavens sake. You got to be kidding me here. Stop being no naive, stating disconnects do not happen.
Okay, yeah..It is only me (sarcasm). You are helping create salt here, and not allowing me to have my opinion.

It's not an opinion. It's a fact. It's a fact that the tier system is working as intended. Contributing players go up, players who don't go down until they stabilize. Tier 1 players on average contribute more than tier 2, 3, 4 and 5 players. Contribution includes dealing damage, kills, destroying components, winning and destroying missiles.

Edited by I LOVE ATLASES, 07 December 2021 - 06:03 PM.

[Ihlrath]

I LOVE ATLASES, on 07 December 2021 - 06:03 PM, said:

It's not an opinion. It's a fact. It's a fact that the tier system is working as intended. Contributing players go up, players who don't go down until they stabilize. Tier 1 players on average contribute more than tier 2, 3, 4 and 5 players. Contribution includes dealing damage, kills, destroying components, winning and destroying missiles.

So mostly what I'm sensing here is just do as much damage as possible and not really worry about the other stuff? Where would the break point be? Is damage based on weight like... doing say 400 damage in a light vs an assault you'll get higher PSR boost in the light in that scenario?

[pattonesque]

GuardDogg, on 07 December 2021 - 05:56 PM, said:

Oh for heavens sake. You got to be kidding me here. Stop being no naive, stating disconnects do not happen.
Okay, yeah..It is only me (sarcasm). You are helping create salt here, and not allowing me to have my opinion. I had my opinion and let it go. Stop squirming like it isn't true. Everyone got theirs, and I got mine. Thank you. Shhh...let it go. Anyone replies after this, quoting to or about GuardDog. Has serious issues. You are skirming. Stop.

Now you're misreading things on purpose. He's specifically saying disconnects happen to everyone. Not just you. However, you're the only one who is citing disconnects for losses and for your PSR going down. I experience disconnects too, relatively often on both sides, and my win rate, which I achieve while almost always playing solo, is significantly higher than yours. Why is that?

Ihlrath, on 07 December 2021 - 06:11 PM, said:

So mostly what I'm sensing here is just do as much damage as possible and not really worry about the other stuff? Where would the break point be? Is damage based on weight like... doing say 400 damage in a light vs an assault you'll get higher PSR boost in the light in that scenario?

I wouldn't set a specific damage goal, although usually 4-500 will get you an up arrow. What you want to do is meaningfully contribute to a match within your role. If you're a sniper, set up in a position where you can lay down fire for the majority of the match. If you're a brawler, pick your moment to initiate contact carefully so you can bully the enemy. If you're a flanking light, constantly be looking for isolated enemies and take them down quickly. In all these cases the basic principle is to look for and take as many opportunities as possible to do damage to the enemy while taking the smallest amount of damage in return.

Edited by pattonesque, 07 December 2021 - 06:28 PM.