43 replies to this topic

[Meep Meep]

Bring it back into rotation along with Polar Highlands (New)?

Yea? Nay? Bacon?

[martian]

Meep Meep, on 20 December 2021 - 08:37 PM, said:

Bring it back into rotation along with Polar Highlands (New)?

Yea? Nay? Bacon?

My opinion is that PGI should keep both maps in rotation.

Let the players decide what map they want to play on. This is what the map voting system is for.

[Saved By The Bell]

You know, I play almost every day. I didnt see Polar in 3 weeks (Tier 1). So bring old maps in rotation.

3 weeks - really long. Something is wrong with this map.

Caustic - didnt see 1-2 weeks.

And Canyon, which I really hate - every day many times.

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 20 December 2021 - 11:02 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

I agree, bring it back into rotation. Yes, its a lurm love map, but Solaris is a lurm hate map, so its balanced. And other than Dominaton mode, there's no nascar on old polar highlands and battles happen everywhere.

Francois, if you could make it so there are three random spots on that map for the domination circle, it would be excellent!

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

I'd say: get it back in
if
we can get completely rid of map-voting.

polar "classic" is a giant PITA simply because we can/could vote and prepare our votes for it (aka: it's a "wrong" map that the "wrong" people vote for the "wrong" reasons, so voting really doesn't work here).


if it's purely a thing of chance then nobody can prepare for it AND more or less force it, and I'd be okay to play on polar-classic under those conditions. as boring and plain as the map is. I absolutely prefer new-polar, but that's a personal opinion I could suppress for a match or 2 per evening.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 21 December 2021 - 07:22 AM.

[Verilligo]

Old Polar deserves to remain in Hell where it belongs. It was a bad map and has always been a bad map and I feel is completely at odds with the type of gameplay PGI is attempting to promote.

Edited by Verilligo, 21 December 2021 - 03:03 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Verilligo, on 21 December 2021 - 09:34 AM, said:

Old Polar deserves to remain in Hell where it belongs. I was a bad map and has always been a bad map and I feel is completely at odds with the type of gameplay PGI is attempting to promote.

Maybe I am mistaken but “the type of gameplay PGI is attempting to promote” is medium to long range trading. Polar was excellent if not outright superior for that sort of play. Personally, while I always dreaded getting Polar (I brawl) stats-wise it was one of my better maps. Typically, matches developed as a long range peak and poke using the folds, and the devolved into a short range Nascar. While many note that it was “LRM paradise” or what have you, 90% of the time LRMs were no more prevalent or effective than any other map.

Anyway, regardless of how I personally feel about any map, I am firmly in the camp of if a map has distinctive characteristics then put it in rotation and let folks vote, or not, for it. Bring back the last iterations of Cauldron, Terra, Polar and HPG, as all four played significantly different than their current versions. Not better, not worse (imho), just different. Seems a shame to waste those resources.

[martian]

Verilligo, on 21 December 2021 - 09:34 AM, said:

Old Polar deserves to remain in Hell where it belongs. I was a bad map and has always been a bad map and I feel is completely at odds with the type of gameplay PGI is attempting to promote.

I often ran brawling builds of lasers, SRMs, MRMs, etc. and I had no problem with the original Polar Highlands.

My usual tactics was to be cautious and do not try to brawl right from the start. Usually I waited until both teams sandblasted their armor with ranged weapons and LRMs. Then I used those rolling hills to get close to lone enemy 'Mechs.

Bud Crue, on 21 December 2021 - 11:05 AM, said:

Maybe I am mistaken but “the type of gameplay PGI is attempting to promote” is medium to long range trading. Polar was excellent if not outright superior for that sort of play. Personally, while I always dreaded getting Polar (I brawl) stats-wise it was one of my better maps. Typically, matches developed as a long range peak and poke using the folds, and the devolved into a short range Nascar. While many note that it was “LRM paradise” or what have you, 90% of the time LRMs were no more prevalent or effective than any other map.

Often those Lurmers lurmed each other to the death because they considered their lurming opponents to be their primary targets.

I just watched those LRMs filling the skies above my cockpit.

Bud Crue, on 21 December 2021 - 11:05 AM, said:

Anyway, regardless of how I personally feel about any map, I am firmly in the camp of if a map has distinctive characteristics then put it in rotation and let folks vote, or not, for it. Bring back the last iterations of Cauldron, Terra, Polar and HPG, as all four played significantly different than their current versions. Not better, not worse (imho), just different. Seems a shame to waste those resources.

Cauldron or Caustic or Canyon?

[Bud Crue]

martian, on 21 December 2021 - 11:19 AM, said:

Cauldron or Caustic or Canyon?

I always do that…I meant: caustic. I always think of the center of old Caustic as “the Cauldron” and name the map accordingly (I also blame the player group “the cauldron” partly for this brain fart as well).

As for “old” Canyon I would take or leave it. Despite the changes, I don’t think “new” Canyon plays a whole lot different. To me its about the same level of distinction as the ramps added to River make it “new” or the changes to Bog make it “new”. Those “new” maps don’t play out much different than the old ones as far as I am concerned (a bit more static firing line and snipper play on “new” Bog thanks to the added plateau, but that’s about it) ) so I don’t care if they are added back or not. If others want them both in the rotation, however, I would not object.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Bud Crue, on 21 December 2021 - 11:05 AM, said:

Anyway, regardless of how I personally feel about any map, I am firmly in the camp of if a map has distinctive characteristics then put it in rotation and let folks vote, or not, for it. Bring back the last iterations of Cauldron, Terra, Polar and HPG, as all four played significantly different than their current versions. Not better, not worse (imho), just different. Seems a shame to waste those resources.

I partially disagree with that. The old Caustic and HPG not only encouraged nascar, it was the most viable strategy on each of those maps. THOSE two definitely needed to go away. They were just not flexible arenas, they shall not be missed.

Meanwhile, the old Terra Therma wasn't as bad, it encouraged choke-point gaming, which was at least somewhat unique outside of faction play. And the old Polar was really the only map of its kind. By virtue of these two bringing different play environments to the game, they really should be back in rotation as "classic" maps.

[ocular tb]

As much as I hated Polar I wouldn't mind seeing it brought back. Would like the original Caustic and Terra brought back as well.

New maps/major reworks should be additions and not replacements.

[Bud Crue]

ScrapIron Prime said:

1640117528[/url]' post='6439067']
I partially disagree with that. The old Caustic and HPG not only encouraged nascar, it was the most viable strategy on each of those maps. THOSE two definitely needed to go away. They were just not flexible arenas, they shall not be missed.

I just disagree. Old HPG was certainly NASCAR friendly, but the most viable strategy was to hold the (D5?) corner and ramp and just wait for the enemy. I suppose that doesn’t necessarily help my argument, but no one can deny that HPG played fast and brutal in a manner that was entirely distinctive from how new HPG plays; and lets not ignore that HPG was possibly thee most popular map in terms of vote frequency in the game and that ought to have counted for something imho. Same idea with old Caustic. It may have been NASCAR friendly but it was certainly distinct from new Caustic and sure as hell more popular than it. People voted for it because it was at best a distinctive and even an enjoyable playing experience and at worst, simply better than three other alternatives. Taking away that content and those choices is ill advised imho.

Edited by Bud Crue, 21 December 2021 - 12:33 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 21 December 2021 - 07:20 AM, said:

I'd say: get it back in
if
we can get completely rid of map-voting.

polar "classic" is a giant PITA simply because we can/could vote and prepare our votes for it (aka: it's a "wrong" map that the "wrong" people vote for the "wrong" reasons, so voting really doesn't work here).


if it's purely a thing of chance then nobody can prepare for it AND more or less force it, and I'd be okay to play on polar-classic under those conditions. as boring and plain as the map is. I absolutely prefer new-polar, but that's a personal opinion I could suppress for a match or 2 per evening.

So because the vote doesn't go your way you want it removed? Kinda selfish yes?

ocular tb, on 21 December 2021 - 12:20 PM, said:

As much as I hated Polar I wouldn't mind seeing it brought back. Would like the original Caustic and Terra brought back as well.

New maps/major reworks should be additions and not replacements.

I liked the original polar because it was an open easily traversable map. Lrm could be a bit nasty at times but thats just the way it goes. If lrm spam bothers someone they can leverage their ams slot and put some points into radar dep so they can break los and lose the lock.

[w0qj]

+1

Yes, please bring back the Polar Highlands Classic, like it was in Christmas 2020, which was a LRM map!

So that I can bring my LRM boats out of my virtual dusty storage!
OK, there are still a lot more ECM mechs out now as a counter (ECM Urbanmech, ECM Dire Wolf, ECM Timber Wolf...)

[PocketYoda]

Nay.. Hated it and the new polar is far superior.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Meep Meep, on 21 December 2021 - 12:59 PM, said:

So because the vote doesn't go your way you want it removed? Kinda selfish yes?

on the contrary.
a) I'm that guy who votes for terra every time it comes up, just to play on a map nearly-nobody votes for (and thus I don't ever get to play)
b.) I know all too well how easy it is to stack votes just to get a map, and I know how easily people have (ab)used that to get classic-polar on an "lets have fun and lurm them - lel" evening, (too) often.
the map is bad enough as is, but it's just annoying that you can game the voting system to lurm with a group, and mix/match your mechs beforehand accordingly. it's just bad all around on that map (hey, ever thought there might be a reason that it's gone?).

c)I'm of the firm believe that it is in the best interest of game-balance to not being able to 'stack votes' to get ~any~ map in the first place, and that we have MORE variety in maps AND BUILDS, -and thus more fun- when we let the dice-gods decide and not vote for the same few maps over and over.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 21 December 2021 - 03:58 PM.

[martian]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 21 December 2021 - 03:57 PM, said:

b.) I know all too well how easy it is to stack votes just to get a map, and I know how easily people have (ab)used that to get classic-polar on an "lets have fun and lurm them - lel" evening, (too) often.

But if you are just an ordinary solo player, you must stay stack up to 12 votes to get that one map, do I understand it right? That means that you play 11 times on a different map, always with the possibility that the other players make some unexpected choice(s) and you will lose your "stack of votes".

And there is always the possibility that after a long time of playing, stacking the votes, etc. you get that desired map ... only to find out that your team folded in the first three minutes of the game and your big plans regarding lurming came to nought.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 21 December 2021 - 03:57 PM, said:

the map is bad enough as is, but it's just annoying that you can game the voting system to lurm with a group, and mix/match your mechs beforehand accordingly. it's just bad all around on that map (hey, ever thought there might be a reason that it's gone?).

You can say it about any map in MWO: Group that take four brawler 'Mechs and votes for Solaric City, etc.

[Sjorpha]

Yeah, I like old polar better. It was an excellent map.

It was the only map with really open terrain in the game, so removing it really reduced variety. There was nothing wrong with it and I really don't understand why the changes happened.

I would remove the new polar, the changes are not well done graphically and didn't add anything really new gameplay wise either. And the same is true to some extent of the other remakes.

Much better to make new maps using existing assets like the one we just got.

[martian]

Sjorpha, on 21 December 2021 - 11:53 PM, said:

Yeah, I like old polar better. It was an excellent map.

It is a matter of opinion, if it was "excellent", but definitely it was different than many other MWO maps.

Sjorpha, on 21 December 2021 - 11:53 PM, said:

It was the only map with really open terrain in the game, so removing it really reduced variety. There was nothing wrong with it and I really don't understand why the changes happened.

I agree with you that the removal of the original map has reduced the variety of the MWO map collection.

Sjorpha, on 21 December 2021 - 11:53 PM, said:

I would remove the new polar, the changes are not well done graphically and didn't add anything really new gameplay wise either. And the same is true to some extent of the other remakes.

I would keep both maps in rotation, so the players can vote either for the original map or for the reworked map.

Sjorpha, on 21 December 2021 - 11:53 PM, said:

Much better to make new maps using existing assets like the one we just got.

The new Hellebore Outpost map is not bad.

[MechB Kotare]

I like the new one, i liked the old one. So fine by me i guess. Imo remake is a whole new map. This game needs as many different maps it can get.

Just not old canyons, and the swamps...